lo country Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Carlfense, I will stay away from the sophomoric quips such as here's a hint.......... Good point. I apologize. simply say that the chart was not posted by me that you are referring to (posted by Skersrule) I stated that Obama is currently creating a larger deficit than Bush. That's easy for Bush to do when he was handed a budget surplus and turned it into a massive deficit. Obama was handed a government running at a massive deficit and you are trying to blame him for that deficit when it's largely the result of 30 year low revenue. You can look to SkersRules chart (I really shouldn't post from my phone) to see the peak. The article I referenced is here. It comes from the "conservative" NPR. It is a surprisingly fair analysis of the two President's and their respective spending. http://www.npr.org/2...vs-bush-on-debt That's kind of funny. You might think that it's surprisingly fair . . . but that might be because it's from the Weekly Standard . . . and not from the "conservative" NPR. That's from a professed "Weekly Conservative Magazine and Blog." That might be why you think that it's "fair." It happens to line up with your beliefs. Again, I do not mind discussing politics, but the "cute" remarks are not needed. True. How do you do the separate "quotes" thing? Link to comment
carlfense Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 How do you do the separate "quotes" thing? Copy and paste the quote line where you want it. example (remove the periods)[....quote name='lo country' timestamp='1342561042' post='973306'....] and then end with [./.quote] Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I'll bite. What happens if you delete the "Kenyan" reference and are simply left with the claim that Obama engages in class warfare and has held government positions or been on the public dole for most of his life? Does that still seem ignorant to you? Sometimes maybe it is best to ignore the inflammatory cheap shots and see if a valid point still remains. I wonder if people realize how trivial this sort of approach makes them seem. I mean sure, if you do it around your Obama defending buddies everyone will understand but...out in the real world..... Could you back up the "most of his life" claim? It seems like more right-wing mythology to me. Prior to entering politics, he taught for a private university (University of Chicago), worked for a private law firm as a civil rights attorney, and worked for a few non-profits with a focus on various civil rights missions. He assumed his first elected office 15 years ago as a part time legislator (like most states, Illinois doesn't have a full time legislature) while also working as an attorney and as a lecturer at University of Chicago Law School. He's held full time office only since being elected to the United States Senate in 2004. Even if you count his part time duty as an Illinois state senator, his time as a public servant doesn't even total most of his adult life, let alone most of his life. Considering the veracity of your claim, I'll let you guess how I'd answer your question (bolded above). I stand somewhat corrected. Sorry, it is a tendency of mine to not give much legitimacy to working as a university lecturer or as a civil rights attorney, not to mention the various elected offices. I realize somebody has to do it and those can be worthwhile endeavors but, in my mind, it is not as legitimate as actually earning a paycheck. But, to be fair, working as CEO of Bain Capital for the amount Romney was being paid, is not really "earning" your paycheck either. Sorry, I come from more of a blue collar background. I don't have a lot of respect for those who suckle at the public teat, earn their wage in service of the liberal agenda, or those who get paid way more than a days work is really worth. Maybe that's why I dislike politicians so much. Or maybe, it's because most of them just suck at their job. I suppose if a large number of them started doing something productive that my impression of their chosen careers would improve. Link to comment
bhamHusker Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 ...I realize somebody has to do it and those can be worthwhile endeavors but, in my mind, it is not as legitimate as actually earning a paycheck... Seriously, what the hell? Working as a teacher or working as a defender of civil rights isn't a legitimate way to earn a paycheck? You have a screwed up perspective on things, my friend. If that's where you or any of your other right-wing compatriots here are coming from, then I guess there's no point in further discussion on the subject. Wow. Link to comment
lo country Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 How do you do the separate "quotes" thing? Copy and paste the quote line where you want it. example (remove the periods)[....quote name='lo country' timestamp='1342561042' post='973306'....] and then end with [./.quote] Thanks. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 ...I realize somebody has to do it and those can be worthwhile endeavors but, in my mind, it is not as legitimate as actually earning a paycheck... Seriously, what the hell? Working as a teacher or working as a defender of civil rights isn't a legitimate way to earn a paycheck? You have a screwed up perspective on things, my friend. If that's where you or any of your other right-wing compatriots here are coming from, then I guess there's no point in further discussion on the subject. Wow. Don't change what I actually said. I have nothing but the utmost respect for teachers (K-12) and there is nothing wrong with defending civil rights. However, there are some profound differences between those things and lecturing at the Univ of Chicago and/or being a civil rights attorney. 1- you said "lecturer" not "professor". 2- I see quite a bit of difference from an elementary, middle, or high school teacher and those who typically make their way to the upper ranks of "teaching" at the university level. MInd you, not all of them are bad but, way too many and I'll include Obama, have a definite liberal left lean to them at that level. So, maybe it is not the profession so much as it is the typical person who undertakes that profession. If you have a great deal of respect for university level "teachers" then I guess we disagree. Also, I am somewhat tainted against some civil rights activities when it comes to the legal side of things. I know I should not be that way because many peoples rights are legitimately infringed upon. But, I have had one personal encounter with our civil rights system, with a bogus and frivolous claim made against myself. All I can say is that when you are actually innocent, the free help some people get to make their accusations seems extremely unfair compared to the employer who has to pay an attorney to defend against false accusations. I won't explain it totally but it was not a race thing. It was a sexual harrassment charge made by a former employee (a guy). I will unequivocally state that I in no way subjected him in any way, shape, or form to sexual harrassment. But it cost me a few thousand dollars on an attorney and a bunch of time and stress. Sorry, but that is not what our civil rights system is for so excuse me if I hold it in lower regard than you do. Link to comment
gobiggergoredder Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 <snip> . . . wants to look the other way as the Great Emperor again tests the waters of class warefare. Something is wrong with that. What else would you expect of a Kenyan that has held government positions his entire life? Sometimes I wonder if people realize how ignorant this sort of statement makes them sound. I mean sure . . . if you make them around your Tea Party pals everyone will have a good chuckle . . . but . . . wow. You'll get caught on one word like you always do. My guess is that this time you will chose communists or Hilter and you will make no attempt at even trying to understand how relevant this is. It's extremely relevant. I want to be very clear that I am not comparing Obama to Hitler. That would be ridiculous. Hitler's rise involved class warfare. As he fought communism, the sheeple gave away their powers....until they had none. First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. Martin Niemöller was a German pastor and theologian born in Lippstadt, Germany, in 1892. Niemöller was an anti-Communist and supported Hitler's rise to power at first. Link to comment
Mavric Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 "Without the context, Obama’s point that individual effort is bolstered by community systems is completely lost. The idea is nothing new; Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) that went viral in September of last year. This is inaccurate. Obama's point wasn't that "individual effort is bolstered by community systems". It was nearly the opposite. He repeatedly said that some people were just in the right place at the right time to take advantage of "community systems" that were in place. Indeed, far from denigrating small business owners, Obama has cut taxes on small businesses 17 times." This is a bit of a stretch but it's a good effort. Some are only extensions so they don't provide any new assistance. And some are only available if certain conditions are met (hiring unemployed workers, providing health care, etc.) but any help is welcome. However, I'm curious if you read the entire article where it also talks about tax increases on small businesses that have gone into effect. I'm sure every situation is different but it appears to me that it could be a wash in a lot of cases. Link to comment
bhamHusker Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Don't change what I actually said. I have nothing but the utmost respect for teachers (K-12) and there is nothing wrong with defending civil rights. However, there are some profound differences between those things and lecturing at the Univ of Chicago and/or being a civil rights attorney. 1- you said "lecturer" not "professor". 2- I see quite a bit of difference from an elementary, middle, or high school teacher and those who typically make their way to the upper ranks of "teaching" at the university level. MInd you, not all of them are bad but, way too many and I'll include Obama, have a definite liberal left lean to them at that level. So, maybe it is not the profession so much as it is the typical person who undertakes that profession. If you have a great deal of respect for university level "teachers" then I guess we disagree. Also, I am somewhat tainted against some civil rights activities when it comes to the legal side of things. I know I should not be that way because many peoples rights are legitimately infringed upon. But, I have had one personal encounter with our civil rights system, with a bogus and frivolous claim made against myself. All I can say is that when you are actually innocent, the free help some people get to make their accusations seems extremely unfair compared to the employer who has to pay an attorney to defend against false accusations. I won't explain it totally but it was not a race thing. It was a sexual harrassment charge made by a former employee (a guy). I will unequivocally state that I in no way subjected him in any way, shape, or form to sexual harrassment. But it cost me a few thousand dollars on an attorney and a bunch of time and stress. Sorry, but that is not what our civil rights system is for so excuse me if I hold it in lower regard than you do. The role of lecturer IS a teaching position (lecturers are non-tenured and have no research or other administrative responsibilities that professors typically have). That makes him, at that state of his career, a teacher. You choosing to devalue university instructors because of their real or perceived liberal values is interesting, and is quite telling about you and conservatives in general. For one thing, it smacks of the - all too common - right-wing tendency toward anti-intellectualism. More importantly, what you're saying is, essentially, that a teacher (or anyone in influential positions, really) who is liberal are bad and unworthy of their wages, earning an illegitimate salary while sucking the government teat. That leaves precious little room for compromise and coexistence, wouldn't you say? Nothing will ever satisfy you people - your way or the highway. That's not they way the system is supposed to work. Also, you seem to be confusing labor and employment attorneys with civil rights attorneys, but that's par for the course. Link to comment
Mavric Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 http://www.opposingv...ch-conservative Similar to the way MSNBC recut the part of Romney's speech about Wawa. Although that MSNBC was worse because they specifically did it to make fun of Romney. That's what goes on now-a-days. Link to comment
sd'sker Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 it all has to do with who your parents are, where you were born, what opportunities you were given, and your genetics (among many, many other factors sometimes in your control and sometimes completely out of your control). How far up your ass did you have to reach to pull this one out? classy, but not at all. i am not even sure how anyone could disagree with this. Link to comment
sd'sker Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 it seems as if you just do not like him, which is fine. but you are being extremely nit-picky, if not completely convoluted. i do not see any condescension, you are reading way to much into a nice sentiment how we should be more grateful for all of the benefits and opportunities we enjoy from this great nation. . what does 'just so smart' mean? also, his point was to highlight how success is a collaborative effort. it is obvious that the entrepreneur is given credit; after all, they are the ones who are enjoying their successes. To the contrary, it seems like you like the dude. This board starts a thread, that had a ton of posts, when someone mispells America in a Romney ad and then wants to look the other way as the Great Emperor again tests the waters of class warefare. Something is wrong with that. What else would you expect of a Kenyan that has held government positions his entire life? Live off the govmint.....the new Amercian Dream. i do like him, but how is that contrary to what i said? because i like him means that you can not not like him? they are not mutually exclusive. we all live off the government one way or another. also, the greatest class warfare we have lived through were the unprecedented, unfunded bush tax cuts of the wealthy that redistributed a massive amount of wealth to the richest americans on the backs of the middle-class. i did not participate in the romney misspelling thread and i do not even know what you are talking about when you say 'the great emperor tests the waters of class warefare (sic)'. if i had to, i would guess that you have a worldview you would rather defend with tired talking points than actually doing any primary research. but i don't know even know why i am wasting keystrokes on someone who would say the bold part. Link to comment
sd'sker Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 http://www.opposingv...ch-conservative Similar to the way MSNBC recut the part of Romney's speech about Wawa. Although that MSNBC was worse because they specifically did it to make fun of Romney. That's what goes on now-a-days. i guess it is all right then, since msnbc did it? is that where the integrity of political discourse has descended to? Link to comment
Moiraine Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Indeed, far from denigrating small business owners, Obama has cut taxes on small businesses 17 times." This is a bit of a stretch but it's a good effort. Some are only extensions so they don't provide any new assistance. And some are only available if certain conditions are met (hiring unemployed workers, providing health care, etc.) but any help is welcome. However, I'm curious if you read the entire article where it also talks about tax increases on small businesses that have gone into effect. I'm sure every situation is different but it appears to me that it could be a wash in a lot of cases. Just an FYI to any or all of you, keep in mind when "small businesses" are mentioned, that means up to 100 full time employees, at least in the Health Care bill. I think it goes up to 100 or 150 full time employees. Think about that for a minute. 100 full time employees and small business... I hate it when politicians from either side mention this and pretend like that's actually a small number. They know that the average person thinks of a small business as the local grocery store or auto repair shop. Those places might have 5 full time employees and 10 part time. They use that idea to get their points across but the idea in most peoples' heads isn't actually the same as what is in the bills they're speaking of. Link to comment
Mavric Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 i do like him, but how is that contrary to what i said? because i like him means that you can not not like him? they are not mutually exclusive. we all live off the government one way or another. also, the greatest class warfare we have lived through were the unprecedented, unfunded bush tax cuts of the wealthy that redistributed a massive amount of wealth to the richest americans on the backs of the middle-class. i did not participate in the romney misspelling thread and i do not even know what you are talking about when you say 'the great emperor tests the waters of class warefare (sic)'. if i had to, i would guess that you have a worldview you would rather defend with tired talking points than actually doing any primary research. but i don't know even know why i am wasting keystrokes on someone who would say the bold part. Can you explain this? Link to comment
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