Armstrong Leading the QB Race

[True2tRA]

He can and he will.

[kchusker_chris]

I don't care what Armstrong can do with his legs. Unless he's the second coming of Touchdown Tommie he needs to be able to pass at or near 60%, without throwing picks, or our offense is going to stagnate.

 

We have a pretty good corps of WR: Bell, Turner, Westerkamp, Allen, Burtch, Moore... all of these guys will be wasted without an effective passing QB.

 

Maybe it's blasphemy to say at Nebraska, but this offense may need more Zac Taylor than Tommie Frazier. Abdullah, Cross, Newby, Taylor, maybe Wilbon - these guys can handle the load on the ground. If Armstrong any quarterback can't deliver strikes downfield, what good does he do us?

 

100% agree.

[Touchdown Tommie]

 

 

Not every running QB is a blazer. Actually, a lot of them are tough, big, inside runners with a good feel for going through traffic and lowering their shoulder. That's what we have in Tommy. He won't sprint past safeties certainly, but he certainly ran with authority. I think guys like Tebow, Stanton, Bubba Starling were/are the same way.

 

It's not the highlight reels that count, it's the every run and read and pitch. I think the bigger worry would be his decision making in the passing game. Particularly if we do a lot of short throwing, which Beck seems to prefer.

This. Tebow, Cam, Vince, big guys who ran with authority, ability to make guys miss and get the tougher yards. Frost, Frasier for NU. Not blazers, but got the tough yards. You throw in a healthy dose of Cross that makes DB's less than willing to come and lay the wood and it opens up lanes for a tough running QB like TA. Martinez was a phenomenal crease runner. I have never seen a quicker straight line guy than Martinez, doubt I ever will. BUT, he had no ability to make guys miss or steam roll a guy. TA runs angry. Like he has something to prove. If he can make it to the 2nd level, I feel comfortable in his ability to either make a guy miss or truck him. DB's get hit enough, they might come up to support the run, but they will start whiffing to avoid getting hit.

 

Lean on the running game. Call PA to open the lanes and get them out of the box. If he can get that long ball down, use the speed of Bell and JT to stretch the field to open the box. Allow TA to manage the game and lean on the RB's. Call high percentage passes that he can do in his sleep. If he can't complete them in practice at a high percentage, trash them. 70% or better (for example) keep them.

 

Bama has made a living with game managing QB's who get the ball to the RB's, have a handful of high yield passes and don't fumble, take a sack or throw many INT's.

If the oline can do well on the running game it will be huge. They need to play with a nastiness that had not been seen here for a while! If this happens and A Meer and company run well, Beck better mix in play action to our guys who are solid on the perimeter.

I am nervous that Beck will not be run first and set the offense up for 2nd/3rd and longs because of this.

If Tommy can get the job done by being smart with his throws and running hard keep him going baby!

[74Hunter]

If Armstrong, was in a Tom Osborne offense, he would be lethal.

A guy with a 3 ypc average, 52% completion percentage, the propensity to fumble, and 1 to 1 TD/INT ratio wouldn't be lethal in any offense.

[kchusker_chris]

 

If Armstrong, was in a Tom Osborne offense, he would be lethal.

A guy with a 3 ypc average, 52% completion percentage, the propensity to fumble, and 1 to 1 TD/INT ratio wouldn't be lethal in any offense.

 

[74Hunter]

 

 

If Armstrong, was in a Tom Osborne offense, he would be lethal.

 

A guy with a 3 ypc average, 52% completion percentage, the propensity to fumble, and 1 to 1 TD/INT ratio wouldn't be lethal in any offense.

Please elaborate.

[zoogs]

I don't care what Armstrong can do with his legs. Unless he's the second coming of Touchdown Tommie he needs to be able to pass at or near 60%, without throwing picks, or our offense is going to stagnate.

 

We have a pretty good corps of WR: Bell, Turner, Westerkamp, Allen, Burtch, Moore... all of these guys will be wasted without an effective passing QB.

 

Maybe it's blasphemy to say at Nebraska, but this offense may need more Zac Taylor than Tommie Frazier. Abdullah, Cross, Newby, Taylor, maybe Wilbon - these guys can handle the load on the ground. If Armstrong any quarterback can't deliver strikes downfield, what good does he do us?

I've felt this way about our QBs in general for a while now. Not only that, but our immense receiving talent in recent years.

 

But, that doesn't seem to be the direction we've been heading. Both Bo & Beck seem to really want a guy that can function in the running game ('force the defense to defend 11-on-11', as they've said) and also to make a great commitment to running the ball (which is OK, but it requires the QB to be an important part of that and comes at the cost of utilizing the receivers fully). There seems to be some tug-of-war here, and some feel that Beck would prefer a more balanced split and sometimes takes us in that direction.

 

That's not who Armstrong is, though. However, I still think he can run a hypothetical offense very well. Yes, our RBs are more than enough to carry the load. But he brings the option game, maybe the zone read game as well into play, and gives the defense one more runner to think about. Three or four yards a pop isn't glamorous, except when it's consistent, keeps us on schedule, and grinds drives away along with the clock. And he clearly has the arm to take the top off the defense. We've seen him launch strike after strike downfield, which are low percentage throws for any QB, but even when they fail to connect, they force the defense to account for it. With deep threats like Kenny Bell, this could be a very effective, very cohesive attack, whether or not it comes with pretty completion stats.

 

Our short passing game IMO hasn't done much for us, when combined with a lack of deep threat. You'd have to get to Zac Taylor / Joe Ganz levels of WCO efficiency for it to be a part of our game that threatens the defense constantly (and I'm sure if you go back and look, Zac's stats weren't all that earth shattering. And yet, you knew what he was bringing to the table). I think this lack of a dangerous short passing game will continue. There's nothing about our QBs' skillsets that would lead me to think different. Stanton is very young. Our passing game will, or should be, reduced to a change-up role.

 

With that comes the continued waste of excellent and athletic slot receiver types like Jamal Turner (and maybe Westerkamp and Alonzo Moore after him). If we ran that kind of spread passing attack, I feel we'd see these guys put up insane numbers and become household names across the country. It just doesn't really seem to be what the team is overall best geared towards, but they'll still make impacts -- blocking, huge catches here and there.

[knapplc]

Agreed, zoogies, and that's the rub. It seems like we're getting pieces for an offense we don't run, or at least don't run consistently.

 

When they're on they're really on (at least under Martinez the last few years) but when they're off... it's half a disaster.

[kchusker_chris]

 

Please elaborate.

 

 

nothing to elaborate on. it was funny how true your statement is.

[RyouN?]

 

If Armstrong, was in a Tom Osborne offense, he would be lethal.

A guy with a 3 ypc average, 52% completion percentage, the propensity to fumble, and 1 to 1 TD/INT ratio wouldn't be lethal in any offense.

 

Yes I'm sure Crouch, Frost, Frazier etc. would have epic numbers in Becks offense too. You haven't seen glimpses of Tommy being a premiere option quarterback? With barely any repetitions, he has shown to be a pretty good one (as an option qb). I don't think applying his numbers in a offense that lacks identity and direction is relevant to how successful he would have been in a TO offense.

[True2tRA]

You are so spot on Zoogies. Your last bit about the wasted talent of Jamal Turner and athletes like that I totally agree with. This tug of war on what type of offense we run is interesting to me. That short passing game is exactly what Becks resume' was built on, and if I had to bet, it's what he's wanted all along. Personally I think we are headed in that direction and I think some underestimate Armstrongs capabilities in that type of offense. An offense like that is built around timing. Taylor never had it. Too uncomfortable in the pocket, and too apprehensive letting the ball go. Couldn't blame him could we? On a mistake prone team, he questioned every decision he made. Tommy is a bit more relaxed. His comfort level is there and his timing is definitely going to be developed. This isn't something that happens overnight.

 

With a rushing attack like ours, there has to be a constant debate on what this offense needs to be. I'm sure Bo wants to manage the clock and play good defense. No high risk, grind it out type of football. Defensively we just haven't been able to live up to that challenge. While I think the defense is getting back on track, I also think Beck has finally got a lot of the tools he's needed in his offense. Especially at QB. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the coming two seasons. Right now,nunless we have drastic improvement from Tommy as far as read and recognition, and timing, I would expect our mindset would be to run first every time. Still I expect to see Beck trying to implement that short passing attack. Even though it might really piss us all off when it goes bad.

[BigRedBuster]

 

I don't care what Armstrong can do with his legs. Unless he's the second coming of Touchdown Tommie he needs to be able to pass at or near 60%, without throwing picks, or our offense is going to stagnate.

 

We have a pretty good corps of WR: Bell, Turner, Westerkamp, Allen, Burtch, Moore... all of these guys will be wasted without an effective passing QB.

 

Maybe it's blasphemy to say at Nebraska, but this offense may need more Zac Taylor than Tommie Frazier. Abdullah, Cross, Newby, Taylor, maybe Wilbon - these guys can handle the load on the ground. If Armstrong any quarterback can't deliver strikes downfield, what good does he do us?

I've felt this way about our QBs in general for a while now. Not only that, but our immense receiving talent in recent years.

 

But, that doesn't seem to be the direction we've been heading. Both Bo & Beck seem to really want a guy that can function in the running game ('force the defense to defend 11-on-11', as they've said) and also to make a great commitment to running the ball (which is OK, but it requires the QB to be an important part of that and comes at the cost of utilizing the receivers fully). There seems to be some tug-of-war here, and some feel that Beck would prefer a more balanced split and sometimes takes us in that direction.

 

That's not who Armstrong is, though. However, I still think he can run a hypothetical offense very well. Yes, our RBs are more than enough to carry the load. But he brings the option game, maybe the zone read game as well into play, and gives the defense one more runner to think about. Three or four yards a pop isn't glamorous, except when it's consistent, keeps us on schedule, and grinds drives away along with the clock. And he clearly has the arm to take the top off the defense. We've seen him launch strike after strike downfield, which are low percentage throws for any QB, but even when they fail to connect, they force the defense to account for it. With deep threats like Kenny Bell, this could be a very effective, very cohesive attack, whether or not it comes with pretty completion stats.

 

Our short passing game IMO hasn't done much for us, when combined with a lack of deep threat. You'd have to get to Zac Taylor / Joe Ganz levels of WCO efficiency for it to be a part of our game that threatens the defense constantly (and I'm sure if you go back and look, Zac's stats weren't all that earth shattering. And yet, you knew what he was bringing to the table). I think this lack of a dangerous short passing game will continue. There's nothing about our QBs' skillsets that would lead me to think different. Stanton is very young. Our passing game will, or should be, reduced to a change-up role.

 

With that comes the continued waste of excellent and athletic slot receiver types like Jamal Turner (and maybe Westerkamp and Alonzo Moore after him). If we ran that kind of spread passing attack, I feel we'd see these guys put up insane numbers and become household names across the country. It just doesn't really seem to be what the team is overall best geared towards, but they'll still make impacts -- blocking, huge catches here and there.

 

 

Agreed, zoogies, and that's the rub. It seems like we're getting pieces for an offense we don't run, or at least don't run consistently.

 

When they're on they're really on (at least under Martinez the last few years) but when they're off... it's half a disaster.

Soooo.....the coaches are supposed to stop recruiting top receivers?

 

The only thing we know about our passing offense right now is what we don't know. We don't know how good Armstrong is going to be. To me, last year he proved he could throw down field pretty well. He lacked the ability to read defenses in the short passing game. Because of that, I'm not sure we can make a judgement on how accurate he is at that part of the game. Reading defenses is something that a second year QB can take a HUGE jump in. That, along with being "the guy" over spring, summer and fall camp with the starting WRs. I expect we will see a big jump in his passing game all the way around. No, we aren't going to see 72% completion rate with 40 passes per game. I don't think anyone even wants to get to that point in this offense. But, I expect we will see a very different Armstrong this year.

 

We have weapons at every position in this offense. There is no reason why we can't utilize them all. If Armstrong can improve on reading defense and in turn cut down on turn overs, that would really really make this offense cause DCs to not sleep well.

[74Hunter]

 

Please elaborate.

 

nothing to elaborate on. it was funny how true your statement is.

Gotcha, thanks!!

[74Hunter]

 

 

If Armstrong, was in a Tom Osborne offense, he would be lethal.

 

A guy with a 3 ypc average, 52% completion percentage, the propensity to fumble, and 1 to 1 TD/INT ratio wouldn't be lethal in any offense.

Yes I'm sure Crouch, Frost, Frazier etc. would have epic numbers in Becks offense too. You haven't seen glimpses of Tommy being a premiere option quarterback? With barely any repetitions, he has shown to be a pretty good one (as an option qb). I don't think applying his numbers in a offense that lacks identity and direction is relevant to how successful he would have been in a TO offense.

I'll give you that what Tommy does best is run option, and he looks better than TM at it. If he were running it in the mid 90s, no doubt he'd be better.

 

But a couple of things for certain, if he made some of the reads he did last year, mixed in with his turnover problems, he likely never would have seen the field behind center in those offenses.

[knapplc]

Soooo.....the coaches are supposed to stop recruiting top receivers?

I have no idea how this conclusion comes from anything zoogies and/or I wrote. For my part, of course we should continue to recruit top WRs. But we MUST recruit QBs that can effectively deliver them the ball, then utilize those WRs enough to justify them returning here. What I'm saying is, we know we have a hell of a stable of RBs. Do we need a QB that can run (as zoogies points out, the philosophy is make them cover 11/11), or do we need an O Line that can block like hell, and a QB who can deliver strikes downfield? I'm thinking that with guys like we have at WR, a QB's running ability is not a priority, especially when you have a potential Heisman candidate at RB right now.

 

We were 95th in the country in Passing Offense last year, 88th the year before that, 104th the year before that, 113th the year before that. We have the WRs to improve on that dramatically. Do we have the arm in that group of QBs? If so, is it Armstrong? That's all I'm asking.

 

If it is Tommy Armstrong, and he can run the ground game effectively, too, then great! we've hit the jackpot. If Tommy is just OK in the passing game, say around 50% completion and 3:1 TD/INT ratio, we're wasting the talent we have at the wideout positions.

 

We have weapons at every position in this offense. There is no reason why we can't utilize them all. If Armstrong can improve on reading defense and in turn cut down on turn overs, that would really really make this offense cause DCs to not sleep well.

The only reason we wouldn't be able to utilize them all is if our QB can't pass well enough to keep a healthy passing game. If we can't, those WRs are wasted. That's all I'm saying. And that's not a denunciation of Tommy, it's a commentary on the kind of QB we're recruiting and playing under this regime. I'd take a healthy Taylor Martinez back for another four years in a heartbeat, but the reality is that, even with his better-than-Nebraska-normal passing percentage, we still put up those numbers listed above throughout his career. And we had some pretty good WRs in that era.