The Democrat Utopia

[teachercd]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

I'd strongly oppose a GPA-based scheme. I could maybe get behind a pass/fail scheme, but grades are a terrible metric for anything other than whatever each prof values in a given

 

Yeah but academic scholarships are essentially just that.

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

I guess we should instead ask for the Americans who in years past went to college cheaply to pay us all back for the subsidies that allowed college to be far less expensive than today.

 

Nobody is making anyone go to college. If it was a debt that they thought would be too great to repay, they shouldn't have applied and taken the loan.

 

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

Or we could understand that educating out citizens is a benefit to all of us and that it's in our collective best interest to have more education and not bankrupt people for trying to achieve it.

 

I think we can understand all that, and still expect people to repay loans that they decided to take out.

[teachercd]

I am all for free school but if you took out a loan, pay it back.

[RedDenver]

27 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

What are you going to do fir the kid that worked his a$$ off to pay for college with out loans?

It's definitely a difficult question. We could have avoided this by subsidizing college to keep expenses down like the Baby Boomers enjoyed, but we didn't so here we are. Personally, I'd fine with reimbursing everyone. Or doing a proportional reimbursement based on number of years since graduation or something like that. I'm open to suggestions, but I think throwing our hands up and saying everyone who had to take out loans for college are screwed is a terrible choice as it's going to affect our economy for decades (not that that's what you are suggesting).

 

8 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

Nobody is making anyone go to college. If it was a debt that they thought would be too great to repay, they shouldn't have applied and taken the loan.

So you're advocating for only those rich enough to be college educated since the alternative to taking the loan is to not afford college. I strongly disagree.

 

8 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

I think we can understand all that, and still expect people to repay loans that they decided to take out.

I don't think you actually understand that education is important to society as a whole given your previous statement.

[Lorewarn]

35 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

What are you going to do fir the kid that worked his a$$ off to pay for college with out loans?

 

Say good job.

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

Nobody forced any of these people to go to college, or take out student loans. Most of us can agree that a college education is ridiculously expensive (if not a waste of time with a lot of degrees), but they still agreed to take out and repay the loan amount. This isn't hard. Pay it back. It's political pandering, and nothing more.

 

I mean, the spirit of that isn't true in a lot of cases. 

 

I chose to go to college and take out a lot in loans to be able to (even at a super cheap school). But my choice was really heavily impacted by pressure and expectations and shame from family, my teachers and community. I also had had zero time to really be able to ponder what I really wanted in life, or who I wanted to be. Now I'm financially imprisoned for pretty much forever. 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Just now, RedDenver said:

It's definitely a difficult question. We could have avoided this by subsidizing college to keep expenses down like the Baby Boomers enjoyed, but we didn't so here we are. Personally, I'd fine with reimbursing everyone. Or doing a proportional reimbursement based on number of years since graduation or something like that. I'm open to suggestions, but I think throwing our hands up and saying everyone who had to take out loans for college are screwed is a terrible choice as it's going to affect our economy for decades (not that that's what you are suggesting).

 

So you're advocating for only those rich enough to be college educated since the alternative to taking the loan is to not afford college. I strongly disagree.

 

I don't think you actually understand that education is important to society as a whole given your previous statement.

 

Just now, RedDenver said:

It's definitely a difficult question. We could have avoided this by subsidizing college to keep expenses down like the Baby Boomers enjoyed, but we didn't so here we are. Personally, I'd fine with reimbursing everyone. Or doing a proportional reimbursement based on number of years since graduation or something like that. I'm open to suggestions, but I think throwing our hands up and saying everyone who had to take out loans for college are screwed is a terrible choice as it's going to affect our economy for decades (not that that's what you are suggesting).

 

So you're advocating for only those rich enough to be college educated since the alternative to taking the loan is to not afford college. I strongly disagree.

 

I don't think you actually understand that education is important to society as a whole given your previous statement.

 

I agree, as I clearly stated, that college is way too expensive and should be more affordable. We agree. Correct it, if possible, going forward. But forgive loans that people willingly agreed to take out? Doesn't make any sense to me.

[B.B. Hemingway]

Just now, Lorewarn said:

 

Say good job.

 

 

 

 

I mean, the spirit of that isn't true in a lot of cases. 

 

I chose to go to college and take out a lot in loans to be able to (even at a super cheap school). But my choice was really heavily impacted by pressure and expectations and shame from family, my teachers and community. I also had had zero time to really be able to ponder what I really wanted in life, or who I wanted to be. Now I'm financially imprisoned for pretty much forever. 

 

I can sympathize with you getting bad advice from those close to you, but not to the point of wanting to help you and millions of others pay back their loans. Where does that stop? Going around and financially correcting everyone's bad choices? Mortgages? Car loans? Why not, right?

[Archy1221]

3 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I never have understood or agreed with the whole "forgive all the student loans" idea.

 

 

Not sure why someone thought your post was funny, but I agree with you 100%.  

[Archy1221]

2 hours ago, RedDenver said:

I guess we should instead ask for the Americans who in years past went to college cheaply to pay us all back for the subsidies that allowed college to be far less expensive than today.

 

Or we could understand that educating out citizens is a benefit to all of us and that it's in our collective best interest to have more education and not bankrupt people for trying to achieve it.

Why do you believe it bankrupts someone to pay for college?   It’s a personal choice for someone to choose a $50,000 a year college option instead of the state school option that in many cases is less than than half that (living expenses included).  

[RedDenver]

6 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

I agree, as I clearly stated, that college is way too expensive and should be more affordable. We agree. Correct it, if possible, going forward. But forgive loans that people willingly agreed to take out? Doesn't make any sense to me.

There's lots of things people willingly do that we as a society value and therefore help them out. Like farmers getting crop insurance or business owners getting payouts to survive the pandemic. I mean, they didn't have to be farmers or business owners. We could play this game with lots of things, but it comes down to whether we value them as a society. Forgiving student debt and subsidizing college would greatly help us as a society, but I suspect we'll do nothing and the economy will suffer both from those struggling financially and the long term affects of less people going to college.

[B.B. Hemingway]

10 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

There's lots of things people willingly do that we as a society value and therefore help them out. Like farmers getting crop insurance or business owners getting payouts to survive the pandemic. I mean, they didn't have to be farmers or business owners. We could play this game with lots of things, but it comes down to whether we value them as a society. Forgiving student debt and subsidizing college would greatly help us as a society, but I suspect we'll do nothing and the economy will suffer both from those struggling financially and the long term affects of less people going to college.

 

As someone raised on a farm, I can tell you that crop insurances, at least the one's I'm aware of, are paid for (premiums) by the farmer. That's how  insurance policies work. As for the pandemic pay outs, I mean, the government (local and federal) was the one's not allowing them to conduct business in a lot of instances. Thankfully, my business was largely unaffected by the pandemic and it wasn't a concern for me.

 

To be clear, less people should go to college, and more should learn a trade. Less Communications majors. More plumbers and electrians. 

[RedDenver]

8 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Why do you believe it bankrupts someone to pay for college?   It’s a personal choice for someone to choose a $50,000 a year college option instead of the state school option that in many cases is less than than half that (living expenses included).  

Looking at the local state school: currently $31,034/year to attend CU-Boulder and the estimated 4 year cost of attending is $124,136. That's for in-state costs. Out-of-state costs are estimated to be $240,392.

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

As someone raised on a farm, I can tell you that crop insurances, at least the one's I'm aware of, are paid for (premiums) by the farmer. That's how  insurance policies work. As for the pandemic pay outs, I mean, the government (local and federal) was the one's not allowing them to conduct business in a lot of instances.

 

To be clear, less people should go to college, and more should learn a trade. Less Communications majors. More plumbers and electrians. 

Crop Insurance: A Good Deal for Taxpayers?

Quote

Farmers must pay for crop insurance, but they pay only a portion of the amount needed to cover insured losses. 

 

Quote

Currently, farmers pay about 41 percent of the amount needed to cover insured losses. This large subsidy means that most farmers will get substantially more back from the program than they pay into it.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Just now, RedDenver said:

Crop Insurance: A Good Deal for Taxpayers?

 

 

 

Yep. I am aware of how it works. 

[BigRedBuster]

35 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

It's definitely a difficult question. We could have avoided this by subsidizing college to keep expenses down like the Baby Boomers enjoyed, but we didn't so here we are.

You’re preaching to the choir on finding. I gave a presentation one time on the subject to the lieutenant governor on the subject.  
 

But, I know multiple situations where someone didn’t give a s#!t and racked up debt while another kid worked their a$$ off having jobs and had very little. 
 

I just don’t agree with universally canceling debt.  
 

when someone graduates from HS, you’re an adult. You need to be making good decisions and those decisions gave consequences.