God Hates Gays

[Lil' Red]

Both are a result of environment and choice before, during, and after the development of a person's brain (adolescence).

 

If this is the basis of your comparison then almost all behaviors and mental processes are comparable to pedophilia including heterosexuality.

[strigori]

Time for me to post:

 

1) How anyone can view pedophilia and homosexuality as being absolutely similar is beyond me. Consensual vs forced. Psychologically they are so vastly different that their roots can't be traced to the same thing.

 

2) It is rare, at least behaviorally to say that this thing has one precipitant. X very rarely causes Y. Whether that applies biologically our whatever-ally, i don't know.

 

3) If you're curious about the origin of homosexuality, check out Daryl Bem's Exotic Becomes Erotic theory of homosexuality. In my opinion it's very believable.

 

4) Are we not all God's children? Are we not to love our neighbors as we love ourselves, regardless of what team your neighbor plays for? I admit i lack a thorough understanding of religion because I'm not too religious, never have been, probably never will be. But it seems like the Bible is so contradicting, that it's hard to follow.

 

5) All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with unalienable rights, among them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Who are we to halt gay peoples pursuit because we see it unjust, even though their Creator has given them those rights?

 

 

 

5) Yes, all people are created equal, and if you want to connect it to religion, the Bible says that marriage is a union between a man and a woman.

 

Who gives a crap what the Bible says? Our laws are not founded on someone's book of mythology. Our basis for laws in the Constitution, not the Ten Commandments. There is a reason the #1's in both of those are diametrically opposed.

 

History lesson. The Bible was assembled/written/edited together about 600 AD. The cultures of that time in the parts of the world that influenced the Bible were universally patriarchal in nature. Women were little more than property (hence the dowry) used to create offspring. The reason why marriage was hijacked by the Christians was simply to lock in property rights. Particularly among those in the feudal system or ruling by 'divine right' The men in power wanted to make sure only their 'rightful' heir would inherit, not their bastards, and they sure didn't want someone else's kid coming from their wife.

 

Marriage existed before there were Christians, and in cultures that never heard of Christianity. So its not something unique, just hijacked like almost everything else in that book.

[Hammerhead]

5) Yes, all people are created equal, and if you want to connect it to religion, the Bible says that marriage is a union between a man and a woman.

 

The "Creator" mentioned in the Declaration of Independence isn't necessarily the Christian God. Many, if not most, of our Founding Fathers were provisional deists.

 

Basing the supreme law of our land on The Bible or any other holy book would make us theocratic in nature, which is exactly what the founders of this nation didn't want.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

But is exactly what our elected leaders are trying to base it on. It is entirely misguided.

 

Hardly any behavior is purely a choice or purely genetic. That G x E interaction tschu was talking about, is very much the case with behaviors, including our attractions. It may be a small part genetic, even though there is no "gay gene".

 

If I'm wrong, then go ahead and correct me: the old testament is where God said that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and it was Jesus that said love thy neighbor as thyself. Then, following the Trinity, wouldn't that loosely overrule the old testament?

[HuskerShark]

But is exactly what our elected leaders are trying to base it on. It is entirely misguided.

 

Hardly any behavior is purely a choice or purely genetic. That G x E interaction tschu was talking about, is very much the case with behaviors, including our attractions. It may be a small part genetic, even though there is no "gay gene".

 

If I'm wrong, then go ahead and correct me: the old testament is where God said that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and it was Jesus that said love thy neighbor as thyself. Then, following the Trinity, wouldn't that loosely overrule the old testament?

 

Just because gay marriage is not allowed, it has no bearing on whether or not you are loving your neighbor as yourself. Those two are not interconnected whatsoever.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Then we must have two different definitions of love.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

From what it sounds like, it's not love thy neighbor as thyself, but rather love thy neighbor who share your same values as you do yourself. That's convenient.

[Landlord]

From what it sounds like, it's not love thy neighbor as thyself, but rather love thy neighbor who share your same values as you do yourself. That's convenient.

 

I agree with you, but there is a caveat here. For Christians, we are to follow Jesus' example. Jesus loved everyone equally despite the circumstances of their lives, but He also spurred them on to seek faithfulness and righteousness. So He loved them as they were, but He loved them too much to let them stay that way. Similarly, Christians are called to love all people because we are all equally in need of grace and forgiveness, but we are to stand up for righteousness and against sin. This is not, however, an excuse to be a bigot or intolerant.

 

 

5) Yes, all people are created equal, and if you want to connect it to religion, the Bible says that marriage is a union between a man and a woman.

 

The "Creator" mentioned in the Declaration of Independence isn't necessarily the Christian God. Many, if not most, of our Founding Fathers were provisional deists.

 

Basing the supreme law of our land on The Bible or any other holy book would make us theocratic in nature, which is exactly what the founders of this nation didn't want.

 

Well said. Everyone here knows I bat for Team Jesus pretty ferociously, but this is spot on. America was not founded as a theocracy, nor should it be. No theocracy will ever properly work until Jesus comes back. We've seen the atrocities caused by Christendom (that is, the mixing of religious doctrine with national laws), and the reason this doesn't work is because legal systems put in place on Biblical principles without the inward renewing of the Holy Spirit in the citizens' hearts results in hypocrisy and hatred toward the social outliers and minorities. Witch hunts are one good example of this.

 

 

 

 

History lesson. The Bible was assembled/written/edited together about 600 AD. The cultures of that time in the parts of the world that influenced the Bible were universally patriarchal in nature. Women were little more than property (hence the dowry) used to create offspring. The reason why marriage was hijacked by the Christians was simply to lock in property rights. Particularly among those in the feudal system or ruling by 'divine right' The men in power wanted to make sure only their 'rightful' heir would inherit, not their bastards, and they sure didn't want someone else's kid coming from their wife.

 

 

This is grossly inaccurate.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

I understand. I'm picking up what you're putting down.

 

So then is not finding the right path worthy of hatred?

[Landlord]

I understand. I'm picking up what you're putting down.

 

So then is not finding the right path worthy of hatred?

 

 

Not at all. That would go entirely against the doctrines of grace and salvation by grace through faith. I think looking at a parent/child analogy is helpful. Parents have unconditional love (or should, hopefully) for their children, no matter who their kids are, how they fail and struggle, etc. However, for a parent to love their child well, they must scold, rebuke, encourage, affirm and call their child to be a good person - to have proper manners, to be thankful, respectful and kind. It is actually a lack of love for a parent to allow their child to continue in improper behaviors.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Looks like you and I are on the same page. Thanks for helping me make a point.

[Enhance]

Homosexuals vehemently oppose the idea that they've chosen to be gay. They all say it's what feels natural to them and what makes sense. Who am I or anybody else to tell them they're wrong?

 

There are also people who are sexually attracted to 5-year-old kids. You're telling me that they have something in their genetics that tells them to be attracted to little kids? I sure don't. And society has no problem with treating people with these kinds of fetishes as outcasts and weirdos, and they shouldn't. Homosexual attraction is exactly comparable IMO. Both are a result of a combination of environment during childhood (friends, parents, things that they are exposed to early in their lives) and choice.

Homosexual relationships exist between two consenting people. Pedophilia and child sex abuse exists between one consenting adult and one afraid/weak/innocent/unknowing child.

 

The two ideas are completely unrelated.

[Enhance]

People are people. Religion needs to butt out of people's lives. Gays getting married has absolutely no impact on a strait couple's marriage.

Which is really the crux of the issue for me. Day-to-day, week-to-week, it does not matter and it does NOT impact the lives of most straight couples. It's little more than bigotry and a superiority complex.

[HuskerShark]

Homosexual relationships exist between two consenting people. Pedophilia and child sex abuse exists between one consenting adult and one afraid/weak/innocent/unknowing child.

 

The two ideas are completely unrelated.

 

Apparently you missed the comparison.

 

From Post 208:

The similarity is not consentual vs. forced. The similarity is in the attraction. In a thread a while back, people who believe that homosexuality is genetic made the argument "How can you choose who/what you are attracted to?" and I couldn't come up with a good comparison at the time. The way in which pedophiles are attracted to little kids is the comparison. They are attracted to little kids. If your argument is that homosexuality is genetic, how can they choose who they are attracted to? And if you still believe that those attractions are genetic and out of a person's control but you also make that argument as a reason to accept homosexuality, then is that not hypocritical? I'm not even talking about the act of pedophilia, I'm talking about the attraction to little kids and the attraction to people of the same sex being of the same origin. Both are a result of environment and choice before, during, and after the development of a person's brain (adolescence).

[Enhance]

Homosexual relationships exist between two consenting people. Pedophilia and child sex abuse exists between one consenting adult and one afraid/weak/innocent/unknowing child.

 

The two ideas are completely unrelated.

 

Apparently you missed the comparison.

 

From Post 208:

The similarity is not consentual vs. forced. The similarity is in the attraction. In a thread a while back, people who believe that homosexuality is genetic made the argument "How can you choose who/what you are attracted to?" and I couldn't come up with a good comparison at the time. The way in which pedophiles are attracted to little kids is the comparison. They are attracted to little kids. If your argument is that homosexuality is genetic, how can they choose who they are attracted to? And if you still believe that those attractions are genetic and out of a person's control but you also make that argument as a reason to accept homosexuality, then is that not hypocritical? I'm not even talking about the act of pedophilia, I'm talking about the attraction to little kids and the attraction to people of the same sex being of the same origin. Both are a result of environment and choice before, during, and after the development of a person's brain (adolescence).

It is NOT hypocritical. Let's say all attractions are genetic, just for the sake of this argument. It does not change the fact that pedophilia exists between one consenting adult and one innocent child that can't defend themselves. Homosexuality is not taken part by one consenting and one person forced into it.

 

Attraction v. action doesn't matter. The attraction exists with heterosexuals, homosexuals and pedophiles. This is an inarguable fact. What's arguable are the circumstances surrounding these relationships. Two of the three are consensual, one is not. Therefore, they are not comparable.