Scarlet Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: Yes, thank you. This you? "we've already sent them the neighborhood of $200 billion." Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Scarlet said: His quote was "already sent them in the neighborhood of $200 billion". Now we're adding proposed future expenditures to get try to get close to the $200 billion number he just tossed out there? I also linked a more recent analysis showing we've sent $75 billion to Ukraine. The $114 billion is clearly noted in his link as being for other neighboring countries affected by the war. I already apologized for the $200 figure. I provided YOU with analysis that states we have given (earmarked) approximately $115 billion. Add $60 from this bill, and you get $175 billion. Regardless, I will continue to be against it. And, why in the world, do they have to include this in a bill for USA border security? If they want to send $60 billion more to Ukraine, then offer that separately. They didn't, because they know that the only why it has an iceberg's chance in hell is to intertwine it with the border. Is CNN okay for you? So far, Congress has approved about $113 billion in aid to Ukraine, according to calculations by the US State Department Office of Inspector General and the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. That includes more than $62 billion intended to go through the Pentagon and more than $46 billion intended to go through the Department of State and the US Agency for International Development. https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/21/politics/war-funding-ukraine-what-matters/index.html 1 1 Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 This is hilarious…..and sad. The number one reason powering MAGA, illegal immigration (aka “the wall”-for the mentally challenged), and NOW they don’t want to do anything, something that will help curb the flow. No the bill isn’t perfect but please name any bipartisan bill that is/was perfect. Absolute joke of a party and supporters. Just change it to MASA, Make America Suffer Always, and get it over with. 2 1 1 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 50 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said: This bill is it. There won't be another bipartisan agreement. 60 votes on something else isn't happening. You either actually think the border needs to be addressed or you just want to use the border to elect Donalt Trump. If this bill “is it” and doesn’t get passed then that’s actually a good thing. The border needs addressed but not like this. Your either or suggestion is utterly ridiculous as is the non-serious bill being proposed. 2 Link to comment
Scarlet Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: I already apologized for the $200 figure. I provided YOU with analysis that states we have given (earmarked) approximately $115 billion. Add $60 from this bill, and you get $175 billion. Regardless, I will continue to be against it. And, why in the world, do they have to include this in a bill for USA border security? If they want to send $60 billion more to Ukraine, then offer that separately. They didn't, because they know that the only why it has an iceberg's chance in hell is to intertwine it with the border. Is CNN okay for you? So far, Congress has approved about $113 billion in aid to Ukraine, according to calculations by the US State Department Office of Inspector General and the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. That includes more than $62 billion intended to go through the Pentagon and more than $46 billion intended to go through the Department of State and the US Agency for International Development. https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/21/politics/war-funding-ukraine-what-matters/index.html You originally claimed that we gave $200 billion. Then you came back with some snarky comment about $175 billion being close to your claim of "already giving $200 billion". You added proposed future expenditures to make it seem like your disinformation was even in the neighborhood. If you're going to just toss numbers out why not add the $60 billion to your "already given $200 billion claim" and just say we've given $260 billion? 1 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 34 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said: I do admit, it's pretty funny to see the Republican Party on the cusp of one of their biggest policy victories in 20 years, winning the battle against Democrats who've opposed these kinds of immigration restrictions since the 1990s, only to deem them not restrictive enough because the Orange Cult Leader wants to win an election to avoid going to prison. They're going to torpedo one of the few policy goals they have all in the name of one of Felon-to-be-Trump. A form of self immolation that is hilarious. The border issue will never be addressed beyond this point. Republicans will never get 60 votes next year to pass even more restrictive policy. But hey, why fix problems when you can win elections? Alternate explanation: the un-serious bill codifies more than 3 times the amount of illegal entries as what was considered untenable just 10-15 years ago. Incentivizes more illegal entries which will make the problem worse in the long run and sunsets what little enforcement measures there are. 2 Link to comment
teachercd Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 59 minutes ago, funhusker said: Let Disney build a Disney World in Moscow and call it good... Just think how much Moscow Disney would charge for Vodka!!! 1 1 Link to comment
Dr. Strangelove Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 12 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: My advice to you is to realize this bill is most likely worse than if we would just enforce existing law. My other advice is to understand that “just pass something” isn’t a good strategy to actually fixing a problem. It doesn't. 10 Republican Senators agree. It's well known that any Executive Orders get killed in court and that 'enforcing existing law' is what's happening now. Any Fox News segment on what Biden could be doing to "enforce existing law" gets tied up in courts, is outright illegal, or based on conservative interpretations of the law which are nonsense. 16 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: Im Glad you were able to admit to complaining about a source w/o even reading what is posted. It is disconcerting though for you to complain about a source when the source is taking direct text and posting it for all to read and make their own judgements. You should probably quit doing that. The source you posted selectively posted excerpts of text of the law and violently misconstrued and made assumptions of what it meant. It's obvious anger farm bait. I get it, you don't actually want to address anything at the border because you know that no other bill has a chance of passing. It's okay to want to protect the Cheeto Man, he wouldn't last long in prison. Not sure what the end game is for you guys but I guess the Republican Party using and abusing their supporters is sort of what they come to expect? 3 Link to comment
Dr. Strangelove Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: If this bill “is it” and doesn’t get passed then that’s actually a good thing. The border needs addressed but not like this. Your either or suggestion is utterly ridiculous as is the non-serious bill being proposed. There is no other bill. This is your only bet. There isn't anything unserious about this bill, unless you've succumbed to lazy right wing talking points to help Trump get re-elected. As somebody who is much more conservative than most Democrats on immigration, I find it humorous that right wingers don't' want this pass. You are aware that the alternative is the status quo, correct? You truly believe that this bill makes the problem worse? If so, it further proves there is no hope for the MAGA crowd. You give them what they want and they retreat further into their shells. There is no amount of policy that will make them happy; being angry at anything is their base political motive. 2 2 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said: 21 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: It doesn't. 10 Republican Senators agree. It's well known that any Executive Orders get killed in court and that 'enforcing existing law' is what's happening now. Any Fox News segment on what Biden could be doing to "enforce existing law" gets tied up in courts, is outright illegal, or based on conservative interpretations of the law which are nonsense. We are not enforcing existing law which is why the issue has gotten so much worse. 10 Republican Senators are being idiots who don’t want to solve the issue. They just want to appease. Which is fine for them to have that opinion, but just come and out and say it so people know 1 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 11 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said: There is no other bill. This is your only bet. What is the status of this? https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2/summary/00 2 1 Link to comment
SECHusker Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, DevoHusker said: What is the status of this? https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2/summary/00 Last I heard it got no bipartisan support in the House. So it wasn't really a bill, but a Republican wish list. 1 1 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 23 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said: 45 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: The source you posted selectively posted excerpts of text of the law and violently misconstrued and made assumptions of what it meant. It's obvious anger farm bait Violently Im glad that source posted excerpts of the bill text. It’s actually more than you have done so far Currently you are posting the “take my word for it bro” mode. Link to comment
Dr. Strangelove Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: What is the status of this? https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2/summary/00 Not possible to pass in the Senate. That bill falls short of many things, including expanding legal immigration which it does not address and what many sectors of the American economy rely on. Next time you see a crew roofing houses, paving roads, or visit your local slaughter house and let me know what you see. Hint: there are not a lot of legal workers clamoring for those jobs (A meat packing plant in Grand Island Nebraska was hit with fines after it was discovered that they employed child labor of illegal immigrants). H.R.2 mandates the use of E-Verify which would gut those industries but does not expand legal immigration to make up for the shortfall. Thus, the bill will never pass and was not designed to pass. The current agreement compromises on slightly less restrictive immigration policies but expands legal immigration visa's to makeup for the shortfall. It also expands the number of Asylum judges and officers to properly adjudicate asylum petitions. 10 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: We are not enforcing existing law which is why the issue has gotten so much worse. 10 Republican Senators are being idiots who don’t want to solve the issue. They just want to appease. Which is fine for them to have that opinion, but just come and out and say it so people know They're enforcing existing law to the best extent that courts allow. Furthering the enforcement of law requires executive orders, which are challenged in court. It's been the base immigration policy for decades and why immigration policy seemingly changes by administration as their immigration agenda goes through the courts and eventually dies. The current bill codifies certain administrative powers into law to avoid this. I'm much further to the right on immigration than other democrats, this bill is mediocre. But it's also the only one that has a chance of passing. This is it, there are no alternatives. You either want to address the issue with what can actually pass in Congress or you can continue with the status quo of immigration policy which is Presidency-to-Presidency via executive orders, where the policy goes through courts and changes based on what judge see's the case. 1 1 1 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 30 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said: I get it, you don't actually want to address anything at the border because you know that no other bill has a chance of passing. It's okay to want to protect the Cheeto Man, he wouldn't last long in prison. Not sure what the end game is for you guys but I guess the Republican Party using and abusing their supporters is sort of what they come to expect? Classic gaslighting. “Take this bill that solves almost nothing or else that means you don’t want to address the border”. 2 Link to comment
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