A Christian republic (POLL)

[BigRedBuster]

I am often guilty of failing to make coherent cases for my viewpoint on these forums. Sometimes I fail to grasp someone else's argument as well.

 

I think this is one of those times. I'm not sure what we've spent the last 50-ish posts debating.

This thread went way deeper into certain areas than anyone intended it to go and it didn't need to.

 

Sorry if I was the catalyst for that.

[Making Chimichangas]

As someone who is a member of the LBGTQIA community, to read stuff like this...it terrifies me.

 

It terrifies me that there are large numbers of "christians" who want to install their own version of christian sharia law and literally FORCE everyone into adhering to their beliefs.

 

It terrifies me that there seems to be an ever growing portion of the population who are perfectly fine with this kind of discrimination, bigotry, and hatred.

 

It terrifies me that I will soon have nowhere to go for any kind of legal protections.

 

It terrifies me that this kind of bigotry, intolerance, and hatred, is so "normalized" and accepted.

 

It makes me incredibly angry that christian bigots are given free reign to spread such hate in the name of a "god" that doesn't even exist.

 

The Founding Fathers saw the corruption in the Church of England and founded our country with a Constitution and as a Democratic Republic, where religion was purposefully excluded from the public sector.

 

And here we are, in 2016 and the forces of evil, hate, and corruption (most christians) are busy trying to create the type of society they think they want, saying to hell with the Constitution, all because they think it's the LBGTQIA people who are ruining America.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/louisiana-governors-lgbt-rights-order-thrown-judge-44191156

 

This link is about one state, and a Democratic Governor, who tried to protect his state's most vunerable residents and a bigot republican who blocked it.

 

Stuff like this is happening all across this nation.

 

I'm tired of this. I'm tired of dealing with these christian bigots who use one damn line in their book of lies, fairy tales, and fables, to justify the demonization of one small subset of the population.

 

I'm tired of their hypocrisy, I'm tired of their holier-than-thou attitudes, and I'm really tired at constantly having to explain and justify my existence to a group of morons who conveniently ignore their own sin while using their utterly bullcrap beliefs to bully, threaten, discriminate, and hate on me and people are like me.

 

You know what else is considered an abomination according to "god?"

 

• eating pork, shrimp, crab, mussels, clams, lobsters, rabbit (and the list goes on)
• wearing mixed fabric clothing
• shaving your face
• getting re-married if you're not a true widow

 

Do know what's NOT an abomination according to "god?"

 

• slavery (god even gives prices for slaves based on age and gender)
• murder (god kills so many people in the bible and instructs others to kill in "his" name)
• rape (several passages say for men to just take a woman for themselves)
• incest (several instances this is condoned)
• genocide (god routinely wipes out large numbers of people, for example, Noah and the flood)

I just want the same freedom, rights, and protections under the law (both state and federal) that a cis, heterosexual, white male takes for granted.

 

I have no idea why my wanting to treated fairly, to be allowed to be present in society, and not be bullied, threatened, harassed, and/or discriminated against is considered such a "radical" concept.

[Landlord]

There goes the genuine discussion.

[zoogs]

"Most Christians"? I mean, c'mon, man.

 

Responses like this make BRB's initial response make a lot more sense to me.

[NUance]

As someone who is a member of the LBGTQIA community, to read stuff like this...it terrifies me.

 

It terrifies me that there are large numbers of "christians" who want to install their own version of christian sharia law and literally FORCE everyone into adhering to their beliefs.

 

It terrifies me that there seems to be an ever growing portion of the population who are perfectly fine with this kind of discrimination, bigotry, and hatred.

 

It terrifies me that I will soon have nowhere to go for any kind of legal protections.

 

It terrifies me that this kind of bigotry, intolerance, and hatred, is so "normalized" and accepted.

 

It makes me incredibly angry that christian bigots are given free reign to spread such hate in the name of a "god" that doesn't even exist.

 

The Founding Fathers saw the corruption in the Church of England and founded our country with a Constitution and as a Democratic Republic, where religion was purposefully excluded from the public sector.

 

And here we are, in 2016 and the forces of evil, hate, and corruption (most christians) are busy trying to create the type of society they think they want, saying to hell with the Constitution, all because they think it's the LBGTQIA people who are ruining America.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/louisiana-governors-lgbt-rights-order-thrown-judge-44191156

 

This link is about one state, and a Democratic Governor, who tried to protect his state's most vunerable residents and a bigot republican who blocked it.

 

Stuff like this is happening all across this nation.

 

I'm tired of this. I'm tired of dealing with these christian bigots who use one damn line in their book of lies, fairy tales, and fables, to justify the demonization of one small subset of the population.

 

I'm tired of their hypocrisy, I'm tired of their holier-than-thou attitudes, and I'm really tired at constantly having to explain and justify my existence to a group of morons who conveniently ignore their own sin while using their utterly bullcrap beliefs to bully, threaten, discriminate, and hate on me and people are like me.

 

You know what else is considered an abomination according to "god?"

 

• eating pork, shrimp, crab, mussels, clams, lobsters, rabbit (and the list goes on)
• wearing mixed fabric clothing
• shaving your face
• getting re-married if you're not a true widow

 

Do know what's NOT an abomination according to "god?"

 

• slavery (god even gives prices for slaves based on age and gender)
• murder (god kills so many people in the bible and instructs others to kill in "his" name)
• rape (several passages say for men to just take a woman for themselves)
• incest (several instances this is condoned)
• genocide (god routinely wipes out large numbers of people, for example, Noah and the flood)

I just want the same freedom, rights, and protections under the law (both state and federal) that a cis, heterosexual, white male takes for granted.

 

I have no idea why my wanting to treated fairly, to be allowed to be present in society, and not be bullied, threatened, harassed, and/or discriminated against is considered such a "radical" concept.

 

So ... you don't want school vouchers then?

[Enhance]

Chimi, thanks for sharing all of that.

 

When I was a reporter in Lincoln, I remember being absolutely floored listening to some of the people who would walk into the legislature and give their opinions on certain bills. Religious groups seeking public funding while wanting to discriminate against LGBTQ people seeking their help, employers wanting to prevent bills aimed at protecting LGBTQ citizens in the work place, people trying to stop LGBTQ families from fostering kids... Some things that were personally disappointing to witness.

[Landlord]

Anyways, here's a good video primer on the Big Bang for anyone curious.

 

 

[funhusker]

Got a chance to check back in....

 

Sorry guys 😳

[JJ Husker]

 

As someone who is a member of the LBGTQIA community, to read stuff like this...it terrifies me.

 

It terrifies me that there are large numbers of "christians" who want to install their own version of christian sharia law and literally FORCE everyone into adhering to their beliefs.

 

It terrifies me that there seems to be an ever growing portion of the population who are perfectly fine with this kind of discrimination, bigotry, and hatred.

 

It terrifies me that I will soon have nowhere to go for any kind of legal protections.

 

It terrifies me that this kind of bigotry, intolerance, and hatred, is so "normalized" and accepted.

 

It makes me incredibly angry that christian bigots are given free reign to spread such hate in the name of a "god" that doesn't even exist.

 

The Founding Fathers saw the corruption in the Church of England and founded our country with a Constitution and as a Democratic Republic, where religion was purposefully excluded from the public sector.

 

And here we are, in 2016 and the forces of evil, hate, and corruption (most christians) are busy trying to create the type of society they think they want, saying to hell with the Constitution, all because they think it's the LBGTQIA people who are ruining America.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/louisiana-governors-lgbt-rights-order-thrown-judge-44191156

 

This link is about one state, and a Democratic Governor, who tried to protect his state's most vunerable residents and a bigot republican who blocked it.

 

Stuff like this is happening all across this nation.

 

I'm tired of this. I'm tired of dealing with these christian bigots who use one damn line in their book of lies, fairy tales, and fables, to justify the demonization of one small subset of the population.

 

I'm tired of their hypocrisy, I'm tired of their holier-than-thou attitudes, and I'm really tired at constantly having to explain and justify my existence to a group of morons who conveniently ignore their own sin while using their utterly bullcrap beliefs to bully, threaten, discriminate, and hate on me and people are like me.

 

You know what else is considered an abomination according to "god?"

 

 

• eating pork, shrimp, crab, mussels, clams, lobsters, rabbit (and the list goes on)
• wearing mixed fabric clothing
• shaving your face
• getting re-married if you're not a true widow

Do know what's NOT an abomination according to "god?"

 

• slavery (god even gives prices for slaves based on age and gender)
• murder (god kills so many people in the bible and instructs others to kill in "his" name)
• rape (several passages say for men to just take a woman for themselves)
• incest (several instances this is condoned)
• genocide (god routinely wipes out large numbers of people, for example, Noah and the flood)

I just want the same freedom, rights, and protections under the law (both state and federal) that a cis, heterosexual, white male takes for granted.

 

I have no idea why my wanting to treated fairly, to be allowed to be present in society, and not be bullied, threatened, harassed, and/or discriminated against is considered such a "radical" concept.

So ... you don't want school vouchers then?

LMAO......good one.

[JJ Husker]

So, there are bad schools in Louisiana, therefore the whole country should use a voucher system that - in Louisiana - is failing students worse than their original schools?

 

That doesn't make any sense. That seems like a Louisiana problem that Louisiana should fix, not the whole country.

I would agree with this. The federal government should get totally out of it and leave it to the states and local communities. What works in New York city or Washington DC is likely much different than what would work in rural Nebraska etc.

[JJ Husker]

At some point people are going to realize that defunding public schools hurts them, too. At that point it'll be too late, as we'll have a generation of undereducated morons running around.

 

But hey, let's continue to think me first, country second. What could possibly go wrong?

Maybe you haven't noticed.....we already have a couple half generations of undereducated morons running around this country and it has nothing to do with defunding public schools, quite the opposite actually. Public funding has been increased and mostly wasted trying to get these underachievers up to some remedial level of almost acceptability so that the schools can "prove" they did their job. Nevermind that the high achievers have to suffer from being forced to share the same classrooms with these losers.

 

Maybe someday people will learn that funding for schools has relatively little impact on the ability to educate kids compared to the parenting they are subjected to and their socioeconomic status. If I had a nickel for every kid that millions of dollars of funding was never going to help anyway.....

 

We should be teaching most of these students how to be good parents because the other stuff isn't going to matter without it if they don't break the cycle of how they are being raised.

[Landlord]

The federal government should get totally out of it and leave it to the states and local communities. What works in New York city or Washington DC is likely much different than what would work in rural Nebraska etc.

 

 

 

I disagree with this quite strongly. The federal government shouldn't get out of it - they need to build a working model for education based on 21st century thought and abandoning the industrialization/factory line producing style of education that started all of this ages ago.

 

Taking federal oversight out of it results in places like Texas, which not only does it's citizens, particularly those economically disadvantaged, a great and tragic disservice by offering awful education, but also retards the progress of the rest of the country.

[BigRedBuster]

Wow....

[JJ Husker]

 

The federal government should get totally out of it and leave it to the states and local communities. What works in New York city or Washington DC is likely much different than what would work in rural Nebraska etc.

 

 

I disagree with this quite strongly. The federal government shouldn't get out of it - they need to build a working model for education based on 21st century thought and abandoning the industrialization/factory line producing style of education that started all of this ages ago.

 

Taking federal oversight out of it results in places like Texas, which not only does it's citizens, particularly those economically disadvantaged, a great and tragic disservice by offering awful education, but also retards the progress of the rest of the country.

Theoretically I wouldn't disagree with you but can you provide some examples of how the federal government has helped educational progress in this country. Seems all they ever come up with is cookie cutter ideas that may have a beneficial effect for a narrowly defined group but a detrimental effect for most. I guess this is a pretty good description of almost all federal programs IMO. They solve a problem for a small group while creating countless problems for the majority.

 

So you don't think the best decisions can be made by those closest to the people that are affected? That faceless bureaucrats are best suited for setting educational policy equally for say Columbus Nebraska and Detroit Michigan?

[Landlord]

So you don't think the best decisions can be made by those closest to the people that are affected? That faceless bureaucrats are best suited for setting educational policy equally for say Columbus Nebraska and Detroit Michigan?

 

 

I do think that those decision can be made by those closest, but I think it's far too easy for other things to get in the way, and that those closest don't make the best decisions.

 

If we're going to get rid of federal oversight of education, then we need a hell of a lot of reform at the state level to disincentivize state politicians away from sacrificing our children's educations for things like political expediency, wealth building, pandering to corporate interests, etc.