The Religious Discussion of 2012

[krill]

Interesting post on reddit today-

 

The part of the bible rich republicans don't like to read. Matthew 19:21-24

 

21 Jesus answered,“If you want to be perfect,go,sell your possessions and give to the poor,and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come,follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this,he went away sad,because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples,“Truly I tell you,it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

24 Again I tell you,it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

[knapplc]

That's also a particularly problematic passage for the Vatican, who sits on immense wealth while the poor starve throughout the world. I have yet to hear any theological justification for this.

 

[Husker_x]

That's also a particularly problematic passage for the Vatican, who sits on immense wealth while the poor starve throughout the world. I have yet to hear any theological justification for this.

 

 

Is that thing in the foreground a hookah? I could totally go for a toke.

[JJ Husker]

Interesting post on reddit today-

 

The part of the bible rich republicans don't like to read. Matthew 19:21-24

 

21 Jesus answered,“If you want to be perfect,go,sell your possessions and give to the poor,and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come,follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this,he went away sad,because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples,“Truly I tell you,it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

24 Again I tell you,it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

 

I imagine rich democrats don't like reading that one either. Of course there is probably much less chance a democrat would have cause to read the Bible.

 

 

 

I don't know? Just feeling ornery today, must be the springlike weather.

[strigori]

Interesting post on reddit today-

 

The part of the bible rich republicans don't like to read. Matthew 19:21-24

 

21 Jesus answered,“If you want to be perfect,go,sell your possessions and give to the poor,and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come,follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this,he went away sad,because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples,“Truly I tell you,it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

24 Again I tell you,it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

 

I imagine rich democrats don't like reading that one either. Of course there is probably much less chance a democrat would have cause to read the Bible.

 

 

 

I don't know? Just feeling ornery today, must be the springlike weather.

Just going to go for the deflection?

 

The rich lefties are more apt to support and behave like the lessons Jesus preaches than the rich righties who tend to blame the poor for everything.

 

If you really look at the policies of Dems vs GOP and then line them up with that Jesus preaches which side do you think lines up closer to the Christian ideals? Love thy neighbor, help the poor, and care for/heal the sick were always at the forefront of Jesus' activities.

[carlfense]

That's also a particularly problematic passage for the Vatican, who sits on immense wealth while the poor starve throughout the world. I have yet to hear any theological justification for this.

 

Yeah . . . the ostentatious wealth of the Catholic Church has raised my eyebrows for some time now. I think we had a thread about a year ago about huge new Catholic churches. I don't think I ever heard a satisfactory answer as to why donated dollars are better used building ridiculous churches in wealthy neighborhoods instead of helping the less fortunate.

[Landlord]

That's also a particularly problematic passage for the Vatican, who sits on immense wealth while the poor starve throughout the world. I have yet to hear any theological justification for this.

 

Yeah . . . the ostentatious wealth of the Catholic Church has raised my eyebrows for some time now. I think we had a thread about a year ago about huge new Catholic churches. I don't think I ever heard a satisfactory answer as to why donated dollars are better used building ridiculous churches in wealthy neighborhoods instead of helping the less fortunate.

 

 

One of the several problems I have with the Catholic church.

 

I've been seeing more and more how different generations have swung Christian theology and doctrine in extreme directions, trying to course-correct from the generation before them. I praise a lot of prominent pastors and churches that speak out against the "American Dream" version of Christianity, but I don't see the middle ground anymore. As far as your question, carlfense, I remember the thread. I think that if you're looking at it in the most extreme example I agree with your assessment that it's a waste and not very Christ-like. However, there is something to be said about providing a safe and welcoming environment, staying culturally relevant, and even for building a network of missionaries and support for ministries that do help the less fortunate full-time.

 

While I think that there is no possible way you can have fancy ornaments, statues, stained glass and etc. while being without excess. On the other side of the coin, I see a lot of huge churches with gymnasiums, classrooms, good office space and worship areas, coffee shops and such and these were all built and in use with the desire to reach people and provide in different ways.

[bennychico11]

Yes, the Catholic church isn't the only one. The mega churches around my area are ridiculous.

When I attended a Methodist church as a teenager...I was actively involved in the youth group. We went on several mission trips and I remember having to come up with the money myself to fund the trip. The church I attended, however, was not very well attended and therefore didn't have the funds to support the youth fully on these trips.

I'm curious how much help the mega churches do towards mission work financially. If instead of building one mega church...all that money went towards helping the less fortunate instead? I can't imagine how much positive work might actually get done.

But then again, I'm all for telling the churches to pay property taxes.

[carlfense]

I didn't mean to imply that the Catholic Church is the only offender.

 

 

[Enhance]

I didn't mean to imply that the Catholic Church is the only offender.

True, but I think they're the most egregious offender. Does any other church have more money?

[HSKR]

This thread has turned an odd corner. Many of the very same people who don't want these churches spreading their beliefs now want them to get out and be more giving while spreading their beliefs? Wouldn't it be better for you guys if they just holed up in their mega complexes filled with gold and rubies, rolled around in it and hoarded it all which btw, they gave themselves, then to go out and "spread the word" while being charitable???

 

I'm lost. I can't explain this one.

[Landlord]

This thread has turned an odd corner. Many of the very same people who don't want these churches spreading their beliefs now want them to get out and be more giving while spreading their beliefs? Wouldn't it be better for you guys if they just holed up in their mega complexes filled with gold and rubies, rolled around in it and hoarded it all which btw, they gave themselves, then to go out and "spread the word" while being charitable???

 

I'm lost. I can't explain this one.

 

 

Are you sure that those advocating the church to get out more are the same ones crying foul that Christians are vocal about their faith? Maybe they're different people altogether, I haven't read through enough of the thread to really know.

 

 

Yes, the Catholic church is the only one. The mega churches around my area are ridiculous.

When I attended a Methodist church as a teenager...I was actively involved in the youth group. We went on several mission trips and I remember having to come up with the money myself to fund the trip. The church I attended, however, was not very well attended and therefore didn't have the funds to support the youth fully on these trips.

I'm curious how much help the mega churches do towards mission work financially. If instead of building one mega church...all that money went towards helping the less fortunate instead? I can't imagine how much positive work might actually get done.

But then again, I'm all for telling the churches to pay property taxes.

 

 

Depends on the church obviously...but some of them are really, really committed to it. The new trend these days is multi-site churches rather than mega churches, which is good and bad in this regard. More staff members, more services, etc., but also more locations, more ministry and more members. A few megachurches in the country such as Mars Hill (Seattle, not Rob Bell's church), Elevation, The Village, etc. I am pretty confident literally put forth millions of dollars per year towards mission work overseas. I don't have a source for this unfortunately but I'm pretty positive.

 

We all know there has to be a balance here. If there's not, we could easily point the finger at ourselves with the same accusation. "If you hadn't bought that fast food or that SUV or that boat or so many presents for your kids that money could have went towards the less fortunate!"

[krill]

Interesting post on reddit today-

 

The part of the bible rich republicans don't like to read. Matthew 19:21-24

 

21 Jesus answered,“If you want to be perfect,go,sell your possessions and give to the poor,and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come,follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this,he went away sad,because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples,“Truly I tell you,it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

24 Again I tell you,it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

 

I imagine rich democrats don't like reading that one either. Of course there is probably much less chance a democrat would have cause to read the Bible.

 

 

 

I don't know? Just feeling ornery today, must be the springlike weather.

 

That's a fair point. I just find it amusing in a contradictory sense. One would think that Christians would put a bit of emphasis on this point since it is all but an explicit statement made by Jesus and may have some bearing on admittance to heaven. But I guess Leviticus 20:13 is way more important in the political landscape.

[Landlord]

Interesting post on reddit today-

 

The part of the bible rich republicans don't like to read. Matthew 19:21-24

 

21 Jesus answered,“If you want to be perfect,go,sell your possessions and give to the poor,and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come,follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this,he went away sad,because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples,“Truly I tell you,it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

24 Again I tell you,it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

 

I imagine rich democrats don't like reading that one either. Of course there is probably much less chance a democrat would have cause to read the Bible.

 

 

 

I don't know? Just feeling ornery today, must be the springlike weather.

 

That's a fair point. I just find it amusing in a contradictory sense. One would think that Christians would put a bit of emphasis on this point since it is all but an explicit statement made by Jesus and may have some bearing on admittance to heaven. But I guess Leviticus 20:13 is way more important in the political landscape.

 

 

Catholics != Christians. Democrats either. Approximately 75% of the country identifies as Christian...you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure that not even half of that number actually has living that faith out as the deepest desire of their soul. A lot of Christians due put a very important emphasis on being generous and loving, caring for "orphans and widows" if you will.

[knapplc]

This thread has turned an odd corner. Many of the very same people who don't want these churches spreading their beliefs now want them to get out and be more giving while spreading their beliefs? Wouldn't it be better for you guys if they just holed up in their mega complexes filled with gold and rubies, rolled around in it and hoarded it all which btw, they gave themselves, then to go out and "spread the word" while being charitable???

 

I'm lost. I can't explain this one.

 

You're presuming that those of us decrying the hoarding of wealth in the Vatican are expecting the Catholics to spend that wealth in distributing their message. Nobody said any such thing. My direct comparison was between the Catholics hoarding what they were hoarding and the starving of the world. Giving someone a bowl of rice doesn't mean handing them the Gospel with it. If they choose to do that while giving food without any strings attached, such as "to get this food you must convert to Catholicism," that would be swell, but not something I'd expect.

 

Regardless, at no time am I advocating the Catholic church spreading their message by disseminating their wealth. I am simply pointing out that the hoarding of wealth is incompatible with Jesus' teaching:

 

 

 

 

 

The Rich and the Kingdom of God

 

¹⁷ As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

¹⁸ “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. ¹⁹ You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’”

²⁰ “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

²¹ Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

²² At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

²³ Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”

²⁴ The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! ²⁵ It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

²⁶ The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”

²⁷ Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

²⁸ Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!”

²⁹ “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel ³⁰ will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. ³¹ But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”