Paris attacks

[Moiraine]

 

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

- Stevie Wonder

It could be argued that if people think there is nothing wrong with bringing refugees over here without figuring out who they are first could fall into the same category. Blindly trusting this situation could result in more attacks here. How would those of you feel, that support bringing the refugees here, if an attack did occur, and it was found out they were part of the refugees that came over here? I don't support the idea and I see it from my perspective as I'm the one seeing the problem along with those who don't support this move. The ones that are blind are the ones who support it in my opinion. My bleeding heart ran out a long time ago considering all the issues we're facing as a country. No, I'm not going to break those down, but some of the moves we've made as a country are pretty concerning.

 

 

He was talking about the Putin conversation.

[BigRedBuster]

Is anyone actually saying we should just let refugees in without figuring out who they are? I really doubt that was ever the plan.

I'm more than willing to read and study what they have in place. I honestly don't know. I'm sure there is some type of registration or what ever. I could see some situations where that is pretty lenient. This situation needs to be as absolutely thorough as can be.

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Western news sources criticizing Putin? Color me shocked!

 

I don't think that Obama should be like Putin, but he should likely stay out of the way of the people who have a better idea of who the real bad guys are.

So they're making up the freedom of the press problems in Russia? I know several Russians who have moved here and have told me how it is there. Also, the 2nd link I showed has the U.S. ranked 23rd.

There are definitely differences in the way that Putin handles his country than what is deemed acceptable in the West and there are definitely corruption problems.

 

My point was that Putin's support is something that Western politicians can only dream of and that what Eastern and Western cultures consider to be the traits of a strong leader are different.

My point was he does not have the kind of support you're saying he does. It's all a fantasy. When you destroy dissenting opinions it's funny how everyone suddenly seems to like you.

 

Reports of his approval are likely made up as well.

Putting a muzzle on a number of media outlets doesn't translate to him not having very high support or approval. I read somewhere on this board (maybe 500 times?) that correlation doesn't mean...hmmm...let me think about it for a while.

 

Why are the reports likely made up? Just because the regimes clamps down on media that is deemed to be destructive to operations and values of the country?

 

This is derailing the thread, though. Anyone is free to get things back on track.

The more dissenting opinions you shut up or murder, the higher your approval rating will be. This shouldn't be as hard to see as you're making it. It's pretty clear from your recent statements that you are anti democracy. They weren't shut down because they were destructive to Russian values and operations. They were shut down because they were anti Putin. How would you like it if anyone who talked bad about Obama was put out of business or assassinated?

 

I guarantee you his approval rating would skyrocket though.

 

You're incorrect, to a degree regarding the reasons for the media to be shut down.

 

As I said earlier, it comes down to a misunderstanding of most of the West of the values and the general culture of many Eastern peoples. It is interesting, in light of this topic (the Paris attacks, remember?) how people are quick to shame those who would speak out about the cultural differences of the the areas/nations where the perpetrators of the crimes are from, yet it is perfectly acceptable to disparage the cultural differences of the "bad people" in "bad Russia".

 

Regarding my being "anti democracy", this is true to some extent. There are some cultures that are unwilling to take on the responsibility that such a system requires and are unwilling to accept secularism. I don't think that democracy (or the more common republic) is compatible or the most effective form of government in these circumstances.

 

Aristotle probably wasn't totally wrong...right?

 

 

No one in this thread is talking about cultural differences in Russia. They are not okay with their news being filtered/biased and reporters being assassinated and shut up, as much as you want to claim they are. I live with a Russian, know lots of others and have a Russian professor. All anecdotal evidence of course, but I really don't see a big cultural difference here where Russians want to be ignorant. The ones actually living inside of it don't know what's going on because internet is being censored as well.

[Creighton Duke]

 

^^^

That quote sums this thread up PERFECTLY, actually. Thanks for posting!

You are being incredibly obtuse about this. The article in the Migrant topic would be against the law if this were Russia.

 

 

You called me ignorant in that thread for talking about the article being biased. Imagine how ignorant we would all be if our news was filtered to only say good things about the president. No more badmouthing Obama.

 

To clarify, I didn't mean that you were being ignorant specifically in regards to your comment's on the source's probable biases. It was more a general statement about how many have decided to view the invasion crisis that continues to take place. I agree with your comments above (except for the "against the law" portion).

[Landlord]

I am perfectly fine with refugees coming to America. That is what this country was built on and what makes us great.

 

However, somehow, there needs to be some type of due diligence to figure out if these people are Muslim extremists wanting to do harm here. I actually was thinking about this last night. A situation like what we had with Ellis Island would work. Bring them here, take care of them, feed them, shelter them, give them medical treatment..etc. But, keep them separate until some type of further investigation can be done. When people are (reasonably) found to be true refugees and safe, allow them in.

 

 

 

 

We've had tons and tons and tons and tons of refugees come to America since 9/11

 

 

None have been arrested for terrorism

[Creighton Duke]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Western news sources criticizing Putin? Color me shocked!

 

I don't think that Obama should be like Putin, but he should likely stay out of the way of the people who have a better idea of who the real bad guys are.

So they're making up the freedom of the press problems in Russia? I know several Russians who have moved here and have told me how it is there. Also, the 2nd link I showed has the U.S. ranked 23rd.

There are definitely differences in the way that Putin handles his country than what is deemed acceptable in the West and there are definitely corruption problems.

 

My point was that Putin's support is something that Western politicians can only dream of and that what Eastern and Western cultures consider to be the traits of a strong leader are different.

My point was he does not have the kind of support you're saying he does. It's all a fantasy. When you destroy dissenting opinions it's funny how everyone suddenly seems to like you.

 

Reports of his approval are likely made up as well.

Putting a muzzle on a number of media outlets doesn't translate to him not having very high support or approval. I read somewhere on this board (maybe 500 times?) that correlation doesn't mean...hmmm...let me think about it for a while.

 

Why are the reports likely made up? Just because the regimes clamps down on media that is deemed to be destructive to operations and values of the country?

 

This is derailing the thread, though. Anyone is free to get things back on track.

The more dissenting opinions you shut up or murder, the higher your approval rating will be. This shouldn't be as hard to see as you're making it. It's pretty clear from your recent statements that you are anti democracy. They weren't shut down because they were destructive to Russian values and operations. They were shut down because they were anti Putin. How would you like it if anyone who talked bad about Obama was put out of business or assassinated?

 

I guarantee you his approval rating would skyrocket though.

 

You're incorrect, to a degree regarding the reasons for the media to be shut down.

 

As I said earlier, it comes down to a misunderstanding of most of the West of the values and the general culture of many Eastern peoples. It is interesting, in light of this topic (the Paris attacks, remember?) how people are quick to shame those who would speak out about the cultural differences of the the areas/nations where the perpetrators of the crimes are from, yet it is perfectly acceptable to disparage the cultural differences of the "bad people" in "bad Russia".

 

Regarding my being "anti democracy", this is true to some extent. There are some cultures that are unwilling to take on the responsibility that such a system requires and are unwilling to accept secularism. I don't think that democracy (or the more common republic) is compatible or the most effective form of government in these circumstances.

 

Aristotle probably wasn't totally wrong...right?

 

 

No one in this thread is talking about cultural differences in Russia. They are not okay with their news being filtered/biased and reporters being assassinated and shut up, as much as you want to claim they are. I live with a Russian, know lots of others and have a Russian professor. All anecdotal evidence of course, but I really don't see a big cultural difference here where Russians want to be ignorant.

 

Many of the comments are definitely, whether directly or not, referencing (and denouncing) cultural differences.

 

I'm glad that you've met some Russian people.

 

Again, I think that it is more appropriate to get back to the thread topic.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Is anyone actually saying we should just let refugees in without figuring out who they are? I really doubt that was ever the plan.

 

http://www.allenbwest.com/2015/11/fbi-says-no-way-to-check-refugees-coming-to-us-while-obama-issues-this-statement/

 

FBI has said there is no way to do the checks in the manner they need to be done to ensure we aren't letting someone come here that shouldn't come here.

 

 

 

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

- Stevie Wonder

It could be argued that if people think there is nothing wrong with bringing refugees over here without figuring out who they are first could fall into the same category. Blindly trusting this situation could result in more attacks here. How would those of you feel, that support bringing the refugees here, if an attack did occur, and it was found out they were part of the refugees that came over here? I don't support the idea and I see it from my perspective as I'm the one seeing the problem along with those who don't support this move. The ones that are blind are the ones who support it in my opinion. My bleeding heart ran out a long time ago considering all the issues we're facing as a country. No, I'm not going to break those down, but some of the moves we've made as a country are pretty concerning.

 

 

He was talking about the Putin conversation.

 

Well looking at some of the comments about just allowing the refugees to come here and be compassionate makes that quote fit that rhetoric as well.

[QMany]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

- Stevie Wonder

Lets not get into whether or not Stevie Wonder is in-fact blind.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

I am perfectly fine with refugees coming to America. That is what this country was built on and what makes us great.

 

However, somehow, there needs to be some type of due diligence to figure out if these people are Muslim extremists wanting to do harm here. I actually was thinking about this last night. A situation like what we had with Ellis Island would work. Bring them here, take care of them, feed them, shelter them, give them medical treatment..etc. But, keep them separate until some type of further investigation can be done. When people are (reasonably) found to be true refugees and safe, allow them in.

 

 

 

 

We've had tons and tons and tons and tons of refugees come to America since 9/11

 

 

None have been arrested for terrorism

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qaeda-kentucky-us-dozens-terrorists-country-refugees/story?id=20931131

 

Just because they haven't been arrested here doesn't mean they haven't killed our soldiers and it doesn't mean they can't become dangerous down the road.

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Western news sources criticizing Putin? Color me shocked!

 

I don't think that Obama should be like Putin, but he should likely stay out of the way of the people who have a better idea of who the real bad guys are.

So they're making up the freedom of the press problems in Russia? I know several Russians who have moved here and have told me how it is there. Also, the 2nd link I showed has the U.S. ranked 23rd.

There are definitely differences in the way that Putin handles his country than what is deemed acceptable in the West and there are definitely corruption problems.

 

My point was that Putin's support is something that Western politicians can only dream of and that what Eastern and Western cultures consider to be the traits of a strong leader are different.

My point was he does not have the kind of support you're saying he does. It's all a fantasy. When you destroy dissenting opinions it's funny how everyone suddenly seems to like you.

 

Reports of his approval are likely made up as well.

Putting a muzzle on a number of media outlets doesn't translate to him not having very high support or approval. I read somewhere on this board (maybe 500 times?) that correlation doesn't mean...hmmm...let me think about it for a while.

 

Why are the reports likely made up? Just because the regimes clamps down on media that is deemed to be destructive to operations and values of the country?

 

This is derailing the thread, though. Anyone is free to get things back on track.

The more dissenting opinions you shut up or murder, the higher your approval rating will be. This shouldn't be as hard to see as you're making it. It's pretty clear from your recent statements that you are anti democracy. They weren't shut down because they were destructive to Russian values and operations. They were shut down because they were anti Putin. How would you like it if anyone who talked bad about Obama was put out of business or assassinated?

 

I guarantee you his approval rating would skyrocket though.

 

You're incorrect, to a degree regarding the reasons for the media to be shut down.

 

As I said earlier, it comes down to a misunderstanding of most of the West of the values and the general culture of many Eastern peoples. It is interesting, in light of this topic (the Paris attacks, remember?) how people are quick to shame those who would speak out about the cultural differences of the the areas/nations where the perpetrators of the crimes are from, yet it is perfectly acceptable to disparage the cultural differences of the "bad people" in "bad Russia".

 

Regarding my being "anti democracy", this is true to some extent. There are some cultures that are unwilling to take on the responsibility that such a system requires and are unwilling to accept secularism. I don't think that democracy (or the more common republic) is compatible or the most effective form of government in these circumstances.

 

Aristotle probably wasn't totally wrong...right?

 

 

No one in this thread is talking about cultural differences in Russia. They are not okay with their news being filtered/biased and reporters being assassinated and shut up, as much as you want to claim they are. I live with a Russian, know lots of others and have a Russian professor. All anecdotal evidence of course, but I really don't see a big cultural difference here where Russians want to be ignorant.

 

Many of the comments are definitely, whether directly or not, referencing (and denouncing) cultural differences.

 

I'm glad that you've met some Russian people.

 

Again, I think that it is more appropriate to get back to the thread topic.

 

 

The cultural difference you're implying is they like their media controlled by the government so they can remain ignorant of opposing viewpoints. There is literally no other potential cultural difference that we've discussed. You're just making sh#t up now.

[Creighton Duke]

Is anyone actually saying we should just let refugees in without figuring out who they are? I really doubt that was ever the plan.

It's happening all over Europe.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

 

Those not in favor of this approach are fascists.

[Moiraine]

 

Is anyone actually saying we should just let refugees in without figuring out who they are? I really doubt that was ever the plan.

It's happening all over Europe.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

 

Those not in favor of this approach are fascists.

 

 

The key word was we, as in the U.S. And I meant anyone here.

[zoogs]

Obviously there should be a reasonable safeguard to determine that refugees are actually refugees. What's absolutely not in doubt is the scale of suffering happening there right now. It's a humanitarian crisis. There are a great many victims who have committed no sin other than not having the fortune of being born in America, something we happen to enjoy.

 

These people need help. Figure out a way to get it to them. Everybody has to step up to the plate. It's going to be us someday. Today is our day to be the helpers.

[NebraskaShellback]

if you want to see some religious persecution try being a christian in an area controlled by isis. or any religion other than their brand of islam.

Ditto comment..............................................

[Creighton Duke]

Obviously there should be a reasonable safeguard to determine that refugees are actually refugees. What's absolutely not in doubt is the scale of suffering happening there right now. It's a humanitarian crisis. There are a great many victims who have committed no sin other than not having the fortune of being born in America, something we happen to enjoy.

 

These people need help. Figure out a way to get it to them. Everybody has to step up to the plate. It's going to be us someday. Today is our day to be the helpers.

Zoogs, I respect your opinions and your tactful take on many issues. But watch the video above and tell me if these people are so helpless. Do you really want such incidents to be taking place in our country?

 

My heart goes out to the real victims who, like you say, become victims through no fault of their own, but in light of the kinds of activities that have taken place throughout the crisis, I side with caution to protect the best interests of my friends and loved ones.