ICE Crackdown

[knapplc]

I've been AFK all day, but has something happened with these recent ICE raids that makes them different than similar raids that've been going on for decades?

 

I know a lot of us are sensitive about all things Trump right now, but the little I've seen about these raids makes them sound pretty normal.

 

Remember that the press is in the business of selling us news, so if they can sensationalize normal things to make us look at their show or paper or website, they will.

[RedDenver]

I've been AFK all day, but has something happened with these recent ICE raids that makes them different than similar raids that've been going on for decades?

 

I know a lot of us are sensitive about all things Trump right now, but the little I've seen about these raids makes them sound pretty normal.

 

Remember that the press is in the business of selling us news, so if they can sensationalize normal things to make us look at their show or paper or website, they will.

This is where I'm at. There's nothing unusual about these ICE raids. Remeber that Obama deported more than 3 million undocumented immigrants, which I think is more than all other presidents combined.

[zoogs]

"3 million deportations" itself may be just a term thrown around sensationally or superficially: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/04/21/lies-damned-lies-and-obamas-deportation-statistics/?utm_term=.c25a8e978697 (Note: I'm not going all-in on Obama's deportation policy.)

 

Somehow, the Obama administration is simultaneously responsible for the highest rate of deportation in 20 years and a 26 percent drop in deportation. What is going on here? As it turns out, changes in immigration law, terminology and classification are causing this confusion.

On the current ICE actions: like you guys, I don't know. U.S. CBP actions taken were in response to the high-profile travel ban EO; in some cases it seemed officials were just trying to follow orders. Likewise, the ICE actions taken recently seem at least potentially (if not directly) in response to an EO that has gotten less play. The Intercept gives it coverage here, from February 9: https://theintercept.com/2017/02/09/trump-administration-prepares-to-execute-vicious-executive-order-on-deportations/

 

Altman is not alone in her grim assessment. In a legal breakdown following the signing of the order, immigration attorney David Leopold argued that Trump’s directive is a loaded gun with millions of immigrants in its crosshairs. “Trump’s plan is a blueprint to implement his campaign promises of mass deportation, and it puts in place the Deportation Force to carry out his plan,” Leopold wrote on Medium. “It’s clear that the executive orders were crafted by the most extreme anti-immigrant zealots in Trump’s orbit.”

I do understand that media is often superficial and trying to sell stories. However, I think do there's reason to resist brushing this story off as merely that. This may be the exact right story that needs to be covered, however tardily.

 

This administration has a vision. It is no mystery to any of us. And they have been attempting to effect their top priorities.

[Danny Bateman]

I'm not an unrealistic ideologue. I realize we're not going to just stop deporting illegal immigrants, nor should we. Like I said, if they've broken the law with a violent crime, they should be kicked out. I may be in the minority, but I don't consider coming here illegally in search of a better life for yourself and your family a crime worth punishing.

 

Especially because undocumented immigrants:

 

* Commit crimes at a lower rate than other residents here

* Pay in to taxes and can't get anything back

* Take jobs Americans largely won't take at wages they don't want

 

I guess where I draw the line is when I read about them targeting a church. Again, the way I read that story (I could be wrong) seems to suggest to me that the Mexicans leaving the church were targeted just for being brown. They had their criminal histories checked on the spot for... what? Possibly being illegal? I'm a white guy, and I could be illegal. Why did they stop the Mexicans? To me, that seems like a stop and frisk, and thus I find it morally bankrupt.

 

If I am wrong in any of this, let me know.

 

I'm personally not going to be quiet about this. If they're going to target community places like churches on only suspicions, I'm going to raise hell. I have lots of friends who are probably undocumented. He promised to deport people and now he is. He's not going to provide a path to citizenship. I think that is worth decrying.

[Apathy]

Entering a country illegally is a crime...period.

 

So now we get to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which ones to turn a blind eye too?

[Moiraine]

A few years ago my eastern European friend forgot her documentation on a road trip from Texas to Arizona. Her bus was stopped at a checkpoint but she's blonde so she just said she was American and they didn't ask her for anything.

[Danny Bateman]

Entering a country illegally is a crime...period.

 

So now we get to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which ones to turn a blind eye too?

 

I've laid out my rationale for why I think it's an idiotic crime.

 

I jaywalk all the time but never get any trouble for it. Should we start cracking down on that, too?

[Moiraine]

Entering a country illegally is a crime...period.

 

So now we get to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which ones to turn a blind eye too?

 

Marijuana is illegal nationally yet people can basically consume it openly in Colorado and other states.

 

So, ya.

[zoogs]

From the Intercept article:

 

In another dramatic sign that officials in Arizona are beginning to move forward with Trump’s domestic enforcement orders, immigration agents in Phoenix arrested Guadalupe García de Rayos on Wednesday. For eight years, the 35-year-old, who has lived in the U.S. since she was a teenager, had regularly checked in with a local ICE office after being arrested in 2008 for using a fake social security card number in order to work. Under the Obama administration, that kind of offense was not prioritized for deportation — that’s no longer the case under President Trump.

It's really about priorities. Where you allocate your (in this case, public) resources. And to what ends.

 

So, again, not that the Obama administration had a perfect approach. I'm not sure what one would be. However, the difference seems stark to me, and I'd much rather move back in the direction we were until recently moving towards.

[Apathy]

 

Entering a country illegally is a crime...period.

 

So now we get to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which ones to turn a blind eye too?

Marijuana is illegal nationally yet people can basically consume it openly in Colorado and other states.

 

So, ya.

That's because in Colorado if you're older than 21, you can legally possess an ounce of weed on your person for recreational use. I'm sure the other 6 states who also allow legalized recreational marijuana usage follow the same guidelines....

 

Anything over an ounce is a no no

 

So, ya

[Landlord]

Entering a country illegally is a crime...period.

 

So now we get to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which ones to turn a blind eye too?

 

 

Ever drink before you were 21?

 

Ever drive before you had a license?

 

Ever illegally stream a movie online, or borrow someone's Netflix login?

 

Ever download music without paying for it?

 

Ever go over the speed limit?

 

Ever pull into the middle of an intersection taking a left, only to wait for the yellow and going through while the light was technically red?

 

Ever turn right into the left lane of a two-lane street?

 

Ever take place in a company March Madness pool?

 

Ever connect to unsecured wifi?

 

Ever not put on your seat belt?

 

Ever peed in an alley?

 

Ever failed to update your drivers license after moving?

 

Ever jaywalk?

[Oade]

LOMS, are you condoning underage drinking, pirating music, driving at unsafe speed, or anything else on that list?

 

Do you not support the enforcement of those laws? Why not support the enforcement of this law?

[ZRod]

 

 

Entering a country illegally is a crime...period.

So now we get to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which ones to turn a blind eye too?

Marijuana is illegal nationally yet people can basically consume it openly in Colorado and other states.

So, ya.

That's because in Colorado if you're older than 21, you can legally possess an ounce of weed on your person for recreational use. I'm sure the other 6 states who also allow legalized recreational marijuana usage follow the same guidelines....

Anything over an ounce is a no no

So, ya

Except it's still a schedule 1 drug and is federally illegal to posses or consume. The Feds could come in at anytime and raid the shops and lock everyone up. That's why they are a cash only buisness, because banks don't want to take the risk of association.

 

So ya...

[knapplc]

LOMS, are you condoning underage drinking, pirating music, driving at unsafe speed, or anything else on that list?

 

Do you not support the enforcement of those laws? Why not support the enforcement of this law?

 

Disingenuous. You know what he's pointing out. Rather than speak to the point, this attempts to deflect it.

[Stumpy1]

I'm not an unrealistic ideologue. I realize we're not going to just stop deporting illegal immigrants, nor should we. Like I said, if they've broken the law with a violent crime, they should be kicked out. I may be in the minority, but I don't consider coming here illegally in search of a better life for yourself and your family a crime worth punishing.

 

Especially because undocumented immigrants:

 

* Commit crimes at a lower rate than other residents here

* Pay in to taxes and can't get anything back

* Take jobs Americans largely won't take at wages they don't want

 

I guess where I draw the line is when I read about them targeting a church. Again, the way I read that story (I could be wrong) seems to suggest to me that the Mexicans leaving the church were targeted just for being brown. They had their criminal histories checked on the spot for... what? Possibly being illegal? I'm a white guy, and I could be illegal. Why did they stop the Mexicans? To me, that seems like a stop and frisk, and thus I find it morally bankrupt.

 

If I am wrong in any of this, let me know.

 

I'm personally not going to be quiet about this. If they're going to target community places like churches on only suspicions, I'm going to raise hell. I have lots of friends who are probably undocumented. He promised to deport people and now he is. He's not going to provide a path to citizenship. I think that is worth decrying.

You are wrong on both these accounts.

 

Undocumented immigrants do not pay taxes and even newly documented immigrants do not pay taxes for a number of years. My Brother-in-law has relation that obtained their papers and went 3 years without paying taxes. The company that they work for got a "tax" break for hiring them. I know a couple of Bosnians that I had worked with that never paid taxes either but were US citizens.

 

My cousin, who works in a section of law enforcement that deals with illegal immigrants has a very different perspective on undocumented immigrants and crimes. He is based out of Phoenix, AZ.