Thousands of barrels of oil leak from pipeline

[TGHusker]

I live in Hastings. We have a couple of very large and reputable ethanol plants right outside of town. My boss was on the city council at the time. He had to take a man from Sweden on some sort of tour throughout our east side industrial complex a few years back. The man asked about the ethanol plants. What they were. What they did. My boss obviously explained to him about ethanol and it's origination and uses. The man laughed. Literally laughed. "Why you waste food for fuel?" He said. Then he explained the tremendous diesel technology in Europe and such. He got quite a kick out of our ethanol "experiment"

 

I said it earlier. This ethanol kick is gonna come crashing down on everyone at some point. Of the those plants outside of town already had to close the corn ethanol plant portion because of the drop in oil prices, that they were making less than a 1/4 cent profit per gallon of ethanol produced. The oil companies are going to start driving the price of oil down to hurt these plants and when they start dropping, they'll have their monopoly back.

 

There has to be another means produced. I've read a lot about Natural Gas. Where I work, we sell polyethylene pipe used underground in the supply of Natural gas to irrigation motors. This conversion of irrigation motors from diesel to Natty gas is big business right now. We've sold hundreds of miles of this pipe over the last couple years. Relative of mine has 5 motors. 4 on Natty gas. 1 on diesel last year during the drought. It was the first year for the Natty gas on the 4 motors. He ran those 4 motors for just a hair over the cost of the one. This technology needs to be advanced as well as numerous others.

There is more of a push for Natural Gas cars, etc in Okla as well - Of course Ok is one of the highest ng producing states - there has been more discussion about distribution. While here in Tulsa we have several NG outlets, if you want to travel the interstate you better have the switch to turn to regular gas. If a vialbe distribution system can be created, we could wean ourselves off of regular gas and opec and NG could be one of the long term cleaner alternatives to gas

[strigori]

That's because ethanol is less efficient guys. Why do you think the price is 5-10 cents cheaper? why do you think diesel is 40-50 cents higher? Why is E85 40-50 cents cheaper (at least at one time it was) It all equals out. Standard regular gasoline is the best thing for your vehicls components anyway, regardless of the year. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise.

Unless your car specifically says 'use only premium unleaded' I had one that had a 91 octane requirement, the owners manual said something to the effect of "Failure to use 91 octane or higher will result in a persistent clucking, which if continued will result in engine damage"

But for 99% of the cars thats true.

[Count 'Bility]

That's because ethanol is less efficient guys. Why do you think the price is 5-10 cents cheaper? why do you think diesel is 40-50 cents higher? Why is E85 40-50 cents cheaper (at least at one time it was) It all equals out. Standard regular gasoline is the best thing for your vehicls components anyway, regardless of the year. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise.

Unless your car specifically says 'use only premium unleaded' I had one that had a 91 octane requirement, the owners manual said something to the effect of "Failure to use 91 octane or higher will result in a persistent clucking, which if continued will result in engine damage"

But for 99% of the cars thats true.

Well, yes. I left that out because of the rarity and because it was kind of irrelevant to my point. That's for high performance packages with higher compression or for really small motors with higher compression. I may be preaching to the choir here, but higher octane fuel has less of a tendancy to ignite under high compression or high ambient heat conditions. Basically it takes a spark and spark alone to do so. If you were to get a motor super hot with standard gasoline and try to shut it off, it would diesel-the fuel being ignited by the heat of the motor itself. Or in a performance motor with higher compression, the compression alone could cause ignition prior to top-dead center position, hence forcing the piston back down, when it's supposed to be on it's way up. Just an early ignition. That's where damage happens. It can break valve, spin bearing, bust timing chains/belts, and even brake rods and cranks. So yes, after my novel, if you are required to be burning premium higher octane fuel, do so. Dont ever use less.

 

Also do not use E85 type high octane fuel as a substitute unless you ahve a flex fuel able vehicle. High octane from ethanol and high octane from premium conventional gasoline are two completely different animals.

 

In our derby motors, we use high octane race fuel, upwards in the 112/114 range-in stockish type motors that only require 87 octaine for the sole purupose that when these motors get upwards of 300-350 degrees, the fuel doesnt premptively ignite and cause serious damage.

[HSKR]

I live in Hastings. We have a couple of very large and reputable ethanol plants right outside of town. My boss was on the city council at the time. He had to take a man from Sweden on some sort of tour throughout our east side industrial complex a few years back. The man asked about the ethanol plants. What they were. What they did. My boss obviously explained to him about ethanol and it's origination and uses. The man laughed. Literally laughed. "Why you waste food for fuel?" He said. Then he explained the tremendous diesel technology in Europe and such. He got quite a kick out of our ethanol "experiment"

 

I said it earlier. This ethanol kick is gonna come crashing down on everyone at some point. Of the those plants outside of town already had to close the corn ethanol plant portion because of the drop in oil prices, that they were making less than a 1/4 cent profit per gallon of ethanol produced. The oil companies are going to start driving the price of oil down to hurt these plants and when they start dropping, they'll have their monopoly back.

 

There has to be another means produced. I've read a lot about Natural Gas. Where I work, we sell polyethylene pipe used underground in the supply of Natural gas to irrigation motors. This conversion of irrigation motors from diesel to Natty gas is big business right now. We've sold hundreds of miles of this pipe over the last couple years. Relative of mine has 5 motors. 4 on Natty gas. 1 on diesel last year during the drought. It was the first year for the Natty gas on the 4 motors. He ran those 4 motors for just a hair over the cost of the one. This technology needs to be advanced as well as numerous others.

 

 

I'm not here to play defender of ethanol but I can't agree that oil companies will be what does it in, corn prices will. Ethanol was a great idea when corn was $2.10 a bushel and the supply was overabundant. If demand and prices for corn continues to stay this high ethanol will be gone sooner then later. Just go ask all those geniuses who bought corn stoves how that's working out for them. If the guy from Sweden thought it was crazy to convert it to ethanol, he would have been in disbelief to straight up burn it for heat for in house. At least with ethanol you get some useful byproducts out of it, like distillers grain or gluten that you can feed to livestock.

[Count 'Bility]

I live in Hastings. We have a couple of very large and reputable ethanol plants right outside of town. My boss was on the city council at the time. He had to take a man from Sweden on some sort of tour throughout our east side industrial complex a few years back. The man asked about the ethanol plants. What they were. What they did. My boss obviously explained to him about ethanol and it's origination and uses. The man laughed. Literally laughed. "Why you waste food for fuel?" He said. Then he explained the tremendous diesel technology in Europe and such. He got quite a kick out of our ethanol "experiment"

 

I said it earlier. This ethanol kick is gonna come crashing down on everyone at some point. Of the those plants outside of town already had to close the corn ethanol plant portion because of the drop in oil prices, that they were making less than a 1/4 cent profit per gallon of ethanol produced. The oil companies are going to start driving the price of oil down to hurt these plants and when they start dropping, they'll have their monopoly back.

 

There has to be another means produced. I've read a lot about Natural Gas. Where I work, we sell polyethylene pipe used underground in the supply of Natural gas to irrigation motors. This conversion of irrigation motors from diesel to Natty gas is big business right now. We've sold hundreds of miles of this pipe over the last couple years. Relative of mine has 5 motors. 4 on Natty gas. 1 on diesel last year during the drought. It was the first year for the Natty gas on the 4 motors. He ran those 4 motors for just a hair over the cost of the one. This technology needs to be advanced as well as numerous others.

 

 

I'm not here to play defender of ethanol but I can't agree that oil companies will be what does it in, corn prices will. Ethanol was a great idea when corn was $2.10 a bushel and the supply was overabundant. If demand and prices for corn continues to stay this high ethanol will be gone sooner then later. Just go ask all those geniuses who bought corn stoves how that's working out for them. If the guy from Sweden thought it was crazy to convert it to ethanol, he would have been in disbelief to straight up burn it for heat for in house. At least with ethanol you get some useful byproducts out of it, like distillers grain or gluten that you can feed to livestock.

True. But it's pretty much all full circle. We're agreeing to disagree (or is it disagreeing to agree). With corn being so high, the margins have become thinner and thinner, thus pushing ethanol closer to that edge. It takes the oil industry even less effort to push it over the brink. It was a concerted effort of the oil industry and the ethanol industry itself to get it to this point.

 

Yes, the oil industry does have that much power to manipulate. And it is sad that it is still not being addressed with any sort of legitimacy.

 

Also the cornbelt-wide drought last year didnt help none. Supply took a huge hit.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

The word "unreliable" comes to mind when I think of these pipelines. I don't want anything unreliable when it comes to the world's largest underground aquifer.

[HSKR]

The word "unreliable" comes to mind when I think of these pipelines. I don't want anything unreliable when it comes to the world's largest underground aquifer.

 

 

What do you think of the thousands of miles of pipelines already buried in Nebraska? Dig them out? Truck everything in instead? Go back to horse and buggy?

[HSKR]

I live in Hastings. We have a couple of very large and reputable ethanol plants right outside of town. My boss was on the city council at the time. He had to take a man from Sweden on some sort of tour throughout our east side industrial complex a few years back. The man asked about the ethanol plants. What they were. What they did. My boss obviously explained to him about ethanol and it's origination and uses. The man laughed. Literally laughed. "Why you waste food for fuel?" He said. Then he explained the tremendous diesel technology in Europe and such. He got quite a kick out of our ethanol "experiment"

 

I said it earlier. This ethanol kick is gonna come crashing down on everyone at some point. Of the those plants outside of town already had to close the corn ethanol plant portion because of the drop in oil prices, that they were making less than a 1/4 cent profit per gallon of ethanol produced. The oil companies are going to start driving the price of oil down to hurt these plants and when they start dropping, they'll have their monopoly back.

 

There has to be another means produced. I've read a lot about Natural Gas. Where I work, we sell polyethylene pipe used underground in the supply of Natural gas to irrigation motors. This conversion of irrigation motors from diesel to Natty gas is big business right now. We've sold hundreds of miles of this pipe over the last couple years. Relative of mine has 5 motors. 4 on Natty gas. 1 on diesel last year during the drought. It was the first year for the Natty gas on the 4 motors. He ran those 4 motors for just a hair over the cost of the one. This technology needs to be advanced as well as numerous others.

 

 

I'm not here to play defender of ethanol but I can't agree that oil companies will be what does it in, corn prices will. Ethanol was a great idea when corn was $2.10 a bushel and the supply was overabundant. If demand and prices for corn continues to stay this high ethanol will be gone sooner then later. Just go ask all those geniuses who bought corn stoves how that's working out for them. If the guy from Sweden thought it was crazy to convert it to ethanol, he would have been in disbelief to straight up burn it for heat for in house. At least with ethanol you get some useful byproducts out of it, like distillers grain or gluten that you can feed to livestock.

True. But it's pretty much all full circle. We're agreeing to disagree (or is it disagreeing to agree). With corn being so high, the margins have become thinner and thinner, thus pushing ethanol closer to that edge. It takes the oil industry even less effort to push it over the brink. It was a concerted effort of the oil industry and the ethanol industry itself to get it to this point.

 

Yes, the oil industry does have that much power to manipulate. And it is sad that it is still not being addressed with any sort of legitimacy.

 

Also the cornbelt-wide drought last year didnt help none. Supply took a huge hit.

 

No not really. As I said before if corn was $2 a bushel it wouldn't be an issue, big oil would have little influence. Now take away ethanol's subsidies then it would have troubles even at low corn prices which by the way I am all for. I say get rid of subsidies for ethanol but at the same time get rid of them for coal, oil, natural gas, solar and wind. Let the market dictate what is most feasible.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

No, I understand the need for the pipeline, and its importance. But, oil can spill anywhere else...and with the fail safes installed, cause damage, but not as much as to call it catastrophic. If/When they build this thing, they better make sure that there is something keeping it from the aquifer.

 

Damage to land and oceans is one thing, damage to drinking water is another

[knapplc]

What do you think of the thousands of miles of pipelines already buried in Nebraska? Dig them out? Truck everything in instead? Go back to horse and buggy?

 

This is a good question. While I'm not exactly "for" the XL Pipeline, I'm not really against it. There are already dozens of pipelines across Nebraska. The XL would carry a greater volume than any other single pipeline currently in the state, but other than that... I don't see the fuss.

 

If people are afraid of the environmental impact, fine. But where was this outcry when the other pipelines went in? It makes me think that the underlying cause for this uproar has nothing to do with the environment. The Environmentalists have just been co-opted by someone else to fight this battle.

 

HUGE pic below.

 

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

What do you think of the thousands of miles of pipelines already buried in Nebraska? Dig them out? Truck everything in instead? Go back to horse and buggy?

 

This is a good question. While I'm not exactly "for" the XL Pipeline, I'm not really against it. There are already half a dozen pipelines across Nebraska. The XL would carry a greater volume than any other single pipeline currently in the state, but other than that... I don't see the fuss.

 

If people are afraid of the environmental impact, fine. But where was this outcry when the other pipelines went in? It makes me think that the underlying cause for this uproar has nothing to do with the environment. The Environmentalists have just been co-opted by someone else to fight this battle.

 

 

I pretty much agree with this. I'm still not for it for reasons I have stated earlier in this thread.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

I'm thinking it might have something to do with the company making the pipeline. Why do you not hear an uproar about the other pipes? How many times have they failed?

[sd'sker]

i just do not get how this happens. do we not have the technology to pipe oil without spills?

[BigRedBuster]

Anytime you have something mechanical, it is going to eventually wear out or break. However, we do have the technology to greatly reduce the spills when they happen. And, this pipe line is supposed to have all the latest technology.

[sd'sker]

i do not know the first thing about laying pipe (ask my wife), but are there no precautions or safety valve type mechanisms to completely avoid, or at least mitigate, spills?