Police Dispatch During Shootings in Dallas and other police topics

[Landlord]

I would like to see links to any time Obama has insinuated that specific cops in specific situations were guilty. All I can recall him addressing is the systemic problem that exists across our nation, that people may or may not correctly attribute to individual situations.

 

Ferguson is a great example. The Attorney General found that Darren Wilson was innocent and within the law in shooting Michael Brown, but it was also found out that there was a horrifying culture of systemic racial bias in the Ferguson police department. So while the protestors were wrong in propping up Michael Brown's death as a specific example of police brutality, they weren't wrong in their condemnation of what it represented to them, which was very real.

[Danny Bateman]

Enhance, allow me to attempt to draw a parallel between the discussion LOMS/Moiraine are having with AF/BRI and gun control.

 

Let me say this first as a disclaimer: I have tremendous respect for those who wear the uniform. Any uniform, really. Public service is noble and deserves our respect. Those who enter such professions don't typically pay well and face danger nearly every damn day. I really appreciate that they put themselves at risk to serve the public.

 

Those in the uniform deserve both our respect and the same protections as any other citizen. They too are innocent until proven guilty. So obviously we all jump to our own hasty conclusions when we see video like we saw in Louisiana, Minnesota, or Dallas, but we've got to wait until all the facts come out later to be able to really make an informed judgment about what happened. That's the way law works, for good reason.

BUT, even though everyone deserves the same right to due process, I don't believe any profession deserves blanket protection beyond that. Everyone has to deal with criticism and the court of public opinion. Just because someone works a profession as noble as public service doesn't mean they should be immune from criticism if the situation calls for it.

 

From what I've seen, many in law enforcement want to dismiss claims of systemic bias and other criticisms as disingenuous or unfounded strikes me as a roadblock to meaningful change. In the very same way that hardline, radical protestors preferring to blanket all cops as killers and racists rather than hearing them out or waiting for the facts to come out is a roadblock. In the very same way that those afraid of losing their NRA gravy train watch shooting after shooting happen in this country and then sit on their hands like they can't do a damn thing instead of passing meaningful gun reform.

 

Acknowledging there is an actual problem that requires discussion is the first step in starting any meaningful conversation that can lead to any substantial change.

 

Those who flatly reject dissenting opinions about differing realities of the situation as unfounded, ridiculous, insulting, or intellectually disingenuous prevent the change we need.

 

Saying "Your opinion is different than mine; it's invalid" is not productive.

[AFhusker]

 

 

Innocent until proven guilty is a fundamental albeit amorphous concept.

 

However, it is the basis on which we approach the law and those who break it. In the case of these most recent two examples, we can (and should) approach the situation from a position of fairness. The situation should be investigated, is being investigated and will be investigated further. This is how the country already approaches every single officer involved shooting.

 

Furthermore, while I think is a discussion worth pursuing, perhaps it should be done elsewhere. I personally don't believe it is directly relative to the gun control debate, unless the discussion shifts from this current trend into one about how guns/gun laws may have prevented/enabled the most recent killings.

The issue here is when we have leaders such as the President making statements insinuate that the police are guilty until proven innocent before the facts are found out. This isn't an issue where you need to pick a side, you can be against bad cops and cop killers such as the one in Dallas. Then on the other side, you can't have equally as ignorant republican elected officials say that "this is war" towards the president. This is time where we need to come together and have a real discussion, not separate us. Bad "leadership" on both sides are why we are in such bad shape when it comes to race relations.

 

I agree with much of what you're saying.

 

However, it doesn't change how our legal system works. It also doesn't change how a lot of people, on both sides of the aisle, are poorly reacting to this situation without having all the facts. I think a lot of people would be much better served if they just didn't speak, or spoke less. We can all have opinions and want to see the facts come to light without belittling one another or, in some cases, inciting violence on one another.

 

It also doesn't change how this particular tangent is not really germane to gun control at the moment.

 

I agree with everything you said here.

[JJ Husker]

 

 

 

 

The fact that you're ready to jump all over this officer is equally as shocking.

 

 

 

Yeah....don't think you can find anywhere that I did that.

 

If he didn't, it'll come out and the cop will be prosecuted for it.

 

 

The thing is, no he won't. There's no way the cop gets burned for this even if he's guilty. A dashcam isn't going to show the man's hands inside the car in front of his seat. Nothing is going to shed more insight other than he said/she said, and the cops get the benefit of the doubt every time.

 

 

 

I understand you being a cop and you seem like a good one and I respect that. But your immediate rush to defense in every single one of these situations is scary. Can you explain to me why unarmed black folk are 5x as likely to be shot and killed by police than unarmed white folk, while only making up 13% of the population?

How in the hell else am I supposed to take that? Nevermind you've shown a history yourself of jumping on several of these situations and saying the cop is guilty before all the facts even come out. Ferguson should've been a huge wake up call to a lot of folks to keep your opinions to yourselves until all the facts come out. Obviously our dumba$$ president, who I voted for unfortunately.......twice, didn't learn to shut up about these situations and continues to add fuel to the fire resulting in more violence and more deaths. The thing that I try to bring to the table is perspective, you don't have my perspective and training and probably never will. So I try to explain why some things are done a certain way and usually get trashed for it which is complete nonsense.

 

To think I think all cops that are involved in shootings are not guilty of something is completely not true despite what you and others think. I'll wait until all the facts come out before I make my decision however and a large number of folks should do the same. All I'm asking is that folks wait to pass judgement until that all comes out. Until that day comes I'll continue to defend my profession as I'm sick of the hate that goes on a daily basis towards those in law enforcement. Perfection isn't obtainable, but 99.9% of the police in the United States are outstanding professionals doing a difficult job under intensifying scrutiny on a daily basis by those so called "experts" out there who've never done the job, never will do the job, and don't have the guts to do the job yet they think they somehow know how to do it better than all of us. Pick up an application and save the world and show all of us how it's done. We'll show you your seat in the front row to the realities of society and what's actually real and what's actually a fairy tale despite what you're getting fed by the media. Buckle up, cause it's bumpy as hell, grab a vomit bag.

That bolded part is why the race relations have been set back to the 60's and that is the Presidents fault. His irresponsible comments before the facts are known have destroyed the progress that got him elected. He should have been the one who brought people together, instead we have this.

5 Statistics You Need To Know About Cops Killing Blacks http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

The fact you posted that link shows you don't understand numbers any better than the author. Or maybe they understand, but also know that they're going to dupe a large number of people reading. Someone on my FB friends posted the exact same statistic as in #1 and #2. Let's take the first two of their five facts. They're nearly identical so I'll just quote one:

"Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015."

Using a sum in this case is just plain stupid. There are 197 million Whites in the U.S. There are 38 million Blacks.

If there was no problem (whether it be something the Black community needs to work on or the police need to work on or a combination) then 5.18 times as many Whites would be killed by police. That would be proportional and be very strong evidence that there is no issue with regards to race.

I agree that using sum numbers doesn't work in many situations and a person does need to place them in context like you have done here. But, you can't stop there.....what percentage of all crimes are committed by African Americans? I don't have the numbers in front of me but we all know it is disproportionately high compared to the population sum. So that tells me that black criminals will find themselves in confrontations with police at a higher rate than whites. It may or may not be sum total more, IDK, the math result isn't my point here. When we adjust these sum numbers and percentage nembers for real world conditions, only then do they become useful to identify potential problems. But it stands to reason that people committing crimes will find themselves in confrontations with police. If a certain race is committing crimes disproportionately higher than another race, they likely are going to get shot by police at a disproportionately higher percentage. So, the fact that the sum of white people being shot by police does mean a little something. You can't adjust one side of the equation without adjusting the other side.

[AFhusker]

 

What that is saying that while there are less blacks, they disappointingly commit violent crimes. On top of the numbers above, CNN stated that while black males are 6% of the population they commit 37% of the violent crime overall. That is where there needs to be improvement and where the real solution to this issue will come from, if they don't get into those situations then they won't have to worry about bad cops. Not to mention that the cops who do kill blacks, the majority of those are Hispanic or black cops. But that doesn't fit the agenda of the media so that doesn't get covered. Then if you read the bottom of the article, it is more likely that a black civilian is more likely to kill a cop than it is the other way around. So why is it such a surprise that cops are jumpy when they are questioning black males? With that said, that doesn't give them an excuse to shoot first and ask questions later and every death by cop needs to be investigated no matter the race of everyone involved.

 

 

 

There is definitely something to be said for different people groups being more or less violent than others, for sure. To deny or ignore that is just avoiding the truth because it's uncomfortable. However, as I think you'd agree, it's not the entirety of the situation.

 

Even if the numbers on how much crime is committed are accurate, there are other numbers that are pretty damning. Such as black minors being 18x more likely to be tried as adults than white minors, for the same crimes. Another pretty awful one is the rate of convictions on minor drug offenses, despite the same amount of use across different races.

 

These situations have a ton of factors and nuance and are complicated, and as such need to be dealt with creatively and from many different directions.

 

I do agree with everything that you said. The system is corrupt as hell. The more money or influence you have, the more likely you are going to get a slap on the wrist or off on a "play on words technicality.' All we have to do is look at Hillary for the latest example of that. That is why I find it laughable that she says that she feels the pain of minorities when she just proved that she is at the top of the 1% who are above any laws.

[AFhusker]

 

 

 

 

 

The fact that you're ready to jump all over this officer is equally as shocking.

 

 

Yeah....don't think you can find anywhere that I did that.

 

If he didn't, it'll come out and the cop will be prosecuted for it.

 

The thing is, no he won't. There's no way the cop gets burned for this even if he's guilty. A dashcam isn't going to show the man's hands inside the car in front of his seat. Nothing is going to shed more insight other than he said/she said, and the cops get the benefit of the doubt every time.

 

 

 

I understand you being a cop and you seem like a good one and I respect that. But your immediate rush to defense in every single one of these situations is scary. Can you explain to me why unarmed black folk are 5x as likely to be shot and killed by police than unarmed white folk, while only making up 13% of the population?

How in the hell else am I supposed to take that? Nevermind you've shown a history yourself of jumping on several of these situations and saying the cop is guilty before all the facts even come out. Ferguson should've been a huge wake up call to a lot of folks to keep your opinions to yourselves until all the facts come out. Obviously our dumba$$ president, who I voted for unfortunately.......twice, didn't learn to shut up about these situations and continues to add fuel to the fire resulting in more violence and more deaths. The thing that I try to bring to the table is perspective, you don't have my perspective and training and probably never will. So I try to explain why some things are done a certain way and usually get trashed for it which is complete nonsense.

 

To think I think all cops that are involved in shootings are not guilty of something is completely not true despite what you and others think. I'll wait until all the facts come out before I make my decision however and a large number of folks should do the same. All I'm asking is that folks wait to pass judgement until that all comes out. Until that day comes I'll continue to defend my profession as I'm sick of the hate that goes on a daily basis towards those in law enforcement. Perfection isn't obtainable, but 99.9% of the police in the United States are outstanding professionals doing a difficult job under intensifying scrutiny on a daily basis by those so called "experts" out there who've never done the job, never will do the job, and don't have the guts to do the job yet they think they somehow know how to do it better than all of us. Pick up an application and save the world and show all of us how it's done. We'll show you your seat in the front row to the realities of society and what's actually real and what's actually a fairy tale despite what you're getting fed by the media. Buckle up, cause it's bumpy as hell, grab a vomit bag.

That bolded part is why the race relations have been set back to the 60's and that is the Presidents fault. His irresponsible comments before the facts are known have destroyed the progress that got him elected. He should have been the one who brought people together, instead we have this.

5 Statistics You Need To Know About Cops Killing Blacks http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

The fact you posted that link shows you don't understand numbers any better than the author. Or maybe they understand, but also know that they're going to dupe a large number of people reading. Someone on my FB friends posted the exact same statistic as in #1 and #2. Let's take the first two of their five facts. They're nearly identical so I'll just quote one:

"Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015."

Using a sum in this case is just plain stupid. There are 197 million Whites in the U.S. There are 38 million Blacks.

If there was no problem (whether it be something the Black community needs to work on or the police need to work on or a combination) then 5.18 times as many Whites would be killed by police. That would be proportional and be very strong evidence that there is no issue with regards to race.

I agree that using sum numbers doesn't work in many situations and a person does need to place them in context like you have done here. But, you can't stop there.....what percentage of all crimes are committed by African Americans? I don't have the numbers in front of me but we all know it is disproportionately high compared to the population sum. So that tells me that black criminals will find themselves in confrontations with police at a higher rate than whites. It may or may not be sum total more, IDK, the math result isn't my point here. When we adjust these sum numbers and percentage nembers for real world conditions, only then do they become useful to identify potential problems. But it stands to reason that people committing crimes will find themselves in confrontations with police. If a certain race is committing crimes disproportionately higher than another race, they likely are going to get shot by police at a disproportionately higher percentage. So, the fact that the sum of white people being shot by police does mean a little something. You can't adjust one side of the equation without adjusting the other side.

 

Read my response to that post....it has all the numbers that you are looking for.

[Danny Bateman]

I forgot to add this. Police departments are not exempt from scandals and misbehavior:

 

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer

 

http://kron4.com/2016/05/10/investigation-links-oakland-police-officers-to-alleged-sexual-misconduct-with-underage-girl/

 

http://kron4.com/2016/05/24/kron-investigation-graphic-details-revealed-about-alleged-oakland-police-sex-scandal/

 

Look at what Oakland PD is dealing with there. Not good stuff. Of course it's the minority of police, but to deny that there is BAD out there amongst them and that sometimes is institutional or cultural in in nature is not being honest, either.

 

Our police are people like anyone else. They're not infallible.

[AFhusker]

I would like to see links to any time Obama has insinuated that specific cops in specific situations were guilty. All I can recall him addressing is the systemic problem that exists across our nation, that people may or may not correctly attribute to individual situations.

 

Ferguson is a great example. The Attorney General found that Darren Wilson was innocent and within the law in shooting Michael Brown, but it was also found out that there was a horrifying culture of systemic racial bias in the Ferguson police department. So while the protestors were wrong in propping up Michael Brown's death as a specific example of police brutality, they weren't wrong in their condemnation of what it represented to them, which was very real.

Look at every speech he has had after one of these unfortunate incidents. Yes Ferguson was also a great example of passing judgement before knowing the facts. He did it again this past week and the incident in Minnesota was a Hispanic cop. Not to mention he is a backer of black lives matter when he should be saying all lives matter. Especially when they are chanting about wanting to kill cops like they have on numerous occasions, which is how you have stuff happen like you did in Dallas. Then look at his speeches after cops are killed, did he even give one when the two were assassinated in NY eating lunch in their car? Then when you have a racist like Sharpton in the White house 80-90 times, it isn't a good look for race relations either. That is why he has been such a disappointment when it comes to race relations, he should have been the great uniter, not a divider who has put us back to the 60's on this topic. He's living proof how far we have come as a nation as the position that he was elected to, it is too bad he used that power in the wrong way.

 

But you are right, the only good that came out of Ferguson was getting rid of that good old boy system and bias that was in Ferguson as there is no place for that anywhere against any race.

[AFhusker]

I forgot to add this. Police departments are not exempt from scandals and misbehavior:

 

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer

 

http://kron4.com/2016/05/10/investigation-links-oakland-police-officers-to-alleged-sexual-misconduct-with-underage-girl/

 

http://kron4.com/2016/05/24/kron-investigation-graphic-details-revealed-about-alleged-oakland-police-sex-scandal/

 

Look at what Oakland PD is dealing with there. Not good stuff. Of course it's the minority of police, but to deny that there is BAD out there amongst them and that sometimes is institutional or cultural in in nature is not being honest, either.

 

Our police are people like anyone else. They're not infallible.

I don't ever seeing on TV or here anyone saying that cops were infallible. That is why any death needs to be investigated, no matter the race of the cop or the one who was killed. I also think that it should be by an independent investigator that way we know that nothing is getting covered up.

[huskerfan2000]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20160710_Saturday_protesters___Disrupt____shut_down__outside_24th__25th_Police_Districts.html?mobi=true

 

http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2016/07/09/oink-oink-bang-bang-leader-of-philadelphia-protest-march-calls-dallas-shooting-justified-rage/

 

 

"I'm not concerned for what that brother did when he killed those cops. It was justified rage," Kamau Becktemba

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

And no one can have a rational discussion with you either Moiraine. You have your side and you are JUST as stubborn as I am whether you'll admit that or not. SAME goes for LOMS, I've argued with you two until I'm blue in the face. The fact that you're ready to jump all over this officer is equally as shocking. You can bully the discussion all you want. I simply don't care if you agree or not. He's guilty in the eyes of you two along with tons of other people and the media. And LOMS I'm not going into the racial talks with you, I've told you that several times before, not happening.

 

Back to the answer to all problems............gun control.

Ya, that's actually never been how the discussions have gone. Here's a basic rundown:

 

Myself and others:

 

Someone got killed by the police. This is tragic. The circumstances are questionable. I wish police officers had cameras so we could know what happened for sure. It should definitely be investigated.

 

This seems to happen too often where it concerns non-White people. I wonder if there is an issue here. Blacks are being killed at a much higher rate than Whites, even when unarmed.

 

BRI:

 

I'm a police officer. I would never do that and the police officers I know would never do that. Therefore this police officer is innocent and no one has a right to talk about it or think about it or question anything ever.

 

Completely false and not true, I choose to wait until the facts all come out and not jump to conclusions. I know what happens when people jump to conclusions from doing this job and how damaging that can be and will not do that. If you choose to take it that way, that's your problem, not mine. You don't even try to understand where I'm coming from. You'll read it the way you want it and the way you take something is now the truth. If after all of the facts come out the officer was wrong, then they can fry for what happened because they were wrong and tarnished my badge by making a poor choice.

 

 

 

And no one can have a rational discussion with you either Moiraine. You have your side and you are JUST as stubborn as I am whether you'll admit that or not. SAME goes for LOMS, I've argued with you two until I'm blue in the face. The fact that you're ready to jump all over this officer is equally as shocking. You can bully the discussion all you want. I simply don't care if you agree or not. He's guilty in the eyes of you two along with tons of other people and the media. And LOMS I'm not going into the racial talks with you, I've told you that several times before, not happening.

 

Back to the answer to all problems............gun control.

Ya, that's actually never been how the discussions have gone. Here's a basic rundown:

 

Myself and others:

 

Someone got killed by the police. This is tragic. The circumstances are questionable. I wish police officers had cameras so we could know what happened for sure. It should definitely be investigated.

 

This seems to happen too often where it concerns non-White people. I wonder if there is an issue here. Blacks are being killed at a much higher rate than Whites, even when unarmed.

 

BRI:

 

I'm a police officer. I would never do that and the police officers I know would never do that. Therefore this police officer is innocent and no one has a right to talk about it or think about it or question anything ever.

 

 

 

 

To be fair, BRI doesn't usually explicitly say, "No, you're wrong, he's innocent", but he does always defend police officers as a whole, and take the position of giving the benefit of the doubt to the officer in these situations.

 

 

BRI, I'll freely admit to jumping to hasty conclusions in some of these situations. Guilty as charged. I really try hard not to, but I'm working on it. That being said, you always give benefit of the doubt to the officer, because you're an officer. I get that. That's not all that bad of a thing, except it seems like 99.9% of cops give the benefit of the doubt to other cops, which is what results in police departments becoming the "good ole boys" club where they either protect dirty/abusive cops or they refuse to believe that otherwise good cops can act on subconscious bias, and it also makes it way too easy for officers to be above the law in minor to major scenarios, in my opinion.

 

I know it's a tough situation when you have two parties and you have to decide where the benefit of the doubt should be given. Same with rape cases. False accusations do exist, but doesn't it feel kind of dirty to give an alleged rapist the benefit of the doubt over an alleged victim? I'm still trying to figure out where to make sense of all of that when it relates to police and shootings/use of force. However, the data is overwhelmingly clear that minorities and specifically blacks suffer at the hands of police at alarmingly disproportionate rates. That HAS to stop. We HAVE to be able to take hard looks in the mirror and honestly entertain the idea that we might be part of the problem.

 

The Dallas PD did this. Instead of responding to any criticism with "99% of cops are good and we're sick of the criticisms", they asked, "What about these criticisms is true and how can we do better?" So they improved their training, their accountability, and their interaction with their community.

 

Excessive force complaints dropped 64%, assaults on officers dropped 30%, and police shootings dropped 40%. That's less tension, more respect, and more people still alive, and that's to be commended. How many police departments are led with that kind of humility and determination to do what they can on their end to make things better?

 

They get the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts come out due to the nature of our media's agenda towards the police right now. See above for further comments on this.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Posted on facebook by a African American Police Officer:

 

I have come to realize something that is still hard for me to understand to this day. The following may be a shock to some coming from an African American, but the mere fact that it may be shocking to some is prima facie evidence of the sad state of affairs that we are in as Humans.

 

I used to be so torn inside growing up. Here I am, a young African-American born and raised in Brooklyn, NY wanting to be a cop. I watched and lived through the crime that took place in the hood. My own black people killing others over nothing. Crack heads and heroin addicts lined the lobby of my building as I shuffled around them to make my way to our 1 bedroom apartment with 6 of us living inside. I used to be woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of gun fire, only to look outside and see that it was 2 African Americans shooting at each other.

It never sat right with me. I wanted to help my community and stop watching the blood of African Americans spilled on the street at the hands of a fellow black man. I became a cop because black lives in my community, along with ALL lives, mattered to me, and wanted to help stop the bloodshed.

 

As time went by in my law enforcement career, I quickly began to realize something. I remember the countless times I stood 2 inches from a young black man, around my age, laying on his back, gasping for air as blood filled his lungs. I remember them bleeding profusely with the unforgettable smell of deoxygenated dark red blood in the air, as it leaked from the bullet holes in his body on to the hot sidewalk on a summer day. I remember the countless family members who attacked me, spit on me, cursed me out, as I put up crime scene tape to cordon off the crime scene, yelling and screaming out of pain and anger at the sight of their loved ones taking their last breath. I never took it personally, I knew they were hurting. I remember the countless times I had to order new uniforms, because the ones I had on, were bloody from the blood of another black victim…of black on black crime. I remember the countless times I got back in my patrol car, distraught after having watched another black male die in front me, having to start my preliminary report something like this:

Suspect- Black/ Male, Victim-Black /Male.

 

I remember the countless times I canvassed the area afterwards, and asked everyone “did you see who did it”, and the popular response from the very same family members was always, “f#*k the Police, I aint no snitch, Im gonna take care of this myself. This happened every single time, every single homicide, black on black, and then my realization became clearer.

I woke up every morning, put my freshly pressed uniform on, shined my badge, functioned checked my weapon, kissed my wife and kid, and waited for my wife to say the same thing she always does before I leave, “Make sure you come back home to us”. I always replied, “I will”, but the truth was I was never sure if I would. I almost lost my life on this job, and every call, every stop, every moment that I had this uniform on, was another possibility for me to almost lose my life again. I was a target in the very community I swore to protect, the very community I wanted to help. As a matter of fact, they hated my very presence. They called me “Uncle Tom”, and “wanna be white boy”, and I couldn’t understand why. My own fellow black men and women attacking me, wishing for my death, wishing for the death of my family. I was so confused, so torn, I couldn’t understand why my own black people would turn against me, when every time they called …I was there. Every time someone died….I was there. Every time they were going through one of the worst moments in their lives…I was there. So why was I the enemy? I dove deep into that question…Why was I the enemy? Then my realization became clearer.

 

I spoke to members of the community and listened to some of the complaints as to why they hated cops. I then did research on the facts. I also presented facts to these members of the community, and listened to their complaints in response. This is what I learned:

 

Complaint: Police always targeting us, they always messing with the black man.

Fact: A city where the majority of citizens are black (Baltimore for example) …will ALWAYS have a higher rate of black people getting arrested, it will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting stopped, and will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting killed, and the reason why is because a city with those characteristics will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks committing crime. The statistics will follow the same trend for Asians if you go to China, for Hispanics if you go to Puerto Rico, for whites if you go to Russia, and the list goes on. It’s called Demographics

 

Complaint: More black people get arrested than white boys.

Fact: Black People commit a grossly disproportionate amount of crime. Data from the FBI shows that Nationwide, Blacks committed 5,173 homicides in 2014, whites committed 4,367. Chicago’s death toll is almost equal to that of both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined. Chicago’s death toll from 2001–November, 26 2015 stands at 7,401. The combined total deaths during Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003-2015: 4,815) and Operation Enduring Freedom/Afghanistan (2001-2015: 3,506), total 8,321.

 

Complaint: Blacks are the only ones getting killed by police, or they are killed more.

Fact: As of July 2016, the breakdown of the number of US Citizens killed by Police this year is, 238 White people killed, 123 Black people killed, 79 Hispanics, 69 other/or unknown race.

Fact: Black people kill more other blacks than Police do, and there are only protest and outrage when a cop kills a black man. University of Toledo criminologist Dr. Richard R. Johnson examined the latest crime data from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports and Centers for Disease Control and found that an average of 4,472 black men were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012. Professor Johnson’s research further concluded that 112 black men died from both justified and unjustified police-involved killings annually during this same period.

 

Complaint: Well we already doing a good job of killing ourselves, we don’t need the Police to do it. Besides they should know better.

The more I listened, the more I realized. The more I researched, the more I realized. I would ask questions, and would only get emotional responses & inferences based on no facts at all. The more killing I saw, the more tragedy, the more savagery, the more violence, the more loss of life of a black man at the hands of another black man….the more I realized.

I haven’t slept well in the past few nights. Heartbreak weighs me down, rage flows through my veins, and tears fills my eyes. I watched my fellow officers assassinated on live television, and the images of them laying on the ground are seared into my brain forever. I couldn’t help but wonder if it had been me, a black man, a black cop, on TV, assassinated, laying on the ground dead,..would my friends and family still think black lives mattered? Would my life have mattered? Would they make t-shirts in remembrance of me? Would they go on tv and protest violence? Would they even make a Facebook post, or share a post in reference to my death?

 

All of my realizations came to this conclusion. Black Lives do not matter to most black people. Only the lives that make the national news matter to them. Only the lives that are taken at the hands of cops or white people, matter. The other thousands of lives lost, the other black souls that I along with every cop, have seen taken at the hands of other blacks, do not matter. Their deaths are unnoticed, accepted as the “norm”, and swept underneath the rug by the very people who claim and post “black lives matter”. I realized that this country is full of ignorance, where an educated individual will watch the ratings-driven news media, and watch a couple YouTube video clips, and then come to the conclusion that they have all the knowledge they need to have in order to know what it feels like to have a bullet proof vest as part of your office equipment, “Stay Alive” as part of your daily to do list, and having insurance for your health insurance because of the high rate of death in your profession. They watch a couple videos and then they magically know in 2 minutes 35 seconds, how you are supposed to handle a violent encounter, which took you 6 months of Academy training, 2 – 3 months of field training, and countless years of blood, sweat, tears and broken bones experiencing violent encounters and fine tuning your execution of the Use of Force Continuum. I realized that there are even cops, COPS, duly sworn law enforcement officers, who are supposed to be decent investigators, who will publicly go on the media and call other white cops racist and KKK, based on a video clip that they watched thousands of miles away, which was filmed after the fact, based on a case where the details aren’t even known yet and the investigation hasn’t even begun. I realized that most in the African American community refuse to look at solving the bigger problem that I see and deal with every day, which is black on black crime taking hundreds of innocent black lives each year, and instead focus on the 9 questionable deaths of black men, where some were in the act of committing crimes. I realized that they value the life of a Sex Offender and Convicted Felon, [who was in the act of committing multiple felonies: felon in possession of a firearm-FELONY, brandishing and threatening a homeless man with a gun-Aggravated Assault in Florida: FELONY, who resisted officers who first tried to taze him, and WAS NOT RESTRAINED, who can be clearly seen in one of the videos raising his right shoulder, then shooting it down towards the right side of his body exactly where the firearm was located and recovered] more than the lives of the innocent cops who were assassinated in Dallas protecting the very people that hated them the most. I realized that they refuse to believe that most cops acknowledge that there are Bad cops who should have never been given a badge & gun, who are chicken sh#t and will shoot a cockroach if it crawls at them too fast, who never worked in the hood and may be intimidated. That most cops dread the thought of having to shoot someone, and never see the turmoil and mental anguish that a cop goes through after having to kill someone to save his own life. Instead they believe that we are all blood thirsty killers, because the media says so, even though the numbers prove otherwise. I realize that they truly feel as if the death of cops will help people realize the false narrative that Black Lives Matter, when all it will do is take their movement two steps backwards and label them domestic terrorist. I realized that some of these people, who say Black Lives Matter, are full of hate and racism. Hate for cops, because of the false narrative that more black people are targeted and killed. Racism against white people, for a tragedy that began 100’s of years ago, when most of the white people today weren’t even born yet. I realized that some in the African American community’s idea of “Justice” is the prosecution of ANY and EVERY cop or white man that kills or is believed to have killed a black man, no matter what the circumstances are. I realized the African American community refuses to look within to solve its major issues, and instead makes excuses and looks outside for solutions. I realized that a lot of people in the African American community lead with hate, instead of love. Division instead of Unity. Turmoil and rioting, instead of Peace. I realized that they have become the very entity that they claim they are fighting against.

 

I realized that the very reasons I became a cop, are the very reasons my own people hate me, and now in this toxic hateful racially charged political climate, I am now more likely to die,... and it is still hard for me to understand…. to this day.

[Enhance]

Enhance, allow me to attempt to draw a parallel between the discussion LOMS/Moiraine are having with AF/BRI and gun control.

 

Let me say this first as a disclaimer: I have tremendous respect for those who wear the uniform. Any uniform, really. Public service is noble and deserves our respect. Those who enter such professions don't typically pay well and face danger nearly every damn day. I really appreciate that they put themselves at risk to serve the public.

 

Those in the uniform deserve both our respect and the same protections as any other citizen. They too are innocent until proven guilty. So obviously we all jump to our own hasty conclusions when we see video like we saw in Louisiana, Minnesota, or Dallas, but we've got to wait until all the facts come out later to be able to really make an informed judgment about what happened. That's the way law works, for good reason.

 

BUT, even though everyone deserves the same right to due process, I don't believe any profession deserves blanket protection beyond that. Everyone has to deal with criticism and the court of public opinion. Just because someone works a profession as noble as public service doesn't mean they should be immune from criticism if the situation calls for it.

 

From what I've seen, many in law enforcement want to dismiss claims of systemic bias and other criticisms as disingenuous or unfounded strikes me as a roadblock to meaningful change. In the very same way that hardline, radical protestors preferring to blanket all cops as killers and racists rather than hearing them out or waiting for the facts to come out is a roadblock. In the very same way that those afraid of losing their NRA gravy train watch shooting after shooting happen in this country and then sit on their hands like they can't do a damn thing instead of passing meaningful gun reform.

 

Acknowledging there is an actual problem that requires discussion is the first step in starting any meaningful conversation that can lead to any substantial change.

 

Those who flatly reject dissenting opinions about differing realities of the situation as unfounded, ridiculous, insulting, or intellectually disingenuous prevent the change we need.

 

Saying "Your opinion is different than mine; it's invalid" is not productive.

I agree with pretty much everything here. I've worked for the media and ere on the side of transparency in all things; some who know me would argue, in fact, that I tend to lean this way too much.

 

The only thing I'm saying is that uninformed, reactionary opinions do not solve problems. It's happening now, it happened in Ferguson, it happens every time.

 

We can all have honest dialogues about "systemic biases" or other issues that plague communities, from citizens to police officers and on up, but there is a way to go about doing this.

 

Unfortunately, that's not what we're seeing in many parts of the country.

[JJ Husker]

Posted on facebook by a African American Police Officer:

 

I have come to realize something that is still hard for me to understand to this day. The following may be a shock to some coming from an African American, but the mere fact that it may be shocking to some is prima facie evidence of the sad state of affairs that we are in as Humans.

 

 

I used to be so torn inside growing up. Here I am, a young African-American born and raised in Brooklyn, NY wanting to be a cop. I watched and lived through the crime that took place in the hood. My own black people killing others over nothing. Crack heads and heroin addicts lined the lobby of my building as I shuffled around them to make my way to our 1 bedroom apartment with 6 of us living inside. I used to be woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of gun fire, only to look outside and see that it was 2 African Americans shooting at each other.

It never sat right with me. I wanted to help my community and stop watching the blood of African Americans spilled on the street at the hands of a fellow black man. I became a cop because black lives in my community, along with ALL lives, mattered to me, and wanted to help stop the bloodshed.

 

As time went by in my law enforcement career, I quickly began to realize something. I remember the countless times I stood 2 inches from a young black man, around my age, laying on his back, gasping for air as blood filled his lungs. I remember them bleeding profusely with the unforgettable smell of deoxygenated dark red blood in the air, as it leaked from the bullet holes in his body on to the hot sidewalk on a summer day. I remember the countless family members who attacked me, spit on me, cursed me out, as I put up crime scene tape to cordon off the crime scene, yelling and screaming out of pain and anger at the sight of their loved ones taking their last breath. I never took it personally, I knew they were hurting. I remember the countless times I had to order new uniforms, because the ones I had on, were bloody from the blood of another black victim…of black on black crime. I remember the countless times I got back in my patrol car, distraught after having watched another black male die in front me, having to start my preliminary report something like this:

Suspect- Black/ Male, Victim-Black /Male.

 

I remember the countless times I canvassed the area afterwards, and asked everyone “did you see who did it”, and the popular response from the very same family members was always, “f#*k the Police, I aint no snitch, Im gonna take care of this myself. This happened every single time, every single homicide, black on black, and then my realization became clearer.

I woke up every morning, put my freshly pressed uniform on, shined my badge, functioned checked my weapon, kissed my wife and kid, and waited for my wife to say the same thing she always does before I leave, “Make sure you come back home to us”. I always replied, “I will”, but the truth was I was never sure if I would. I almost lost my life on this job, and every call, every stop, every moment that I had this uniform on, was another possibility for me to almost lose my life again. I was a target in the very community I swore to protect, the very community I wanted to help. As a matter of fact, they hated my very presence. They called me “Uncle Tom”, and “wanna be white boy”, and I couldn’t understand why. My own fellow black men and women attacking me, wishing for my death, wishing for the death of my family. I was so confused, so torn, I couldn’t understand why my own black people would turn against me, when every time they called …I was there. Every time someone died….I was there. Every time they were going through one of the worst moments in their lives…I was there. So why was I the enemy? I dove deep into that question…Why was I the enemy? Then my realization became clearer.

 

I spoke to members of the community and listened to some of the complaints as to why they hated cops. I then did research on the facts. I also presented facts to these members of the community, and listened to their complaints in response. This is what I learned:

 

Complaint: Police always targeting us, they always messing with the black man.

Fact: A city where the majority of citizens are black (Baltimore for example) …will ALWAYS have a higher rate of black people getting arrested, it will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting stopped, and will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting killed, and the reason why is because a city with those characteristics will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks committing crime. The statistics will follow the same trend for Asians if you go to China, for Hispanics if you go to Puerto Rico, for whites if you go to Russia, and the list goes on. It’s called Demographics

 

Complaint: More black people get arrested than white boys.

Fact: Black People commit a grossly disproportionate amount of crime. Data from the FBI shows that Nationwide, Blacks committed 5,173 homicides in 2014, whites committed 4,367. Chicago’s death toll is almost equal to that of both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined. Chicago’s death toll from 2001–November, 26 2015 stands at 7,401. The combined total deaths during Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003-2015: 4,815) and Operation Enduring Freedom/Afghanistan (2001-2015: 3,506), total 8,321.

 

Complaint: Blacks are the only ones getting killed by police, or they are killed more.

Fact: As of July 2016, the breakdown of the number of US Citizens killed by Police this year is, 238 White people killed, 123 Black people killed, 79 Hispanics, 69 other/or unknown race.

Fact: Black people kill more other blacks than Police do, and there are only protest and outrage when a cop kills a black man. University of Toledo criminologist Dr. Richard R. Johnson examined the latest crime data from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports and Centers for Disease Control and found that an average of 4,472 black men were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012. Professor Johnson’s research further concluded that 112 black men died from both justified and unjustified police-involved killings annually during this same period.

 

Complaint: Well we already doing a good job of killing ourselves, we don’t need the Police to do it. Besides they should know better.

The more I listened, the more I realized. The more I researched, the more I realized. I would ask questions, and would only get emotional responses & inferences based on no facts at all. The more killing I saw, the more tragedy, the more savagery, the more violence, the more loss of life of a black man at the hands of another black man….the more I realized.

I haven’t slept well in the past few nights. Heartbreak weighs me down, rage flows through my veins, and tears fills my eyes. I watched my fellow officers assassinated on live television, and the images of them laying on the ground are seared into my brain forever. I couldn’t help but wonder if it had been me, a black man, a black cop, on TV, assassinated, laying on the ground dead,..would my friends and family still think black lives mattered? Would my life have mattered? Would they make t-shirts in remembrance of me? Would they go on tv and protest violence? Would they even make a Facebook post, or share a post in reference to my death?

 

All of my realizations came to this conclusion. Black Lives do not matter to most black people. Only the lives that make the national news matter to them. Only the lives that are taken at the hands of cops or white people, matter. The other thousands of lives lost, the other black souls that I along with every cop, have seen taken at the hands of other blacks, do not matter. Their deaths are unnoticed, accepted as the “norm”, and swept underneath the rug by the very people who claim and post “black lives matter”. I realized that this country is full of ignorance, where an educated individual will watch the ratings-driven news media, and watch a couple YouTube video clips, and then come to the conclusion that they have all the knowledge they need to have in order to know what it feels like to have a bullet proof vest as part of your office equipment, “Stay Alive” as part of your daily to do list, and having insurance for your health insurance because of the high rate of death in your profession. They watch a couple videos and then they magically know in 2 minutes 35 seconds, how you are supposed to handle a violent encounter, which took you 6 months of Academy training, 2 – 3 months of field training, and countless years of blood, sweat, tears and broken bones experiencing violent encounters and fine tuning your execution of the Use of Force Continuum. I realized that there are even cops, COPS, duly sworn law enforcement officers, who are supposed to be decent investigators, who will publicly go on the media and call other white cops racist and KKK, based on a video clip that they watched thousands of miles away, which was filmed after the fact, based on a case where the details aren’t even known yet and the investigation hasn’t even begun. I realized that most in the African American community refuse to look at solving the bigger problem that I see and deal with every day, which is black on black crime taking hundreds of innocent black lives each year, and instead focus on the 9 questionable deaths of black men, where some were in the act of committing crimes. I realized that they value the life of a Sex Offender and Convicted Felon, [who was in the act of committing multiple felonies: felon in possession of a firearm-FELONY, brandishing and threatening a homeless man with a gun-Aggravated Assault in Florida: FELONY, who resisted officers who first tried to taze him, and WAS NOT RESTRAINED, who can be clearly seen in one of the videos raising his right shoulder, then shooting it down towards the right side of his body exactly where the firearm was located and recovered] more than the lives of the innocent cops who were assassinated in Dallas protecting the very people that hated them the most. I realized that they refuse to believe that most cops acknowledge that there are Bad cops who should have never been given a badge & gun, who are chicken sh#t and will shoot a cockroach if it crawls at them too fast, who never worked in the hood and may be intimidated. That most cops dread the thought of having to shoot someone, and never see the turmoil and mental anguish that a cop goes through after having to kill someone to save his own life. Instead they believe that we are all blood thirsty killers, because the media says so, even though the numbers prove otherwise. I realize that they truly feel as if the death of cops will help people realize the false narrative that Black Lives Matter, when all it will do is take their movement two steps backwards and label them domestic terrorist. I realized that some of these people, who say Black Lives Matter, are full of hate and racism. Hate for cops, because of the false narrative that more black people are targeted and killed. Racism against white people, for a tragedy that began 100’s of years ago, when most of the white people today weren’t even born yet. I realized that some in the African American community’s idea of “Justice” is the prosecution of ANY and EVERY cop or white man that kills or is believed to have killed a black man, no matter what the circumstances are. I realized the African American community refuses to look within to solve its major issues, and instead makes excuses and looks outside for solutions. I realized that a lot of people in the African American community lead with hate, instead of love. Division instead of Unity. Turmoil and rioting, instead of Peace. I realized that they have become the very entity that they claim they are fighting against.

 

I realized that the very reasons I became a cop, are the very reasons my own people hate me, and now in this toxic hateful racially charged political climate, I am now more likely to die,... and it is still hard for me to understand…. to this day.

 

This is an excellent post that everybody should read. Even though it seems like more of an amalgamation of events than the actual personal account it is portrayed as, I think the story and lessons shared are well worth everyone's time.

[Landlord]

I'm a black ex-cop, and this is the real truth about race and policing

 

"Nevertheless, many Americans believe that police officers are generally good, noble heroes. A Gallup poll from 2014 asked Americans to rate the honesty and ethical standards of people in various fields: police officers ranked in the top five, just above members of the clergy. The profession — the endeavor — is noble. But this myth about the general goodness of cops obscures the truth of what needs to be done to fix the system. It makes it look like all we need to do is hire good people, rather than fix the entire system. Institutional racism runs throughout our criminal justice system. Its presence in police culture, though often flatly denied by the many police apologists that appear in the media now, has been central to the breakdown in police-community relationships for decades in spite of good people doing police work.

Here's what I wish Americans understood about the men and women who serve in their police departments — and what needs to be done to make the system better for everyone."

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer

We can all see what we want to see. The data proves systemic bias towards minorities by our justice system. That doesn't mean the majority of cops are bad, it doesn't mean #BLM is anti-police, it doesn't mean there's a witch hunt going on, it means there is a problem that EVERYONE needs to figure out how to contribute to the solution of, instead of blaming it on others or buckling down in defense of your tribe.