The Environment

[Guy Chamberlin]

12 minutes ago, jaws said:

 

The things we take for granted in this country is unreal. Most of us take the electrical grid and easy access to water for granted. 

 

Maybe Texas will rethink their grid interconnects with the East and West US grids. Also, maybe this will spur some change across the board. 

 

A predictable heat wave in Chicago killed more than 700 people in 1996. Most of them poor and POC. What could have be done? Well it turns out the poorest people in Chicago lived in large complexes equipped with the absolute cheapest air conditioners money could by. They were so inefficient that they shut down the grid on hot days, causing blackouts and deaths and overwhelming the healthcare system.

 

The Clinton administration set a new regulatory standard for air conditioners so that low efficiency ACs would no longer put entire grids at risk. The air conditioner industry didn't really fight it. When George W. Bush took office, they basically rescinded every regulation Clinton passed, just because, and that included minimum efficiency standards for air conditioners.

 

I wish there was an island where everyone who believes unregulated free enterprise lifts all ships could live. Curious to see the government they would form.

 

 

 

 

[teachercd]

35 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I think we've already been through this. Yeah, there were some alarmist predictions that didn't come through....yet.  As you are keen to cite earth science evidence dating back millions of years, you surely know that an estimate being off by decades -- or a century -- doesn't negate the prediction. In the case of melting polar ice, it's been happening considerably faster than most previous prediction models. Look into those, rather than the most alarmist thing a single individual said years ago. 

 

The irony for conservatives is that moving to a green economy supports the supposed bedrock of conservative thinking: more efficient, long term solutions that conserve limited resources and spur new economic development through American innovation. Big Oil may whine, but like Big Auto and General Electric, and 3M and other blueblood American Capitalists, they are moving into renewable energy because it makes business sense. Always did, regardless of climate change. 

 

It's an incredible opportunity. Instead:  Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wants to outlaw cows. 

See, I don't see this issue so much as a liberal/conservative thing as much as I see it as a "I care" and "I don't care" type thing.  I think most people "care" but without doing anything about it.

 

I kept my heat set the same the last 3 days even though they shut down schools to help save power.  I bet me and pretty much everyone else did the same exact thing.  I did not look at my thermostat and think "Take that libs!" just like if I had turned it down to conserve energy I would not have been like "Look at me saving the world, you evil conservatives" 

 

I just think that most people are content in their lives.

 

I bought water friendly shower heads,. Not because I care about water usage but because they looked nice and they were super cheap.  

 

I also piss in the sink a lot of the time, not because I want to save water but because it is convenient.   (And there is a bit of a thrill of seeing if I will get caught)

 

I sometimes burn trash, not so it doesn't end up in a landfill but because it is fun to burn stuff and I have a firepit.  

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

24 minutes ago, teachercd said:

See, I don't see this issue so much as a liberal/conservative thing as much as I see it as a "I care" and "I don't care" type thing.  I think most people "care" but without doing anything about it.

 

I kept my heat set the same the last 3 days even though they shut down schools to help save power.  I bet me and pretty much everyone else did the same exact thing.  I did not look at my thermostat and think "Take that libs!" just like if I had turned it down to conserve energy I would not have been like "Look at me saving the world, you evil conservatives" 

 

I just think that most people are content in their lives.

 

I bought water friendly shower heads,. Not because I care about water usage but because they looked nice and they were super cheap.  

 

I also piss in the sink a lot of the time, not because I want to save water but because it is convenient.   (And there is a bit of a thrill of seeing if I will get caught)

 

I sometimes burn trash, not so it doesn't end up in a landfill but because it is fun to burn stuff and I have a firepit.  

 

 

 

I'm with you on pissing everywhere but the toilet -- as God intended. But that post was specifically about painting environmental issues with a partisan brush. 

 

I'm afraid we have to part ways on environmental shower heads. I'll take the stronger water pressure and the shorter shower. And remember all that water I'm saving by peeing on the neighbor's fence.

[teachercd]

4 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I'm with you on pissing everywhere but the toilet -- as God intended. But that post was specifically about painting environmental issues with a partisan brush. 

 

I'm afraid we have to part ways on environmental shower heads. I'll take the stronger water pressure and the shorter shower. And remember all that water I'm saving by peeing on the neighbor's fence.

I was super worried about the water pressure with those shower heads but it is actually really good.  

[TGHusker]

I saw Bill Gates on 60 Minutes this past weekend. This article talks of some of the things he mentioned as well.

Rich countries should be eating 100% plant based meat - Impossible Burgers, etc. - he of course pushes ideas that he has invested in.

He's talking about harvesting CO2 from the atmosphere and injecting it into cement (becoming a part of the cement manufacturing process), he talks about a new kind of nuclear reactor that he is investing in - one that is cooled not by water but by other materials - making nuclear much safer. He says solar and wind won't replace fossil fuels and he sees safe nuclear as the best option ( I agree with him on this point)

 

So with Gates we have to ask - Do we just follow the money (he pushes ideas that make him $$s)  or does he sees the need and he invests his money to meat (pun intended) the need?

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/feb/16/bill-gates-all-rich-countries-should-move-to-100-s/

 

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/environment/bill-gates-climate-book/

[TGHusker]

10 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

And remember all that water I'm saving by peeing on the neighbor's fence

Ah, you do it too

[RedDenver]

27 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

So with Gates we have to ask - Do we just follow the money (he pushes ideas that make him $$s)  or does he sees the need and he invests his money to meat (pun intended) the need?

I think it's a bit of both. I imagine Gates is like many people who think that because they were successful in one way, they are also experts in other ways (aka survivorship bias), so there's a lot of overconfidence/egotism in there as well.

[TGHusker]

12 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I think it's a bit of both. I imagine Gates is like many people who think that because they were successful in one way, they are also experts in other ways (aka survivorship bias), so there's a lot of overconfidence/egotism in there as well.

I agree.  In the 60 minute interview he said he spent the past year educating himself on environmental issues. I hope he has scientists and other professionals in that field leading him in the investments he makes.  If we step out of our expertise and take control because of our power/money we can cause damage unless we take what we are experts at (making money and investing it  like Gates does) and lend that talent to others who are experts in the environmental issues.

[Archy1221]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I think we've already been through this. Yeah, there were some alarmist predictions that didn't come through....yet.  As you are keen to cite earth science evidence dating back millions of years, you surely know that an estimate being off by decades -- or a century -- doesn't negate the prediction. In the case of melting polar ice, it's been happening considerably faster than most previous prediction models. Look into those, rather than the most alarmist thing a single individual said years ago. 

 

The irony for conservatives is that moving to a green economy supports the supposed bedrock of conservative thinking: more efficient, long term solutions that conserve limited resources and spur new economic development through American innovation. Big Oil may whine, but like Big Auto and General Electric, and 3M and other blueblood American Capitalists, they are moving into renewable energy because it makes business sense. Always did, regardless of climate change. 

 

It's an incredible opportunity. Instead:  Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wants to outlaw cows. 

Maybe they could get things correct a few weeks in advance before asking us to believe their predictions 30-50 years from now.  

 

https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2021-01-20-february-temperature-outlook-2021

 

[RedDenver]

33 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Maybe they could get things correct a few weeks in advance before asking us to believe their predictions 30-50 years from now.  

 

https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2021-01-20-february-temperature-outlook-2021

 

The old strawman of thinking the weather and the climate are the same or at least the same difficulty in predicting. It's hilariously absurd as all you have to do is ask anyone if they're more confident in predicting the weather in 5 days or if the winter will be colder than the summer.

[Archy1221]

16 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

The old strawman of thinking the weather and the climate are the same or at least the same difficulty in predicting. It's hilariously absurd as all you have to do is ask anyone if they're more confident in predicting the weather in 5 days or if the winter will be colder than the summer.

Feel free to wake when the planet is no longer hospitable to life.  

[RedDenver]

4 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Feel free to wake when the planet is no longer hospitable to life.  

Congrats on a reply that has no connection to what I wrote.

[BigRedBuster]

3 hours ago, TGHusker said:

So with Gates we have to ask - Do we just follow the money (he pushes ideas that make him $$s)  or does he sees the need and he invests his money to meat (pun intended) the need?

I'll admit that I'm somewhat of a Bill Gates fan.  Although, I don't agree with every idea he has (like the fake meat crap).  

 

I believe that he loves solving huge major world problems and he has the money to play around with possible solutions.  An example is how in third world countries lack of sewers causes disease and death.  So...he's developing portable bathrooms that decompose the waste sewage immediately making it harmless to humans.  Really cool idea.  Will he make money on it?  I don't know.

 

Now, yes, he invests to make money also.  Who doesn't?  But, I fail to see how the majority of what he does is some negative to society like some people try to make it.

[TGHusker]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

I'll admit that I'm somewhat of a Bill Gates fan.  Although, I don't agree with every idea he has (like the fake meat crap).  

 

I believe that he loves solving huge major world problems and he has the money to play around with possible solutions.  An example is how in third world countries lack of sewers causes disease and death.  So...he's developing portable bathrooms that decompose the waste sewage immediately making it harmless to humans.  Really cool idea.  Will he make money on it?  I don't know.

 

Now, yes, he invests to make money also.  Who doesn't?  But, I fail to see how the majority of what he does is some negative to society like some people try to make it.

I'm glad he spends the money on trying to solve world problems instead of trying to build fake universities and failed casinos ,,, but I digress. 

 

[Archy1221]

13 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

I'm glad he spends the money on trying to solve world problems instead of trying to build fake universities and failed casinos ,,, but I digress. 

 

Ahhhh, the old BUT TRUMP.  I thought you didn’t like whataboutism?