Thousands of barrels of oil leak from pipeline

[beanman]

If we are that worried about water then we shoudn't support ethanol like we do.

 

I don't. Pretty sure that's just the government's way of making farmers happy so they can get re-elected. It takes about 3 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol. Couple with that a net energy balance of maybe 1.5, and I don't understand why it's pushed so hard.

[Count 'Bility]

If we are that worried about water then we shoudn't support ethanol like we do.

 

I don't. Pretty sure that's just the government's way of making farmers happy so they can get re-elected. It takes about 3 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol. Couple with that a net energy balance of maybe 1.5, and I don't understand why it's pushed so hard.

I dont either. Ethanol is a f'ing joke. One day, that little experiment is going to come crashing down on all of us. mark my word. Then the panic begins.

[clyde40]

If we are that worried about water then we shoudn't support ethanol like we do.

 

I don't. Pretty sure that's just the government's way of making farmers happy so they can get re-elected. It takes about 3 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol. Couple with that a net energy balance of maybe 1.5, and I don't understand why it's pushed so hard.

I dont either. Ethanol is a f'ing joke. One day, that little experiment is going to come crashing down on all of us. mark my word. Then the panic begins.

It wouldn't be so bad if we could make it out of sugarcane like Brazil, but it won't grow here. With sugarcane all the extra water and natural gas isn't needed. As for the pipeline I want to clarrify that I was never for or against it. I was just trying to add in tid-bits for the sake of argument. My big problem was that nobody could give any straigt answers. It was never said how safe it would actually be or what, if any damage, could be done. Since an aquifer is a layer of rock in which water can be extracted that's obviously going to be different than dumping it in an ocean. Then once politics got involved any credibility that was there was lost.

[Count 'Bility]

If we are that worried about water then we shoudn't support ethanol like we do.

 

I don't. Pretty sure that's just the government's way of making farmers happy so they can get re-elected. It takes about 3 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol. Couple with that a net energy balance of maybe 1.5, and I don't understand why it's pushed so hard.

I dont either. Ethanol is a f'ing joke. One day, that little experiment is going to come crashing down on all of us. mark my word. Then the panic begins.

It wouldn't be so bad if we could make it out of sugarcane like Brazil, but it won't grow here. With sugarcane all the extra water and natural gas isn't needed. As for the pipeline I want to clarrify that I was never for or against it. I was just trying to add in tid-bits for the sake of argument. My big problem was that nobody could give any straigt answers. It was never said how safe it would actually be or what, if any damage, could be done. Since an aquifer is a layer of rock in which water can be extracted that's obviously going to be different than dumping it in an ocean. Then once politics got involved any credibility that was there was lost.

I gotcha. I gotcha.

 

The sugarcane thing is a fact. Brazil has had mucho success with that. It is unfortunate. But we as a country have the tools necassary to tap into all sorts of different energy sources for different requirements. It has to be a joint effort, not just relying on one source as we are now.

 

The thing with the pipeline is it's our ground water. It's not worth the risk in my eyes. We need to find other means so why not now. Why go through with the risks of this pipeline now.

 

Politics ruined the process of the pipeline, but politics were behind the idea of it to begin with.

[jsneb83]

So what happens when you mix oil and water again?

 

This:

 

 

I can understand the problems a spill would cause with wildlife and environment but oil and water will not mix. And furthermore it's not like the aquifer is a huge underground lake or river.

Oil is less dense than water, which means that it will stay on top of the water. It can also fill the cracks in the rocks where the water flows through to replenish the aquifer, which can affect the level. I think it is best that water and oil are not mixed (no pun intended).

[strigori]

If we are that worried about water then we shoudn't support ethanol like we do.

 

I don't. Pretty sure that's just the government's way of making farmers happy so they can get re-elected. It takes about 3 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol. Couple with that a net energy balance of maybe 1.5, and I don't understand why it's pushed so hard.

I dont either. Ethanol is a f'ing joke. One day, that little experiment is going to come crashing down on all of us. mark my word. Then the panic begins.

Ties in with all the pro-corn policies we have. We subsidize corn, and put corn syrup in damned near everything, because its cheaper than sugar. Because we tariff the hell out of sugar to protect a few Florida families. To say nothing of the compete waste of turning food into fuel.

[Count 'Bility]

I live in Hastings. We have a couple of very large and reputable ethanol plants right outside of town. My boss was on the city council at the time. He had to take a man from Sweden on some sort of tour throughout our east side industrial complex a few years back. The man asked about the ethanol plants. What they were. What they did. My boss obviously explained to him about ethanol and it's origination and uses. The man laughed. Literally laughed. "Why you waste food for fuel?" He said. Then he explained the tremendous diesel technology in Europe and such. He got quite a kick out of our ethanol "experiment"

 

I said it earlier. This ethanol kick is gonna come crashing down on everyone at some point. Of the those plants outside of town already had to close the corn ethanol plant portion because of the drop in oil prices, that they were making less than a 1/4 cent profit per gallon of ethanol produced. The oil companies are going to start driving the price of oil down to hurt these plants and when they start dropping, they'll have their monopoly back.

 

There has to be another means produced. I've read a lot about Natural Gas. Where I work, we sell polyethylene pipe used underground in the supply of Natural gas to irrigation motors. This conversion of irrigation motors from diesel to Natty gas is big business right now. We've sold hundreds of miles of this pipe over the last couple years. Relative of mine has 5 motors. 4 on Natty gas. 1 on diesel last year during the drought. It was the first year for the Natty gas on the 4 motors. He ran those 4 motors for just a hair over the cost of the one. This technology needs to be advanced as well as numerous others.

[74Hunter]

If we are that worried about water then we shoudn't support ethanol like we do.

 

I don't. Pretty sure that's just the government's way of making farmers happy so they can get re-elected. It takes about 3 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol. Couple with that a net energy balance of maybe 1.5, and I don't understand why it's pushed so hard.

I dont either. Ethanol is a f'ing joke. One day, that little experiment is going to come crashing down on all of us. mark my word. Then the panic begins.

Like. I won't buy ethanol at current prices. A dirty little secret: when I use zero ethanol gas, I get about 2 MPG more than when I use 10% ethanol, the difference between 15 and 17 MPG, fwiw. The 10-12 cents a gallon savings isn't worth it. I can burn E-85, but milage drops to about 12 MPG in town. On the highway its not bad though, as long as I don't drive over 70.

[clyde40]

That's how it is with my pick-up. It usually costs me two dollars more to fuel up with regular gas and I can go about 40 miles more on a full tank. You actually save money not burning ethanol.

[ZRod]

Like. I won't buy ethanol at current prices. A dirty little secret: when I use zero ethanol gas, I get about 2 MPG more than when I use 10% ethanol, the difference between 15 and 17 MPG, fwiw. The 10-12 cents a gallon savings isn't worth it. I can burn E-85, but milage drops to about 12 MPG in town. On the highway its not bad though, as long as I don't drive over 70.

Nothing can compete with the stored energy per unit mass of gasoline, which is why you get better mileage out of it, but ethanol burns much cleaner than gasoline.

[Count 'Bility]

That's because ethanol is less efficient guys. Why do you think the price is 5-10 cents cheaper? why do you think diesel is 40-50 cents higher? Why is E85 40-50 cents cheaper (at least at one time it was) It all equals out. Standard regular gasoline is the best thing for your vehicls components anyway, regardless of the year. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise.

[beanman]

If we are that worried about water then we shoudn't support ethanol like we do.

 

I don't. Pretty sure that's just the government's way of making farmers happy so they can get re-elected. It takes about 3 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol. Couple with that a net energy balance of maybe 1.5, and I don't understand why it's pushed so hard.

I dont either. Ethanol is a f'ing joke. One day, that little experiment is going to come crashing down on all of us. mark my word. Then the panic begins.

Like. I won't buy ethanol at current prices. A dirty little secret: when I use zero ethanol gas, I get about 2 MPG more than when I use 10% ethanol, the difference between 15 and 17 MPG, fwiw. The 10-12 cents a gallon savings isn't worth it. I can burn E-85, but milage drops to about 12 MPG in town. On the highway its not bad though, as long as I don't drive over 70.

 

I don't think that's a secret about the mileage being worse.

[beanman]

Like. I won't buy ethanol at current prices. A dirty little secret: when I use zero ethanol gas, I get about 2 MPG more than when I use 10% ethanol, the difference between 15 and 17 MPG, fwiw. The 10-12 cents a gallon savings isn't worth it. I can burn E-85, but milage drops to about 12 MPG in town. On the highway its not bad though, as long as I don't drive over 70.

Nothing can compete with the stored energy per unit mass of gasoline, which is why you get better mileage out of it, but ethanol burns much cleaner than gasoline.

 

Not true. My rice rocket is run off nuclear.

[sd'sker]

they promised the pipeline would bring jobs. we just did not know that the jobs would come from having to clean up oil spills.

[TGHusker]

If we WANT to get the oil to Houston, a pipeline is the smartest way to get it there. (and I would prefer if it didn't go through the sandhills.)

 

However, we don't NEED to get the oil to Houston.

How about this . . . if TransCanada insists that Houston is the only viable destination we have them pay a flat fee per barrel of oil transported. That money would go into a trust fund (up to a certain amount) that would be used to clean any environmental mishaps. Once the account is fully funded any additional fees collected go to reducing the budget deficit.

Great idea.