Nebraska's Michael Rose-Ivey receives racial backlash for anthem protest

[Landlord]

the flag represents a country that oppresses black people and people of color? Oppresses. Really?

 

Yep. Really. Crazy I know, but true.

 

 

Show me an American policy that puts Americans of any kind at a disadvantage, especially considering we've had a BLACK president for 8 years.

 

The Homestead Act, the GI Bill, the drug war, and voting ID laws would be a good place to start.

 

 

 

 

Yes, sadly, they cannot help the racism that happened 50 years ago, and it still plagues them to today. However, getting them out of poverty has more to do with simply eliminating poverty than racism.

 

There are a lot of things our government could do, and that we could do as people, to help lessen the effects and influence of 50 years ago racism on modern day America. But way too much of the narrative is centered around defending the notion that racism doesn't even exist. And poverty/racism are inextricably linked - it's not one or the other. Eliminating poverty IS eliminating racism, or at least parts.

 

 

 

 

The country itself is not why racism exists...It is not the country that caused it. By kneeling for the anthem, you make it sound like they are being oppressed federally, when it is 100% society.

 

First, there's plenty of good arguments that minorities ARE still being oppressed federally, but even if they aren't in present day, they had been for hundreds of years, and the fallout and effects of that are still seen today.

 

Second, if our country didn't cause racism (within the context of our country), then....what did? Who did? Is it somehow the initial fault of anyone other than colonists shipping in negro slaves?

[STL Husker]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Either way, the national anthem is not the time or place to protest.

When would be a more convenient time for you to have them protest?

 

A time that is not offensive to a ton of people. Name a time and place that will draw attention. Kaep did it, even though his idea sucked.

 

I think we're getting hung up on semantics here. GBRHouston is (I believe) supportive of the right to protest, he just believes the National Anthem isn't the time or place. He knows that protests can happen anytime, anywhere, and he's OK with that. He just doesn't have to like it (and that's his right).

 

Thank you! That is where I have been trying to get at for the past 10 pages but I kept getting bashed for topics I didn't even bring up.

 

I do understand your position.

 

I just disagree with it.

 

Hey, y'know what? I'm fine as long as it's understood.

 

I'm with Knapp. I'm only "bashing" you because you are willing to engage in the argument. There are a lot of people who feel the same way as you who aren't speaking up or don't do it as well as you are. I really hope you don't think I am coming at you with any animosity. This is just a subject that is hard to discuss without getting a little heated.

[GBRHouston]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Either way, the national anthem is not the time or place to protest.

When would be a more convenient time for you to have them protest?

 

A time that is not offensive to a ton of people. Name a time and place that will draw attention. Kaep did it, even though his idea sucked.

 

I think we're getting hung up on semantics here. GBRHouston is (I believe) supportive of the right to protest, he just believes the National Anthem isn't the time or place. He knows that protests can happen anytime, anywhere, and he's OK with that. He just doesn't have to like it (and that's his right).

 

Thank you! That is where I have been trying to get at for the past 10 pages but I kept getting bashed for topics I didn't even bring up.

 

I do understand your position.

 

I just disagree with it.

 

Hey, y'know what? I'm fine as long as it's understood.

 

I'm with Knapp. I'm only "bashing" you because you are willing to engage in the argument. There are a lot of people who feel the same way as you who aren't speaking up or don't do it as well as you are. I really hope you don't think I am coming at you with any animosity. This is just a subject that is hard to discuss without getting a little heated.

 

I addressed no specific names, I did not say you specifically were.

[GBRHouston]

 

the flag represents a country that oppresses black people and people of color? Oppresses. Really?

 

Yep. Really. Crazy I know, but true.

 

 

Show me an American policy that puts Americans of any kind at a disadvantage, especially considering we've had a BLACK president for 8 years.

 

The Homestead Act, the GI Bill, the drug war, and voting ID laws would be a good place to start.

 

 

 

 

Yes, sadly, they cannot help the racism that happened 50 years ago, and it still plagues them to today. However, getting them out of poverty has more to do with simply eliminating poverty than racism.

 

There are a lot of things our government could do, and that we could do as people, to help lessen the effects and influence of 50 years ago racism on modern day America. But way too much of the narrative is centered around defending the notion that racism doesn't even exist. And poverty/racism are inextricably linked - it's not one or the other. Eliminating poverty IS eliminating racism, or at least parts.

 

 

 

 

The country itself is not why racism exists...It is not the country that caused it. By kneeling for the anthem, you make it sound like they are being oppressed federally, when it is 100% society.

 

First, there's plenty of good arguments that minorities ARE still being oppressed federally, but even if they aren't in present day, they had been for hundreds of years, and the fallout and effects of that are still seen today.

 

Second, if our country didn't cause racism (within the context of our country), then....what did? Who did? Is it somehow the initial fault of anyone other than colonists shipping in negro slaves?

 

I am not going to talk about whether or not racism exists anymore as that does not pertain to the main argument I am trying to make. Yes, racism does exist.

[Jeremy]

 

What are the causes of the issues on reservations and in the Native American community? What are the solutions to these issues? How am I causing anyone in the Native American community to be an alcoholic? (Though, I can see how my constant prattling might drive some here to the bottle.)

 

I was born into absolute poverty, but I'm doing okay now with my wife and kids. Any poor decisions I've made are my fault and mine alone. Is this really a crazy or ignorant philosophy to have?

Regarding the bold, I think this is where a lot of White people are getting hung up on this and similar issues. It's associated to the "White Guilt" thing, and it really needs to stop.

 

White people, in general, are not the problem.

 

White people, in general, are not being blamed for racism in America. Clearly, this is excluding racists - those guys are bad. We all should look askance at those guys.

 

White people, in general, should not feel guilty, or listen to or take to heart the accusations by A FEW misguided minorities that "White People" are to blame.

 

If you, a White person, feels that you are being blamed for any of the institutional racism going on in American and this angers you, calm down. Stop feeling that way.

 

Where White people bear blame (again, aside from racist asshats), is in not being conscientious voters who make it a priority to keep racist politicians and their policies out of office. We're all guilty of that, but as things go, this is a small personal guilt. It adds up, but YOU, ME - we are not personally responsible for racism.

 

Jeremy, specifically to answer the question in bold - YOU are not responsible for that, you should not feel responsible or feel guilty or BE MADE TO FEEL any of those things. You're some dude living your life not harming anyone intentionally (I presume. Maybe you're raising your kids to be Iowa fans and if so, you're very bad and you should feel bad).

 

Yes, there are websites and videos and statements you can quote where someone is "blaming Whitey" for all the problems. You can choose to take that to heart or you can recognize it's yet more racist blather.

 

Where White Guy should clean up their act is vote against racism, both in the ballot box and with your dollar. Don't support racist companies.

 

Don't support racist politicians. Also, White Guy should strive to harbor no ill will toward minorities in their heart. That's an individual thing. It's not always easy, especially when you think you're being wrongly accused. But if you work at it, you can get there.

 

 

 

Thanks. The last team my kids would like besides the skers are the hawkeyes. Although my oldest son, 11, has taken a small liking to Sparty. I think he just likes their mascot and 'what is your profession?' chant.

[Guy Chamberlin]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am going to get back to the topic of protesting during the national anthem, as arguing about whether or not there is racism is irrelevant and causes this thread to get unnecessarily heated.

 

The country itself is not why racism exists. It is the society of many people in this country. Kneeling for the national anthem because the country "oppresses" black people is wrong. It is not the country that caused it. By kneeling for the anthem, you make it sound like they are being oppressed federally, when it is 100% society.

That's the way you are interpreting it, which goes directly against MRI's statement on Monday.

 

I was talking about what started the fad, not why MRI did it. Look at what Kaep said after he sat the first time.

 

 

Maybe the first bolded is the disconnect?

 

Which fad are you talking about? Systemic & institutional repression of minorities? I think 300+ years is more than a fad...

 

Or did you mean peaceful non-compliance during the national anthem? That's been going since there was a national anthem, definitely since the 1950s. Again, too long to be a fad.

 

Let's looks at what Kaepernick said:

 

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color"

 

"To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

 

How are the above incorrect from Kaepernick's and other athletes of color's life experiences? If many people of color all have similar experiences of racism and oppression, is it possible that our white experience is the exception?

 

EDIT: The "it's not the country, it's the people" line is a cop-out. Show me a country that exists with a human population of 0...

 

Ugh. I am making legit points and they get shot down by saying they're "cop-outs."

 

Kaepernick has always been an attention hog. I have always disliked him. I knew he wouldn't be happy when he became the backup. I still maintain the fact that he did this for attention. I will be disagreed with, but knowing what he has done in the past, that is my theory. Everyone is following him with legitimate points, but the person who came up with the idea came up with it for the wrong reasons.

 

Either way, the national anthem is not the time or place to protest.

 

When would be a more convenient time for you to have them protest?

 

A time that is not offensive to a ton of people. Name a time and place that will draw attention. Kaep did it, even though his idea sucked.

 

 

 

 

 

the flag represents a country that oppresses black people and people of color? Oppresses. Really?

 

Yep. Really. Crazy I know, but true.

 

 

Show me an American policy that puts Americans of any kind at a disadvantage, especially considering we've had a BLACK president for 8 years.

 

The Homestead Act, the GI Bill, the drug war, and voting ID laws would be a good place to start.

 

 

 

 

Yes, sadly, they cannot help the racism that happened 50 years ago, and it still plagues them to today. However, getting them out of poverty has more to do with simply eliminating poverty than racism.

 

There are a lot of things our government could do, and that we could do as people, to help lessen the effects and influence of 50 years ago racism on modern day America. But way too much of the narrative is centered around defending the notion that racism doesn't even exist. And poverty/racism are inextricably linked - it's not one or the other. Eliminating poverty IS eliminating racism, or at least parts.

 

 

 

 

The country itself is not why racism exists...It is not the country that caused it. By kneeling for the anthem, you make it sound like they are being oppressed federally, when it is 100% society.

 

First, there's plenty of good arguments that minorities ARE still being oppressed federally, but even if they aren't in present day, they had been for hundreds of years, and the fallout and effects of that are still seen today.

 

Second, if our country didn't cause racism (within the context of our country), then....what did? Who did? Is it somehow the initial fault of anyone other than colonists shipping in negro slaves?

 

I am not going to talk about whether or not racism exists anymore as that does not pertain to the main argument I am trying to make. Yes, racism does exist.

 

 

Just a few posts ago you said blacks inherited poverty in this country, but it has nothing to do with racism.

 

That's so far off the mark into wishful thinking that it does give pause to every other argument you are trying to make.

[GBRHouston]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am going to get back to the topic of protesting during the national anthem, as arguing about whether or not there is racism is irrelevant and causes this thread to get unnecessarily heated.

 

The country itself is not why racism exists. It is the society of many people in this country. Kneeling for the national anthem because the country "oppresses" black people is wrong. It is not the country that caused it. By kneeling for the anthem, you make it sound like they are being oppressed federally, when it is 100% society.

That's the way you are interpreting it, which goes directly against MRI's statement on Monday.

 

I was talking about what started the fad, not why MRI did it. Look at what Kaep said after he sat the first time.

 

 

Maybe the first bolded is the disconnect?

 

Which fad are you talking about? Systemic & institutional repression of minorities? I think 300+ years is more than a fad...

 

Or did you mean peaceful non-compliance during the national anthem? That's been going since there was a national anthem, definitely since the 1950s. Again, too long to be a fad.

 

Let's looks at what Kaepernick said:

 

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color"

 

"To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

 

How are the above incorrect from Kaepernick's and other athletes of color's life experiences? If many people of color all have similar experiences of racism and oppression, is it possible that our white experience is the exception?

 

EDIT: The "it's not the country, it's the people" line is a cop-out. Show me a country that exists with a human population of 0...

 

Ugh. I am making legit points and they get shot down by saying they're "cop-outs."

 

Kaepernick has always been an attention hog. I have always disliked him. I knew he wouldn't be happy when he became the backup. I still maintain the fact that he did this for attention. I will be disagreed with, but knowing what he has done in the past, that is my theory. Everyone is following him with legitimate points, but the person who came up with the idea came up with it for the wrong reasons.

 

Either way, the national anthem is not the time or place to protest.

 

When would be a more convenient time for you to have them protest?

 

A time that is not offensive to a ton of people. Name a time and place that will draw attention. Kaep did it, even though his idea sucked.

 

 

 

 

 

the flag represents a country that oppresses black people and people of color? Oppresses. Really?

 

Yep. Really. Crazy I know, but true.

 

 

Show me an American policy that puts Americans of any kind at a disadvantage, especially considering we've had a BLACK president for 8 years.

 

The Homestead Act, the GI Bill, the drug war, and voting ID laws would be a good place to start.

 

 

 

 

Yes, sadly, they cannot help the racism that happened 50 years ago, and it still plagues them to today. However, getting them out of poverty has more to do with simply eliminating poverty than racism.

 

There are a lot of things our government could do, and that we could do as people, to help lessen the effects and influence of 50 years ago racism on modern day America. But way too much of the narrative is centered around defending the notion that racism doesn't even exist. And poverty/racism are inextricably linked - it's not one or the other. Eliminating poverty IS eliminating racism, or at least parts.

 

 

 

 

The country itself is not why racism exists...It is not the country that caused it. By kneeling for the anthem, you make it sound like they are being oppressed federally, when it is 100% society.

 

First, there's plenty of good arguments that minorities ARE still being oppressed federally, but even if they aren't in present day, they had been for hundreds of years, and the fallout and effects of that are still seen today.

 

Second, if our country didn't cause racism (within the context of our country), then....what did? Who did? Is it somehow the initial fault of anyone other than colonists shipping in negro slaves?

 

I am not going to talk about whether or not racism exists anymore as that does not pertain to the main argument I am trying to make. Yes, racism does exist.

 

 

Just a few posts ago you said blacks inherited poverty in this country, but it has nothing to do with racism.

 

That's so far off the mark into wishful thinking that it does give pause to every other argument you are trying to make.

 

I never said racism doesn't exist.

[Landlord]

No one said that you said racism doesn't exist.

[GBRHouston]

No one said that you said racism doesn't exist.

I said I wanted to put that to rest as it did not pertain to my main argument.

[knapplc]

Hal Daub doubling and tripling and quadrupling down on his stance on 1620 The Zone right now.

[Guy Chamberlin]

 

No one said that you said racism doesn't exist.

I said I wanted to put that to rest as it did not pertain to my main argument.

 

 

Honestly, I just want you to walk through this slowly so the point can't be avoided:

 

1) You admit that racism exists.

2) After which you say that black poverty in this country has nothing to do with racism.

3) Making it impossible to put anything to rest in your arguments.

 

Admitting racism exists doesn't un-paint the corner you're in.

[Jeremy]

I have no idea how or why the Homestead Act and the GI Bill are oppressive toward minorities - I guess I'd have to research that.

 

The drug war is a tough one. I'm getting more on the side of leaving non-violent offenders alone, as that would probably help a lot.

 

 

I don't see why there would be a problem with demanding to see someone's identification before they vote to verify their, you know, identity.

 

Raising taxes to fund or even over-fund school districts in minority areas is an idea I could get behind. If there are, in fact, real disparities between white and minority districts, I believe there should be some real change considering there are a lot of federal dollars involved as well.

[BigRedBuster]

Hal Daub doubling and tripling and quadrupling down on his stance on 1620 The Zone right now.

Wait....I thought he didn't say the things that were printed in the paper.

[BigRedBuster]

[Landlord]

I have no idea how or why the Homestead Act and the GI Bill are oppressive toward minorities - I guess I'd have to research that.

 

The drug war is a tough one. I'm getting more on the side of leaving non-violent offenders alone, as that would probably help a lot.

 

 

I don't see why there would be a problem with demanding to see someone's identification before they vote to verify their, you know, identity.

 

Raising taxes to fund or even over-fund school districts in minority areas is an idea I could get behind. If there are, in fact, real disparities between white and minority districts, I believe there should be some real change considering there are a lot of federal dollars involved as well.

 

 

 

Homestead/GI essentially gave free land exclusively to whites that contributed to generational wealth still seen today. The economic disparities between races are linked to the racist history of our country, where blacks have been excluded from handouts/benefits/offerings to whites.

 

Imagine for a second the outrage if the federal government just started giving away free housing (as in ownership) and land to minorities. Imagine the reaction of white america and the outrage over these "handouts".

 

 

 

Voter ID laws, the way they exist or are being pushed to exist in many states, are a direct effort to disenfranchise and disallow poor/minority communities to be able to vote for their representatives. Do some googling.

 

Another easy one I forgot was stop and frisk, which Donald Trump seems to be a really big fan of bringing back.