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Let's break this down and see if we can't have a rational conversation.

 

Taylor

--Flawed throwing mechanics - It's a no brainer that the kid is an athlete playing quarterback. Why wasn't he recruited by anyone else as a QB? He doesn't step into his throws which causes him to only use his upper body and that's why he shorts most of the deeper passes. His throwing motion is awful. Anyone who watches him throw can see it. The thing that scares me is that he continues to play this way after starting for an entire year (banged up or not) + the first 5 this year. Like Herbstreit said, he has a 3 second timer in his head when he is in the pocket. Whether the pocket is collapsing or not, after 3 seconds or so, he panics, scrambling outside and just flings up an meatball (See INT # 1).

 

--Poor decision-making in the passing department - It's not like the Badger defenders made spectacular plays to pick Taylor off, they didn't even make great plays. They simply caught the ball when Taylor threw at them. It's not like the receivers ran bad routes or couldn't catch the ball when it came their way. The WRs have stepped up so far this year and are no longer an excuse for Taylor's awful throws. Each of Taylor's 3 INTs last Saturday came from poor decision-making and for him not to learn from the INT #1 OR INT #2 really sends a message to me that the kid just isn't getting it. For those of you saying he's only a sophomore, find a different excuse. He's been in Lincoln for 3 years. He's a glorified junior starting his 2nd season at Nebraska. The biggest strides QBs make in their college careers TYPICALLY come between their 1st and 2nd season as the starter. The final season(s) are when they have the mechanics down and are just fine tuning themselves at that point. Taylor is not even close to this point.

 

--Lacks ball security when running the football/scrambling in the pocket - This is a big one. It takes almost zero skill to hold onto the football. Everyone wants to point out that Taylor is a running quarterback and shouldn't be compared to the many Pro-style QBs around the country. This is true, Taylor isn't a Pro-style QB, he's a runner, and as a running QB, you NEED, not should, NEED to be able to hold onto the football. Again, he hasn't progressed in this category at all since he stepped onto the turf against Western Kentucky over a year ago. This is a MAJOR concern with how many times he carries the ball each game. The fact that he carries the ball as much as Rex is beyond ridiculous, but that's beside the point, and not entirely his fault, but if he claims to be a running QB, you'd figure that ball security shouldn't be a concern, but it definitely is.

 

--One-dimensional runner- I know many posters have touched on this already so I won't go into much detail, but again, he is a straightforward runner and not too much more. He can't juke anyone and he doesn't break many tackles. He obviously can accelerate as well as anyone in the country (minus the SEC), but he just doesn't have enough of the necessary running qualities when you have to get past ALL 3 LAYERS of the defense. If he was at a different position, then maybe his acceleration and 'beat-you-to-the-corner' speed would come in handy, but lining up under center, limited to only those two attributes, doesn't produce (at least against teams with quality defenses). He has yet to put a successful game together on the ground against a quality opponent, weak ankle or not weak ankle (See 2010 Texas).

 

--Zero leadership qualities -- Obviously this one is more of an opinion that a fact, but it needs to be addressed. Everyone has seen the pressers. He is awkward, to put it lightly, in front of the media and never says what he needs to say as the leader of a top-notch football team. The emotional aspect of being a QB is almost as important as the physical aspect. You need to know how to address your players when times are tough and battle through adversity. This is my biggest problem with Taylor. HE HAS NO RESILIENCE AS A PLAYER. When he does something wrong, he has not once, NOT ONCE, came back from it in the same game and proved everyone wrong. When he throws an INT in a game, he never improves after he does so. His best games, that really mattered, in his career overall as a QB are 10 WASH, 10 KSU, and 10 OKST. All three were not only less-than-stellar defenses, but Taylor did not throw an INT in any of those games. His best games unfold when he never screws up in the passing game. When he does, he has yet to show any sort of resilience. When he falls, he falls hard and can't seem to pick himself up: a MAJOR issue when you're the leader of the offense. As the leader of the team, you need to take responsibilities for your teams offensive performance and put the blame on your shoulders, even if it's not completely your fault. It shows that you're unselfish and thinking of your teammates before yourself. He has yet to show that in his pressers, or at least the one's I've seen.

 

The bottom line is that Taylor should not be the future of Nebraska football. He has made little, if any progress in the very reasonable amount of time he's seen over the last few years. I realize that Brion hasn't proven himself in practice to challenge Martinez for the starting role, but with what I've just explained, he needs to become a more prevalent part of the offense every week. He needs to see time nearly every week in order to improve and develop chemistry with his teammates. Whether he has challenged Taylor for the starting role or not, Bo needs to at least implement him into the offense in order to develop him as a player and perhaps light a fire under Taylor's rear end. The fact that he did not see any snaps during the second half last weekend was mind boggling. I think we have to stick with Taylor for now given the extreme shortage of able QBs behind him, but anyone who truly believes that Martinez is the right man for the job is delusional.

 

+1'd this

 

This year I have stayed away as much as possible on Taylor and my criticisms. In letting this play out, I think alot of folks are being more honest about who Taylor is and what type of QB he is.

 

I'm not going to get into the whole Brion vs Taylor debate, because it's an endless discussion that no one will give ground on.

 

Just curious though, did anyone happen to hear any in-depth reports on how fall practices went, especially the scrimmages?

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So, some of our fans were okay to write off Carnes after his first series in college but we have to wait years to allow Taylor to develop?? Would it really hurt anything to put in Carnes for a single series in the first half and a single series in the 2nd half? Are you guys all going to jump all over him when Martinez gets hurt and he gets thrown to the wolves without any significant experience? I really don't care if getting Carnes a few snaps hurts Taylor's confidence. He shouldn't have any based on how he plays. So what would have happened had we just run the option? How many more times would he have fumbled? As usual his teammates bailed him out and recovered it for him.

 

Who are you talking to? I haven't jumped all over anybody. I think you're projecting here - you are the one denouncing Martinez, not me.

 

I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to BIGREDIOWAN and a few others. He was one of them who wrote off Carnes right away. You were the voice of reason on the very same thread.

Carnes did look horrible in that first game and you can't convince me otherwise. Which is why I said earlier that he can probably only run half of this offense and that's if we're lucky. If we lose 4 or 5 games then it doesn't matter at that point, give him a shot. If Martinez gets hurt what choice do we have? Right now we have a choice and the choice is to keep Martinez in there and continue to let Carnes figure out the playbook. He may be a better QB, but he can't compete for it until next season IMO unless he gets the playbook down. I'm not saying Taylor knows the entire playbook, but I'm willing to bet he knows a helluva lot more than Carnes at this point.

 

Based on what, 6 plays? In a new offense? You've got to be kidding me. How do you know that at this point he only knows half the playbook?

Based on his time in the system is all, he couldn't even run the option very well that day?! That's a pretty basic offense to run don't you think? Right now Taylor is our QB, all I'm saying is get used to it because it ain't gonna change. How do you know he knows more than half the playbook? Speculation right? Same thing here.............If Brion gets the start eventually, I'm behind him 110%. I hope he does great, but until that time comes this talk is getting old already, but what else do we have to talk about at this point? lol

 

Yes I do, which is exactly why I'm so shocked that martinez can't make the defender commit before pitching the frickin ball. I can't for the life of me understand how you can be so harsh on a kid who was taking his first snaps in a college game and defend Taylor after all the experience he has had. There's no getting through to you, so I give up. Have a nice night.

What makes your opinion so right? Maybe you're the one who's not getting it? I haven't been "harsh" on the kid, I simply said he didn't look good in that game. Chill out and quit making it sound like I said, "this kids a piece of crap and will never amount to anything! He couldn't be QB to save his life!" You didn't ask my opinion when he came in one other game did you? During that game I could tell he worked on things and he did look "better" at running the option, but that's because he had gotten more reps in practice. Seems pretty darn straight forward to me???

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I would really like to see what he said, and if that is the case I wouldn't ever argue with it.

 

But, would you agree the college game follows the trends of the pro game? And if so, the talk there is about the ever changing offenses and how the defenses have to change to keep up. Which says to me that the offenses do change and evolve. If you don't believe the college game reflects pro game , then it's not worth going any further.

 

I figured you'd want to see it - I would too. I'll find it. It wasn't an article that got a lot of publicity, but I know it was linked to here. It's all about finding the right keywords, I guess.

 

I would say SOME college teams follow pro trends, but that doesn't mean the pro game is the "right" way of doing things. Like Hercules said, there are a lot of trends you could point to which say the pro game is mirroring the college game.

 

And I stick by my micro/macro evolution reference. Things get tweaked all the time, even in games, but overall the game hasn't changed a whole lot in 50 years. There are more similarities than differences. Depends on what you're looking at, I guess.

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I saw him say it a few years ago in regard to the popularity of the spread offense. I think it was on a show like Gameday. It was kind of a what it T.O. doing now. It was between Congress and AD.

 

I have no doubt that T.O. would be able to figure out an effective offense given the current game. Much like I have stated on here before, we are not dealing with Crouch, Frazier, the pipeline or T.O. for that matter.

 

Crouch and Frazier were equally as one dimensional as T-Mart. I am of the opinion that they would not be effective QB's 15-25 years later (now). I believe there is too much speed now. You have to be able to stretch the field vertically, not just horizontally. There is a need for a little bit different personnel. But, that's just my opinion.

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I personally can't believe that Carnes hasn't gotten more time. Especially late in the game last night. I haven't seen enough of him to know that he'll be better than Martinez, but can he really be worse? Sure, Taylor is averaging 1.6 rushing TDs per game and 1 passing TD a game, but what else is he averaging? 1 INT per game, 2 fumbles per game, multiple missed wide open receivers (with bad passes and also not seeing the open guy). The last two games, he's had 98 rushing yards on 32 carries. Taylor's only "skill" is his straight ahead speed. And he's not even able to utilize that anymore.

 

I've read rumblings that Carnes may not be here next year, because he was told he would have a chance to earn the starting job on the field, but he hasn't had a chance. I'd be pissed too if I saw the starter playing like that, and I didn't get a chance. And this isn't a knee jerk reaction to last night's game. I've never been a fan of Martinez. I just don't see anything from him that makes me think he should be a QB. Every other team that was recruiting him felt the same way.

 

With the schedule as it is, this is what I think needs to happen: Get Carnes significant time in a backup role against OSU. By significant, I mean close to half the game, wherever they can fit him in. Then, we have a week off and face a terrible Minnesota team. After the OSU game, Carnes needs to take all snaps for two weeks and be the starter for the Minnesota game, and going forward after that. That will be a good game for him to make his first start. The Martinez experiment is over. It's been a complete disaster. If Bo doesn't give up on this experiment, and give up on it NOW, then I question whether he is head coach material. I love Bo, but I just can't see how you can stick with Taylor at this time. Others will say that Martinez is the best we have. But I don't believe that, there's NO way that can be the best we have. If we don't go with Brion now, we may lose him to a transfer, and then we're really screwed. We have so few QBs already on this roster.

 

And yes, I realize the defense played terrible also. If I was on the defense and I saw my QB play the way he does, all.the.time., I'd be down and playing crappy too. By no means, do I think that is the only problem with the defense, they have many. But the QB play does nothing to help it. Judging by some of the tweets of some of the players, it sounds like there are internal problems going on. A lot of this could be based on what players perceive to be favortism going on, and not playing the best guys. Sure, playing time is won in practice, but if those guys aren't getting it done during the game, then why not try someone else. Maybe they are guys that step up in game play and just don't show all their ability in practice. It certainly can't be any worse than the guys that are currently playing.

 

I don't think the sky is falling... yet. But we're on a slippery slope here. How Bo and the team respond over the next few weeks will be telling. They should start by putting Carnes in and going from there.

 

And for those of you that say "Martinez is only a sophomore, give him more time", how many freshman QBs have we played this year that look amazing. And that's just teams we've played. There are MANY freshman and sophomore QBs in the country that are playing well for there teams! Martinez just does't have "IT". It's time to see if Carnes does.

 

Your post sounds a lot like what people were saying about TO in the mid to late 70ies.

T_O_B

G>B>R

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Key to NU victories w/ Martinez: 8 carries and 12 passing attempts

 

Key to NU losses w/ Martinez: 20 carries and 15 passing attempts

 

After painfully reading this entire thread, this is the only way Martinez can be expected to succeed. He does throw like Uncle Rico and it's not going to change. Period. Period.

 

You know who else couldn't throw...Scott Frost and Tommie Frazier. Look up how many times they had 20 rushing attempts in a game...I think Frost had 3 and Frazier I don't think had any.

 

If you can't pass and you're a QB, it has to be a suprise that you're running AND passing.

 

Give the rock to Burkhead 25 times a game and we'll all forget about how bad Taylor's throwing motion is!

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Give the rock to Burkhead 25 times a game and we'll all forget about how bad Taylor's throwing motion is!

 

Word. Take the ball out of Taylor's hands (so to speak) for a game or two. Let him collect himself, let the O Line MASH somebody, and let the Quadruplets at RB go crazy. Run some reverses with Jamal Turner.

 

Nobody is expecting this. Everyone expects Martinez to get the majority of touches, but he's not the only guy capable of going house every play.

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Give the rock to Burkhead 25 times a game and we'll all forget about how bad Taylor's throwing motion is!

 

Word. Take the ball out of Taylor's hands (so to speak) for a game or two. Let him collect himself, let the O Line MASH somebody, and let the Quadruplets at RB go crazy. Run some reverses with Jamal Turner.

 

Nobody is expecting this. Everyone expects Martinez to get the majority of touches, but he's not the only guy capable of going house every play.

 

+1

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did anyone actually expect nebraska to win this game? As a fan i hoped nebraska could pull it out but being a realist, nebraska needed some help from wisconsin with some turnovers to have a shot. nebrsaka CANNOT win the "big game." when nationally broadcasted on the big stage, nebraska hasn't won a game (besides 2001 oklahoma) that can even think of. on the hand, i can think of multiple losses on the national level - penn state, miami, usc, oklahoma, virginia tech, even missouri, etc. Furthermore, not only were most of those losses, they were embarrassing! i'm no fairweather fan but i am also a person who is real when looking at nebraska. as long as tmart is at quarterback there will be multiple, embarrassing losses for the next 2 and a half years. beating teams that we are supposed to beat is even sketchy as best (i.e. texas tech, iowa state...). when will husker nation stop sipping the red kool-aid and realize that tmart sucks at qb because he can't make decisions. regardless of his disgusting looking throwing form, defenders have the superpower of invisibility to him. we may as well run pass plays with one receiver going out for a pass cause he only looks at one anyways, or may as well keep 10 in the box to block in case he decides to run. taylor martinez would be a great addition to my flag football team and that's about it. also, when will people start to realize that bo pelini is too stubborn... i like his hard-headedness sometimes but my gosh, you honestly think that he believes we could win a national or conference championship with a 50% passer under center? you'd have to be high on acid to believe that. the good does not outweigh the bad when it comes to martinez at qb. he's a good runner but that's not what a qb is there for. a qb is there to manage the game, lead the team, and make plays when the team is up against the ropes. all 3 of those things i am yet to see from taylor martinez. the 2 people at fault here are taylor martinez and his inability to make quick, smart decisions and the coaches for putting him in there to get laughed at by the whole nation on national television. i beginning to think the offensive coaches have promised taylor martinez and his father the qb role or something, cuz if a guy can't see how pitiful nebraska has been as of late then you are a blind, ignorant citizen of the husker nation. and i can't believe that the coaches have let this continue. the offense has faltered after 4 or 5 games the last 3 years in a row now. the first 2 years it was chalked up to injuries at the qb position (zac lee and tmart)...what's the excuse this year?

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did anyone actually expect nebraska to win this game? As a fan i hoped nebraska could pull it out but being a realist, nebraska needed some help from wisconsin with some turnovers to have a shot. nebrsaka CANNOT win the "big game." when nationally broadcasted on the big stage, nebraska hasn't won a game (besides 2001 oklahoma) that can even think of. on the hand, i can think of multiple losses on the national level - penn state, miami, usc, oklahoma, virginia tech, even missouri, etc. Furthermore, not only were most of those losses, they were embarrassing! i'm no fairweather fan but i am also a person who is real when looking at nebraska. as long as tmart is at quarterback there will be multiple, embarrassing losses for the next 2 and a half years. beating teams that we are supposed to beat is even sketchy as best (i.e. texas tech, iowa state...). when will husker nation stop sipping the red kool-aid and realize that tmart sucks at qb because he can't make decisions. regardless of his disgusting looking throwing form, defenders have the superpower of invisibility to him. we may as well run pass plays with one receiver going out for a pass cause he only looks at one anyways, or may as well keep 10 in the box to block in case he decides to run. taylor martinez would be a great addition to my flag football team and that's about it. also, when will people start to realize that bo pelini is too stubborn... i like his hard-headedness sometimes but my gosh, you honestly think that he believes we could win a national or conference championship with a 50% passer under center? you'd have to be high on acid to believe that. the good does not outweigh the bad when it comes to martinez at qb. he's a good runner but that's not what a qb is there for. a qb is there to manage the game, lead the team, and make plays when the team is up against the ropes. all 3 of those things i am yet to see from taylor martinez. the 2 people at fault here are taylor martinez and his inability to make quick, smart decisions and the coaches for putting him in there to get laughed at by the whole nation on national television. i beginning to think the offensive coaches have promised taylor martinez and his father the qb role or something, cuz if a guy can't see how pitiful nebraska has been as of late then you are a blind, ignorant citizen of the husker nation. and i can't believe that the coaches have let this continue. the offense has faltered after 4 or 5 games the last 3 years in a row now. the first 2 years it was chalked up to injuries at the qb position (zac lee and tmart)...what's the excuse this year?

 

Wall. Of. Text.

 

 

Listen, sorry for busting your chops. We do value your opinion. Thanks for coming to HuskerBoard to talk football. Please stick around.

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did anyone actually expect nebraska to win this game? As a fan i hoped nebraska could pull it out but being a realist, nebraska needed some help from wisconsin with some turnovers to have a shot. nebrsaka CANNOT win the "big game." when nationally broadcasted on the big stage, nebraska hasn't won a game (besides 2001 oklahoma) that can even think of. on the hand, i can think of multiple losses on the national level - penn state, miami, usc, oklahoma, virginia tech, even missouri, etc. Furthermore, not only were most of those losses, they were embarrassing! i'm no fairweather fan but i am also a person who is real when looking at nebraska. as long as tmart is at quarterback there will be multiple, embarrassing losses for the next 2 and a half years. beating teams that we are supposed to beat is even sketchy as best (i.e. texas tech, iowa state...). when will husker nation stop sipping the red kool-aid and realize that tmart sucks at qb because he can't make decisions. regardless of his disgusting looking throwing form, defenders have the superpower of invisibility to him. we may as well run pass plays with one receiver going out for a pass cause he only looks at one anyways, or may as well keep 10 in the box to block in case he decides to run. taylor martinez would be a great addition to my flag football team and that's about it. also, when will people start to realize that bo pelini is too stubborn... i like his hard-headedness sometimes but my gosh, you honestly think that he believes we could win a national or conference championship with a 50% passer under center? you'd have to be high on acid to believe that. the good does not outweigh the bad when it comes to martinez at qb. he's a good runner but that's not what a qb is there for. a qb is there to manage the game, lead the team, and make plays when the team is up against the ropes. all 3 of those things i am yet to see from taylor martinez. the 2 people at fault here are taylor martinez and his inability to make quick, smart decisions and the coaches for putting him in there to get laughed at by the whole nation on national television. i beginning to think the offensive coaches have promised taylor martinez and his father the qb role or something, cuz if a guy can't see how pitiful nebraska has been as of late then you are a blind, ignorant citizen of the husker nation. and i can't believe that the coaches have let this continue. the offense has faltered after 4 or 5 games the last 3 years in a row now. the first 2 years it was chalked up to injuries at the qb position (zac lee and tmart)...what's the excuse this year?

 

 

Uh...yeah, I think we could have. Our coaching staff deserves an "epic fail" for their gameplan after the 1st quarter.

 

Wisconsin has been run on this year. We needed to run the ball. We pass the ball and abandon the run WITH THE LEAD? I just don't get it. It's like we're afraid to run the ball because they don't want fans saying "just pass the damn ball" like they did in the 80's and 90's.

 

If Taylor was calling audibles to passes on all of those plays then I forgive the staff, but I don't think that's the case.

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I think what he meant was that in the 90s, the S&C of Nebraska was just light years ahead of everybody else, and that's not true anymore. Lots of ho-hum schools around the country have caught up to an approachable level, something that just wasn't the case back then. Days of complete physical dominance over opponents are probably over.

 

This is the biggest thing people are overlooking in this discussion.

 

Assuming that what zoogies posted is a truth, then it stands to reason that we're not going to be able to line up and run it at teams any longer ad nauseaum, no matter how many players a defense sends to stop the run.

 

No, that doesn't mean that we abandon the run--it means that passing becomes that more integral to our ability to run the ball and force the defense to not load up against the run.

 

So sticking with a quarterback that has shown no overall progress since last year, has shown himself to be unable to adequately check down on receivers, and is rarely accurate beyond 10 yards really doesn't help our running game in the grand scheme of things.

 

Plus, riddle me this, folks--if we're supposed to be as run-focused as people seem to think we should be, then why do we bother recruiting and fretting about having WR talent if all we're going to do is ask them is to throw blocks all day long? It seems like an egregious waste of a talented and young WR corps if we can't find a way to get them the ball, and there are only so many end-around and Wildcat plays we can run before a competent offense grows wise...

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Bo always talks about "the process". Well, that's great and all but why hasn't he been able to get a QB to run the type of offense he wants by year four? It's ridiculous. And if this is indeed the type of QB he wants, then why not find an offensive coordinator who knows how to run the type of offense he wants? Or maybe one that can stick to a damn gameplan? This has become ridiculous.

 

Every big game on the national stage it becomes the same story. Team starts out okay on offense and defense, falters, plays horrible defense, and can't score points. The result? Well, just watch Saturday's game again and you would have the Nebraska program the last four/five years in a nutshell.

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I think what he meant was that in the 90s, the S&C of Nebraska was just light years ahead of everybody else, and that's not true anymore. Lots of ho-hum schools around the country have caught up to an approachable level, something that just wasn't the case back then. Days of complete physical dominance over opponents are probably over.

 

This is the biggest thing people are overlooking in this discussion.

 

Assuming that what zoogies posted is a truth, then it stands to reason that we're not going to be able to line up and run it at teams any longer ad nauseaum, no matter how many players a defense sends to stop the run.

 

No, that doesn't mean that we abandon the run--it means that passing becomes that more integral to our ability to run the ball and force the defense to not load up against the run.

 

So sticking with a quarterback that has shown no overall progress since last year, has shown himself to be unable to adequately check down on receivers, and is rarely accurate beyond 10 yards really doesn't help our running game in the grand scheme of things.

 

Plus, riddle me this, folks--if we're supposed to be as run-focused as people seem to think we should be, then why do we bother recruiting and fretting about having WR talent if all we're going to do is ask them is to throw blocks all day long? It seems like an egregious waste of a talented and young WR corps if we can't find a way to get them the ball, and there are only so many end-around and Wildcat plays we can run before a competent offense grows wise...

 

Agreed. I think this is one of the most frustrating things I noticed. Rex Burkhead was WIDE open on so many plays where he could have gained at a minimum five yards. After the amount of games and reps in practice, I would think checking the ball down would be pretty natural rather than trying to throw it into double/triple coverage.

 

And if we are as run-first as everyone thinks, how does this explain us going after the talented WRs we have or are going after? Or moving arguably one of the most athletic individuals on offense from QB to WR? What's the point of this move if we can't even get him the ball to take advantage of his speed?

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I think what he meant was that in the 90s, the S&C of Nebraska was just light years ahead of everybody else, and that's not true anymore. Lots of ho-hum schools around the country have caught up to an approachable level, something that just wasn't the case back then. Days of complete physical dominance over opponents are probably over.

 

You're thinking of the 80s. That's when our strength and conditioning was lightyears ahead of everyone in the country. It still didn't get us a national championship. By the 90s, all the top programs had caught up, just not the Oregons and the Missouris. More schools like that have caught up or surged ahead over the last 10 years.

 

Anyways, it's completely beside the point, because we didn't lose the game the other night due to lack of physical prowess. We lost the game due to discipline, poor-decision making, and poor management, from both the staff and the players. We didn't lose because of scheme or philosophy. The notion that we can't win a big game with a QB in the mold of Taylor Martinez isn't true - we just have to be better than we were the other night, top to bottom (staff and players).

 

This whole argument is getting weirder all the time. Last year, people had a problem with Taylor because they wanted our offense to be balanced. This year, he successfully ran a balanced attack in the first quarter of a big game, and now we're mad that he wasn't able to run the fun-n-gun.

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