SCOTUS and Gay Marriage

[knapplc]

Lighten up, guys. The kind of people that gather like a pack of schoolboys to whisper their creeper fantasies about the lesbian couple moving in typically aren't even cognizant of the issues they have. The ones that think nothing of telling other people about it certainly aren't. I just hope that my daughters, whether they grow up to be straight or gay, never have to live around people like that. No offense.

 

Well said.

[carlfense]

Problem is, whenever I see two lesbians in public, they are never as hot as they are in the movies.

You wish that the gay people that you are observing were more attractive?

 

There's that double standard again. Gay men? Gross. Gay women? If they're hot!

 

So strange.

 

Why Is That Strange?

Because if homosexuality is morally wrong (which is what the religious argument seems to be) it is surely morally wrong for both sexes.

 

The fixation on gay men makes me think that it's not about morality or religion.

[Junior]

Problem is, whenever I see two lesbians in public, they are never as hot as they are in the movies.

You wish that the gay people that you are observing were more attractive?

 

There's that double standard again. Gay men? Gross. Gay women? If they're hot!

 

So strange.

 

Why Is That Strange?

Because if homosexuality is morally wrong (which is what the religious argument seems to be) it is surely morally wrong for both sexes.

 

The fixation on gay men makes me think that it's not about morality or religion.

 

No, it's about being icky.

[carlfense]

No, it's about being icky.

Apparently so. Especially to totally not gay anti-gay crusaders like Marcus Bachmann, George Rekers, Troy King, etc.

[Junior]

No, it's about being icky.

Apparently so. Especially to totally not gay anti-gay crusaders like Marcus Bachmann, George Rekers, Troy King, etc.

 

http://www.southpark...phillips-sermon

 

Pray the gay away!!!

[Landlord]

The fixation on gay men makes me think that it's not about morality or religion.

 

 

The religious argument is, at it's core, an argument against lust, being defined as sexual relations, activities or thoughts outside of Marriage (capital M) as defined by the Bible.

 

Therefore, the sin of homosexuality isn't a sin of lifestyle or love or orientation but of lust - ie, any time there is sexual activity or thought between two people that are not joined in covenant as man and woman under God, ie, celibate homosexuals are not in sin.

 

The thing is, I'm a heterosexual male but I still struggle with and sin with lust, and it comes from a lot of different ways and one of those can easily be the idea of homosexual women together. Naturally, I am not attracted to the idea of two men together, because I am not attracted to men. I think it has equal weight with both sexes, but one of the two is much easier to reinforce and believe because I'm not tempted to think differently.

 

Have you ever believed something to be right or wrong but struggled with the temptation against it as such? It's the exact same thing. Admittedly, many focus specifically on men, sometimes because of bigotry, sometimes because our culture has made lesbianism more acceptable and not as fringe, and sometimes because of other reasons. But there are plenty that don't fixate specifically on gay men but on gay people in general, even if it sometimes in spite of what our bodies tell us.

[knapplc]

That's a good explanation, LOMS.

[Count 'Bility]

The fixation on gay men makes me think that it's not about morality or religion.

 

 

The religious argument is, at it's core, an argument against lust, being defined as sexual relations, activities or thoughts outside of Marriage (capital M) as defined by the Bible.

 

Therefore, the sin of homosexuality isn't a sin of lifestyle or love or orientation but of lust - ie, any time there is sexual activity or thought between two people that are not joined in covenant as man and woman under God, ie, celibate homosexuals are not in sin.

 

The thing is, I'm a heterosexual male but I still struggle with and sin with lust, and it comes from a lot of different ways and one of those can easily be the idea of homosexual women together. Naturally, I am not attracted to the idea of two men together, because I am not attracted to men. I think it has equal weight with both sexes, but one of the two is much easier to reinforce and believe because I'm not tempted to think differently.

 

Have you ever believed something to be right or wrong but struggled with the temptation against it as such? It's the exact same thing. Admittedly, many focus specifically on men, sometimes because of bigotry, sometimes because our culture has made lesbianism more acceptable and not as fringe, and sometimes because of other reasons. But there are plenty that don't fixate specifically on gay men but on gay people in general, even if it sometimes in spite of what our bodies tell us.

That's a good explanation, LOMS.

I concur. That pretty much sums it up to a T. That post should end this discussion in my opinion. I dont really know what else could be said.

[Someone]

I think you are saying that being attracted to the same sex but not have lustful thoughts or actions is not a moral violation.

 

Likewise, any lustful thoughts and actions of an unmarried person are equally immoral.

 

Not being a virgin (male) at your wedding is just as bad as being gay - correct?

 

Is a Gay Celibate male better than hetersexual non-virgin male in the eyes of whoever is passing judgement?

[Count 'Bility]

I think you are saying that being attracted to the same sex but not have lustful thoughts or actions is not a moral violation.

 

Likewise, any lustful thoughts and actions of an unmarried person are equally immoral.

 

Not being a virgin (male) at your wedding is just as bad as being gay - correct?

 

Is a Gay Celibate male better than hetersexual non-virgin male in the eyes of whoever is passing judgement?

I think youre reading too much into it. Youre trying to interpret it, like a senator with the constitution. You dont need to interpret anything. It says what it says.

[Landlord]

I think you are saying that being attracted to the same sex but not have lustful thoughts or actions is not a moral violation.

 

Likewise, any lustful thoughts and actions of an unmarried person are equally immoral.

 

Not being a virgin (male) at your wedding is just as bad as being gay - correct?

 

Is a Gay Celibate male better than hetersexual non-virgin male in the eyes of whoever is passing judgement?

 

 

Yes, that is what I am saying, except with the removal of the "just as bad" and "better" language. Might seem like a nitpick but it's an important distinction from the Christian perspective.

 

So, I'll use myself as an example. Heterosexual, non-virgin male. I've sinned lustfully in action and thought just as much as anyone and it's not something I wear proudly. But, I went through a process of conviction and repentance and am now actively pursuing purity and obedience. This doesn't make me better than I was before, nor does it make me worse than anyone else because of what I have done in the past, but it does mean that I am acting in accordance with Christ's will and nature. Sexual purity isn't a "once lost always gone" sort of item that we own, but it's a position that we stand in. Likewise, a celibate gay individual (if they are being celibate with the purpose of glorifying Christ) is being obedient and seeking purity moreso than a heterosexual virgin male who might not have ever touched a woman but constantly fantasizes and lusts internally.

[Someone]

If it says what it says (refering to Landlords post) then "sexual relations, activities or thoughts outside of Marriage" is the sin.

 

Not sexual actions or thoughts = no sin.

 

Having an attraction to and even dating same sex persons is NOT sexual relations any more than having an attraction to and dating a member of the opposite sex.

 

Therefore, being gay isn't the issue. Virginity, or lack there of (in thought or deed) is where Landlord seems the line drawn, although through deeds and actions, one can repent and be pure again, so to speak.

 

I don't believe alot of christian groups feel the same way as Landlord but I am glad there are many open and affirming christian churches.

[carlfense]

Not being a virgin (male) at your wedding is just as bad as being gay - correct?

If my understanding is correct that's not possible because marriage in the biblical sense is intercourse but I suppose that depends on your preferred flavor of christianity.

[BigRedBuster]

Problem is, whenever I see two lesbians in public, they are never as hot as they are in the movies.

You wish that the gay people that you are observing were more attractive?

 

There's that double standard again. Gay men? Gross. Gay women? If they're hot!

 

So strange.

 

Why Is That Strange?

Because if homosexuality is morally wrong (which is what the religious argument seems to be) it is surely morally wrong for both sexes.

 

The fixation on gay men makes me think that it's not about morality or religion.

 

You assume morality equates to gross or being "icky".

 

There are lots of things that aren't immoral but are gross and lots of things that are gross that are not immoral.

[Blackshirts007]

Problem is, whenever I see two lesbians in public, they are never as hot as they are in the movies.

You wish that the gay people that you are observing were more attractive?

 

There's that double standard again. Gay men? Gross. Gay women? If they're hot!

 

So strange.

 

Why Is That Strange?

why are we talking about the "strange?" hehe