Are Armstrong's completions enough?

[Guy Chamberlin]

Also, Joe Dailey wasn't a gamer.

 

He wasn't misused by the coaches.

 

He just wasn't a gamer.

[Landlord]

No, most of the time Martinez gets brought up because someone says Tommy is so much better at Martinez than blank without providing any kind of real statistic and when a real statistic is brought up starts to show their statement isn't true they start complaining about bringing up Martinez

 

Is this like the adult version of "They started it!! "?

As far as bringing up real statistics, you said:

 

 

And nothing Armstrong has shown these past two years, has shown these actually reducing the number of turnovers.

 

To which I replied, with real statistics, proving you factually wrong in showing that Tommy has in fact reduced the number of turnovers from the first 5 games of last season, as well as HIS first five starts of last season. Only in your warped little Taylor boner brain can you see that Tommy has had less interceptions and the team has had less turnovers overall in his first five games this year compared to his first five last year where he split time with RKIII and not come to the conclusion that he has shown he is actually reducing the number of turnovers.

 

We had 8 turnovers (7 fumbles, 1 interception) through the first five games last season.

 

We had 10 turnovers (6 interceptions, 4 fumbles) through Tommy Armstrong's first five starts last season.

 

We have 5 turnovers (3 interceptions, 2 fumbles) through the first five games this season.

 

 

I'd love to, but other people keep bringing him up. I like the guy, I'm going to defend him. Why do other people keep bringing them up? Maybe they should stop caring so f'ing much. I think it's funny how you quote me saying there's a divide we should probably stop trying to compare them while trying to tell me to stop comparing them.

I like Taylor too, but you're misguided. You think that directly comparing him to Tommy is defending him when actually it's really just a critique of Armstrong. You can defend Taylor on his own without bringing Tommy into the discussion.

 

But again, you saying other people should stop caring so f'ing much when you're the one keeping the conversation alive on this topic seems very pot-and-kettle to me.

[sd'sker]

the offensive line also benefits from a qb who does not scramble before he needs to. that can lead to a lot of unnecessary sacks.

[Guy Chamberlin]

the offensive line also benefits from a qb who does not scramble before he needs to. that can lead to a lot of unnecessary sacks.

 

And holding penalties.

 

 

For me, a big part of Tommy passing the eye test is pocket presence. There isn't really a stat for that. Tommy appears to take a deeper drop and buy himself more time. Good peripheral vision. Little to no panic. Some OL credit for that, of course.

[Count 'Bility]

Tommy is less eratic in the pocket as well. Not nearly as much "happy feet". Lots of folks dont realize how much effect this has on an oline trying to pass block. Protection at that level is so much about angles and pocket formation and timing, that a qb who moves around with no consistent pattern and no ryhthm and no feel actually puts a lot of stress on an oline trying to protect. Just what I've been told by an oline coach about Taylor's overall pocket presence, that he may very well be one of the most difficult qb's to pass block for out there. And that just goes back to the fact that he just wasnt a natural qb that developed at that position from a young age.

[admo]

the offensive line also benefits from a qb who does not scramble before he needs to. that can lead to a lot of unnecessary sacks.

As do the receivers running their routes.

 

Prior to the season I thought the biggest question marks or concerns were offensive line, quarterback and linebackers. Through 5 games the first two have been pleasant surprises. It's almost as if they work well together.

[QMany]

I am liking the improvement I'm seeing with Tommy, he is learning from his mistakes quickly. In the Illinois game, he had that terrible play where he extended the play and then throw late across the middle of the field for the INT. He was trying to make too much happen. A few series later, he extends the play stepping up in the pocket perfectly and takes what the offense is giving him, a 5-6 yard out to a WR on the sideline. It wasn't a big-hitter that you'll see on Sportscenter, but he didn't compound mistakes. Instead, he made 3rd down manageable. That is what I was waiting to see from Tommy, and I was impressed. If he keeps learning from his mistakes and improving on certain aspects of his game (check downs, touch passes, intermediate routes), he has the tools to be very, very good.

[Branno]

To which I replied, with real statistics, proving you factually wrong in showing that Tommy has in fact reduced the number of turnovers from the first 5 games of last season, as well as HIS first five starts of last season. Only in your warped little Taylor boner brain can you see that Tommy has had less interceptions and the team has had less turnovers overall in his first five games this year compared to his first five last year where he split time with RKIII and not come to the conclusion that he has shown he is actually reducing the number of turnovers.

And I replied with disambiguation of your statistics and you essentially told me to shut up.

 

I like Taylor too, but you're misguided. You think that directly comparing him to Tommy is defending him when actually it's really just a critique of Armstrong. You can defend Taylor on his own without bringing Tommy into the discussion.

 

But again, you saying other people should stop caring so f'ing much when you're the one keeping the conversation alive on this topic seems very pot-and-kettle to me.

 

Using this logic every post that talks about how much better Tommy is than Martinez is not supporting Tommy but critiquing Martinez.

 

But I just want to quote myself really quickly to rebut this bullsh#t about me keeping this conversation alive.

 

I think the biggest difference between these two sides, it's people see Taylor Martinez as his entire career and people refuse to take into consideration Tommy's year last year saying how he was new. They complain about one quarterbacks completion percentage while saying it doesn't matter for the other.

 

In the end, they are two very different quarterbacks. They have different styles different strengths different weaknesses exactly, and I don't think it's fair to really compare the two. Because for some Martinez is always gonna be the better quarterback, and for others Armstrong will be.

Yes I let myself get dragged back into this, but it's just that... I reply to other's comments. It's kind of the point of a message board. The last time I didn't reply to something I got called out for not replying. Are you willing to admit that you are keeping this going just as much as I am?

[True2tRA]

 

the offensive line also benefits from a qb who does not scramble before he needs to. that can lead to a lot of unnecessary sacks.

 

And holding penalties.

 

 

For me, a big part of Tommy passing the eye test is pocket presence. There isn't really a stat for that. Tommy appears to take a deeper drop and buy himself more time. Good peripheral vision. Little to no panic. Some OL credit for that, of course.

Tommy is less eratic in the pocket as well. Not nearly as much "happy feet". Lots of folks dont realize how much effect this has on an oline trying to pass block. Protection at that level is so much about angles and pocket formation and timing, that a qb who moves around with no consistent pattern and no ryhthm and no feel actually puts a lot of stress on an oline trying to protect. Just what I've been told by an oline coach about Taylor's overall pocket presence, that he may very well be one of the most difficult qb's to pass block for out there. And that just goes back to the fact that he just wasnt a natural qb that developed at that position from a young age.

 

I am liking the improvement I'm seeing with Tommy, he is learning from his mistakes quickly. In the Illinois game, he had that terrible play where he extended the play and then throw late across the middle of the field for the INT. He was trying to make too much happen. A few series later, he extends the play stepping up in the pocket perfectly and takes what the offense is giving him, a 5-6 yard out to a WR on the sideline. It wasn't a big-hitter that you'll see on Sportscenter, but he didn't compound mistakes. Instead, he made 3rd down manageable. That is what I was waiting to see from Tommy, and I was impressed. If he keeps learning from his mistakes and improving on certain aspects of his game (check downs, touch passes, intermediate routes), he has the tools to be very, very good.

 

You guys....I'm chubbin'.

 

TA is the real deal.

[The Dude]

Tommy appears to take a deeper drop and buy himself more time . . .

I think part of the reason he's inconsistent on some of the shorter passes is he sometimes drops back a little too far and throws the timing off a bit. I think it'll come together with more experience and practice reps.

[zoogs]

I am liking the improvement I'm seeing with Tommy, he is learning from his mistakes quickly. In the Illinois game, he had that terrible play where he extended the play and then throw late across the middle of the field for the INT. He was trying to make too much happen. A few series later, he extends the play stepping up in the pocket perfectly and takes what the offense is giving him, a 5-6 yard out to a WR on the sideline. It wasn't a big-hitter that you'll see on Sportscenter, but he didn't compound mistakes. Instead, he made 3rd down manageable. That is what I was waiting to see from Tommy, and I was impressed. If he keeps learning from his mistakes and improving on certain aspects of his game (check downs, touch passes, intermediate routes), he has the tools to be very, very good.

Great post here, I noticed that too. The first play where he threw the pick on the run deserved a chewing out. But after that, Tommy demonstrated some terrific pocket awareness as well as decision-making as he moved out of it.

 

He's not perfect, but he's got the fundamentals and mindset and he's getting more experienced every game.

[RedRedJarvisRedwine]

I am liking the improvement I'm seeing with Tommy, he is learning from his mistakes quickly. In the Illinois game, he had that terrible play where he extended the play and then throw late across the middle of the field for the INT. He was trying to make too much happen. A few series later, he extends the play stepping up in the pocket perfectly and takes what the offense is giving him, a 5-6 yard out to a WR on the sideline. It wasn't a big-hitter that you'll see on Sportscenter, but he didn't compound mistakes. Instead, he made 3rd down manageable. That is what I was waiting to see from Tommy, and I was impressed. If he keeps learning from his mistakes and improving on certain aspects of his game (check downs, touch passes, intermediate routes), he has the tools to be very, very good.

I agree. Just don't want him to get gunshy and avoid the downfield throws. Its what he does best right now. And its a huge weapon.