ActualCornHusker Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, BlitzFirst said: Anyone can start a business...but having it make income over years is very precocious. 20% of small businesses fail in their first year, 30% of small business fail in their second year, and 50% of small businesses fail after five years in business. Finally, 70% of small business owners fail in their 10th year in business. But honestly, that doesn't even matter. Saying "look here how a few people made it" doesn't mean that everyone will go out and suddenly be able to make it as well. Yeah I realize there are quite a few extenuating circumstances with my shoe salesman anecdote...but I'm saying a worker in a menial job could make it back then...not just a shoe salesman. My wife's grandfather was a window dresser for a department store in NYC and could provide for his family of 3 during the same time frame. Times have changed and people have a harder time making it now in jobs like those. My outlook like those are formed by just paying attention to how young people are struggling and working for massive corporations for the past 20 years in senior positions and reading lots of books from people much smarter than me with a better handle on politics, religion, and economics. Globalization of manufacturing (the emergence of China, Vietnam, & other countries) and the internet creating more competition are the 2 main factors for the stagnation of wages. "Corporate greed" has little to nothing to do with it... The marketplace is always evolving and people should too. The days of finding a job at a fortune 500 company and working your way up the ladder are largely over. People today if they want to advance their pay and status in their careers need to move companies a lot. By that same token, the days of relying on a company (or public) pension for retirement are largely gone. People need to take their savings and investment for retirement into their own hands. If we want real wage growth, we need even more competition in the marketplace so that companies are competing with each other not only for consumers, but also for the high quality employees. None of that happens with almost all of the policies the Democrats propose, especially today's democratic party which is creeping closer and closer to totalitarianism 1 Link to comment
teachercd Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Small businesses have it tough but a lot of times small business owners make it hard on themselves. You get an office when you could work from home (save cash) You hire people when you can just do more work You over value your product/business you are selling/offering You don't know how to market. I have a friend, his father in law bought a small machine shop (years ago), him and his buddy bought it. The first thing he did when he bought was let everyone go...his buddy looked at him and said "What the hell, who is going to do the work?" and he looked back at him and said "We are" Now they were not paying anyone but themselves...and it worked! Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, BlitzFirst said: Doesn't hold water. Wage stagnation has been happening since the 1970's (mid to late 1970's) and competition with China and other countries in that area didn't happen until the 1990's. The real culprit is labor market concentration...whicih is few competitors in different markets. This is caused by large corporations buying up swaths of the market...aka a trust. We're supposed to have antitrust laws followed in this country...but as evident by Time Warner expansion in the recent past, that's laughable. Antitrust laws are supposed to make it so Joe Smith can start a cable company tomorrow and compete...but that's not possible any longer due to the size and profits of mega corporations. Unions should allow collective bargaining to battle this...but they're unpopular now...and employers can retaliate against workers and no one does anything about it. Government is failing the common worker in order to keep the large companies rich. There is evidence for what I'm talking about online...just do a few searches and you'll see that economists are starting to get a handle on what is happening and has happened in the past 30-40 years finally. I actually totally agree on the bolded paragraph, but the cause and solution to that is where we disagree. You want government to step in and solve the problem. I see that government helped create the problem you're diagnosing (politicians being lobbied & bribed to support bills and regulations that hurt small business and allow big companies to take over greater market share), and I'd rather see government step back, loosen its stranglehold of over-regulation of small businesses (including minimum wage laws) to allow more competitors to enter the marketplace. Link to comment
RedDenver Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 44 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: I actually totally agree on the bolded paragraph, but the cause and solution to that is where we disagree. You want government to step in and solve the problem. I see that government helped create the problem you're diagnosing (politicians being lobbied & bribed to support bills and regulations that hurt small business and allow big companies to take over greater market share), and I'd rather see government step back, loosen its stranglehold of over-regulation of small businesses (including minimum wage laws) to allow more competitors to enter the marketplace. Except that government has been loosening regulations for decades now and it's not increasing competition. In fact monopolies are more powerful now than 40 years ago, which decreases competition. The idea that reducing regulations will increase competition has been pretty thoroughly debunked these past 40 years. IMO one of the issues is that people confuse "free" markets and "competitive" markets. Free markets don't have oversight and lead to monopolies and decreased competition. Competitive markets have oversight to keep them competitive. Historically you can look back at the late 1800's for how free markets don't work, and then Teddy Roosevelt's admin for how oversight leads back to competitive markets. 1 1 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, RedDenver said: Except that government has been loosening regulations for decades now and it's not increasing competition. In fact monopolies are more powerful now than 40 years ago, which decreases competition. The idea that reducing regulations will increase competition has been pretty thoroughly debunked these past 40 years. IMO one of the issues is that people confuse "free" markets and "competitive" markets. Free markets don't have oversight and lead to monopolies and decreased competition. Competitive markets have oversight to keep them competitive. Historically you can look back at the late 1800's for how free markets don't work, and then Teddy Roosevelt's admin for how oversight leads back to competitive markets. And Joe Biden is center-right... I've heard it all from you LOL 1 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 47 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: And Joe Biden is center-right... I've heard it all from you LOL That doesn't address anything I posted. 1 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, RedDenver said: That doesn't address anything I posted. Intentionally. Because if you view Biden as center-right, even in his pre-alzheimer's form that he is in currently, then you and I live in different dimensions entirely Link to comment
RedDenver Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: Intentionally. Because if you view Biden as center-right, even in his pre-alzheimer's form that he is in currently, then you and I live in different dimensions entirely Way to double down on the use a strawman and then run away debate strategy. 2 1 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, RedDenver said: Way to double down on the use a strawman and then run away debate strategy. You literally just last week (pretty sure it was you - if not I apologize) said that Joe Biden is a center-right candidate, did you not? Link to comment
RedDenver Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, ActualCornHusker said: You literally just last week (pretty sure it was you - if not I apologize) said that Joe Biden is a center-right candidate, did you not? Triple downing on the strawman. Or do you not know what a strawman is? 1 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, RedDenver said: Triple downing on the strawman. Or do you not know what a strawman is? Strawman: misrepresenting what someone else said to make a point. So this isn't you?... On 3/11/2020 at 7:02 PM, RedDenver said: I'd say my choices are a center-right "moderate" or right-wing moron. Both will punch us in the face, just one is more vicious than the other. And you can argue all you want that Biden is some sort of progressive, but he's not. 1 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 minute ago, ActualCornHusker said: Strawman: misrepresenting what someone else said to make a point. So this isn't you?... You continue to avoid the post we were debating. I'll put it here to help you out: 1 hour ago, RedDenver said: Except that government has been loosening regulations for decades now and it's not increasing competition. In fact monopolies are more powerful now than 40 years ago, which decreases competition. The idea that reducing regulations will increase competition has been pretty thoroughly debunked these past 40 years. IMO one of the issues is that people confuse "free" markets and "competitive" markets. Free markets don't have oversight and lead to monopolies and decreased competition. Competitive markets have oversight to keep them competitive. Historically you can look back at the late 1800's for how free markets don't work, and then Teddy Roosevelt's admin for how oversight leads back to competitive markets. 1 Link to comment
Landlord Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I'm in the middle of this argument holding contempt for runaway corporatism and greed but also firmly still believing opportunities are just as much out there as they ever have been, but just a few thoughts this direction specifically: 3 hours ago, BlitzFirst said: 20% of small businesses fail in their first year, 30% of small business fail in their second year, and 50% of small businesses fail after five years in business. Finally, 70% of small business owners fail in their 10th year in business. A small business that lasts 10 years is not a failure imo. That's pretty damn good work, and whoever that person is is probably doing pretty well for themselves on average. 3 hours ago, BlitzFirst said: But honestly, that doesn't even matter. Saying "look here how a few people made it" doesn't mean that everyone will go out and suddenly be able to make it as well. That's true, but that's always been true. Nothing has changed in that regard imo. 3 hours ago, BlitzFirst said: Yeah I realize there are quite a few extenuating circumstances with my shoe salesman anecdote...but I'm saying a worker in a menial job could make it back then...not just a shoe salesman. My wife's grandfather was a window dresser for a department store in NYC and could provide for his family of 3 during the same time frame. Times have changed and people have a harder time making it now in jobs like those. People absolutely have a harder time making it now in jobs like those. But those same people can do uber, lyft, postmates, task rabbit, amazon reselling, youtube, and SO many more things that have a very low barrier to entry. I've got a number of friends who are primarily actors (trying to be full-time) who make $35 an hour + doing taskrabbit. Times do change, as you said, and so do opportunities. Can't get left behind, it's up to all of us to adapt and evolve. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Well, like I have said to my Trump supporter friends. If you don't want Biden as President, you shouldn't have nominated the biggest moron ever to hold the office. I'll be voting for Biden. Republicans have left me no other option. 3 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, RedDenver said: You continue to avoid the post we were debating. I'll put it here to help you out: And it seems you've missed the point, which is... If you believe Biden is center-right, and you believe that there are LESS regulations today than 40 years ago.... Then we don't live in the same dimension... There are significant barriers to entry for new entrepreneurs because federal, local, and state lawmakers have had their pockets lined in order for them to pass such laws that act as barriers for large companies' potential future competition... 1 Link to comment
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