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Pedro G

Talent Vs. Developement

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What do you think of Wisconsin’s success in recruiting? They seem to always be ranked outside of the top 25, yet that team last year was very good. The Corn seems to always be ahead of them in the recruiting rankings. The only thing I saw that was slightly missing in WI, was speed on the edge against OSU’s speedy offense. And they had an inconsistent QB. Yet they handled Miami, and we know the Hurricanes were not slow. So I see a good argument on both sides of Husker recruiting. 

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They don’t recruit in top 10, they will never win a national championship. Osborne recruited great for his system. Recruited no where near a modern day Alabama or even Ohio St. Surprised Schlessinger was a scholarship guy, even though he said he wasn’t recruited hard by anyone. 

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1 hour ago, Pedro G said:

What do you think of Wisconsin’s success in recruiting? They seem to always be ranked outside of the top 25, yet that team last year was very good. The Corn seems to always be ahead of them in the recruiting rankings. The only thing I saw that was slightly missing in WI, was speed on the edge against OSU’s speedy offense. And they had an inconsistent QB. Yet they handled Miami, and we know the Hurricanes were not slow. So I see a good argument on both sides of Husker recruiting. 

How many national championships do they have? 

1 hour ago, Snowbird said:

They don’t recruit in top 10, they will never win a national championship. Osborne recruited great for his system. Recruited no where near a modern day Alabama or even Ohio St. Surprised Schlessinger was a scholarship guy, even though he said he wasn’t recruited hard by anyone. 

Well he recruited top ten talent so actually yes yes he did recruit near their level...

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4 minutes ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

 

Well he recruited top ten talent so actually yes yes he did recruit near their level...

It was like Snowbird refused to accept any of the posts that showed how well Osborne recruited leading up to his national championships, not to mention how well his classes were in the 80’s.  Can’t help someone who won’t accept the figures when presented to him. 

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10 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

It was like Snowbird refused to accept any of the posts that showed how well Osborne recruited leading up to his national championships, not to mention how well his classes were in the 80’s.  Can’t help someone who won’t accept the figures when presented to him. 

Osborne recruited well and frost will get up to that 10-15 level consistently as well once the wins start rolling in. It’s a false narrative you can’t recruit to Nebraska said out loud by one idiot and it got regurgitated by enough uninformed people that the general population started believing it 

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I never said he didnt recruit great classes. But if you take what you are saying, Wisconsin, Iowa should be awful every year? Also, I did See your “facts” and if you average those classes they aren’t averaging top 10? They would be around 15 in those 4 classes on average? 

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Also I disagree that Wisconsin can’t or won’t win a national title at some point. They have had some great teams- but sometimes it takes a few lucky bounces and they didn’t string it together in one season. But they have taken down Ohio state who is as talented as anyone. Get to the playoff and anyone can win. Sure Alabama’s odds of winning are better, they have more margin for error but to say Wisconsin can’t is stupid 

 

i will say their window just got tighter with frost and NU on the rise. They should have capitalized in the last 15 years of NU sucking. As frost said” get your shots this year” cause it’s gonna get tougher year by year 

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Also, how can lemming be the most respected recruiting guru when he doesn’t even have class ranks 3/4 of the 90s? I mean The only site you can go off is Wallace’s? 

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18 minutes ago, Snowbird said:

I never said he didnt recruit great classes. But if you take what you are saying, Wisconsin, Iowa should be awful every year? Also, I did See your “facts” and if you average those classes they aren’t averaging top 10? They would be around 15 in those 4 classes on average? 

I have also said that development matters.  Again Talent and Development are not exclusive. Development is where Wisconsin (I’m not putting Iowa in the same level) excels, and now they are getting stud skill recruits to go with their linemen.  Wisconsin also hasn’t been able to beat Ohio State and Penn State in recent years, due to a talent deficit in some positions. 

 

Regarding the rankings that I showed earlier in the thread, the one outlier class (28th) is going to pull down the other classes if you look at averages. It would be like having 3 #5 ranked classes, with one #45 ranked class.  You would say their average class rank is #20, even though 3 of the classes were among the best in the country.  That’s the flaw in using average instead of another statistical measure. 

 

You tried to say the 90s title teams weren’t built on top 10 talent, and many posts showed that they were. There were 4 years of classes in the top 10, and another in the top 20. I was at UNL during the mid 90s. I saw the abundance of talent.

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As I said Before you must go off of Wallace’s perspective because he is the only one who ranked every year? The 4 classes before the national championship is as follows. 10, 28, 14, 18. Which averages out to roughly 18 in the country. 

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23 minutes ago, Snowbird said:

As I said Before you must go off of Wallace’s perspective because he is the only one who ranked every year? The 4 classes before the national championship is as follows. 10, 28, 14, 18. Which averages out to roughly 18 in the country. 

So he had a top 10 class? Look at who wins the national championship every year....they have highly ranked classes with elite coaches that can develop the talent. TO was a phenomenal coach of Xs and Os, great recruiter and one of the best developers of talent the game has ever seen. He had plenty of 4 and 5 star talent on his roster consistently that was supplemented with 4th and 5th year seniors that walked on. 

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48 minutes ago, Snowbird said:

As I said Before you must go off of Wallace’s perspective because he is the only one who ranked every year? The 4 classes before the national championship is as follows. 10, 28, 14, 18. Which averages out to roughly 18 in the country. 

Fair to say as good as Nebraska was they were better at spotting talent then whatever recruiting services your quoting? 

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1 hour ago, Huskers93-97 said:

Fair to say as good as Nebraska was they were better at spotting talent then whatever recruiting services your quoting? 

They still had a top 10 class....regardless TO recruited at an elite level with players that perfectly fit his scheme and developed 200 plus players every year. He knew what he was doing 

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3 hours ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

They still had a top 10 class....regardless TO recruited at an elite level with players that perfectly fit his scheme and developed 200 plus players every year. He knew what he was doing 

Hey Hedley, I agree with what you are saying here. Can you please expand more on your reply to my last comment? 

 

As I said, Wisconsin has done wonders with recruiting classes that have been outside of the top 25. But with that said, they came up a little bit short — but not by a lot as you saw they were fast enough against Miami — with a little less speed on the edge against OSU. Wisconsin is not slow on defense but not quite fast enough against that explosive OSU offense.

 

With that slight disadvantage and an inconsistent QB who had a not-so-good game against OSU, Wisconsin only lost by one touchdown and had the last possession I believe.

 

As long as the Badgers continue the same path in recruiting but add a little more speed on the outside on defense, they could make it some year to the final four. Plus, they have a hot QB commitment who will probably be better than Hornibrook. 

 

To me Frost’s recruiting is somewhat like Osborne’s, except online recruiting has changed the game some. I have confidence that Frost is only offering very talented prospects who fit his system. And it’s a mixture of three stars, four stars and a few fives. 

 

So because in recruiting it’s first come and first serve, there will be years where Frost will get more three stars than fours, as the three stars commit first. Another year that could reverse. So, for example, one year we could have an 18th ranking and another year it could be 7th. But I have confidence that either class would have great talent. Sorry for the long reply. 

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I agree Osborne great at everything you said. I’m just saying if you think Nebraska is going to consistently get top 10 classes I dont think that’s happening. 

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9 minutes ago, Snowbird said:

I agree Osborne great at everything you said. I’m just saying if you think Nebraska is going to consistently get top 10 classes I dont think that’s happening. 

I think it’s impossible to be top 10 every year if you run a clean program. Some classes are going to be too small to be top 10 just by the numbers. But if your like the SEC and don’t honor scholarships and kick kids out so you can bring in 30 every year then your recruiting numbers will look sweet 

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2 hours ago, Pedro G said:

Hey Hedley, I agree with what you are saying here. Can you please expand more on your reply to my last comment? 

 

As I said, Wisconsin has done wonders with recruiting classes that have been outside of the top 25. But with that said, they came up a little bit short — but not by a lot as you saw they were fast enough against Miami — with a little less speed on the edge against OSU. Wisconsin is not slow on defense but not quite fast enough against that explosive OSU offense.

 

With that slight disadvantage and an inconsistent QB who had a not-so-good game against OSU, Wisconsin only lost by one touchdown and had the last possession I believe.

 

As long as the Badgers continue the same path in recruiting but add a little more speed on the outside on defense, they could make it some year to the final four. Plus, they have a hot QB commitment who will probably be better than Hornibrook. 

 

To me Frost’s recruiting is somewhat like Osborne’s, except online recruiting has changed the game some. I have confidence that Frost is only offering very talented prospects who fit his system. And it’s a mixture of three stars, four stars and a few fives. 

 

So because in recruiting it’s first come and first serve, there will be years where Frost will get more three stars than fours, as the three stars commit first. Another year that could reverse. So, for example, one year we could have an 18th ranking and another year it could be 7th. But I have confidence that either class would have great talent. Sorry for the long reply. 

Oh I agree that Wisc is/was close. Last years team simply needed an elite NFL caliber QB in my opinion as Hornibrook isnt special at all. I bet if Wisc had a top 10 class every 4 years at minimum they would have made the playoffs by now based on how close they have been. 

 

I'm not saying a team cant be really damn good and not snag a top 10 class. Im just saying you wont be bringing home the national championship trophy based on statistics. I hope a few teams tip the apple cart but it hasn't happened for a very long time. 

 

I do believe Frost will get us to signing top 10 classes here and there and be in the teens the other years. That is plenty of raw talent that Duval and now Ellis can mold into machines. 

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11 hours ago, Snowbird said:

I never said he didnt recruit great classes. But if you take what you are saying, Wisconsin, Iowa should be awful every year? Also, I did See your “facts” and if you average those classes they aren’t averaging top 10? They would be around 15 in those 4 classes on average? 

 

Um....

 

23 hours ago, Snowbird said:

The formula to win at Nebraska is not recruiting top 10 recruiting classes. It wasn’t when Osborne was here and it won’t be when Frost is here. He will get great recruiting classes and add 20 walk ons a year. In 5 walk on classes you hope to get 2/3 kids who become studs for you, that helps your recruiting class each year. Once they establish themselves maybe they will routinely recruit in the top 10 but I don’t see it happening for some time. 

 

21 hours ago, Snowbird said:

Going on the site you wanted? We can argue about the rankings in 1986 all day. If you talk to Osborne and or frost they will tell you those classes aren’t top 15. 

 

20 hours ago, Snowbird said:

What I am saying is it is easy to go back and rank players after it’s done? Look at the starters on the 94 team. Besides maybe Peter and Frazier, Phillips where are most of those guys being ranked? Is it just a miracle that the players in 80s and 90s from Nebraska would have all been ranked as 4 Star kids and now they are 3s? Aaron Taylor prime example on Big10 network yesterday, had 3 offers? He would not be ranked today? Look at the starters on 94 team many more 3 stars/ not ranked than 4 and 5 star players 

 

20 hours ago, Snowbird said:

You have to go by individual players if you are talking development and recruiting specific players. Corey Schlesinger was a walk on with 0 offers he would be a prime example of not ranked. Weigert had 1 offer. 3 star kid or 2 star in today’s rankings. 

 

13 hours ago, Snowbird said:

They don’t recruit in top 10, they will never win a national championship. Osborne recruited great for his system. Recruited no where near a modern day Alabama or even Ohio St. Surprised Schlessinger was a scholarship guy, even though he said he wasn’t recruited hard by anyone. 

 

 

What are these, then? 

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11 hours ago, Snowbird said:

I never said he didnt recruit great classes. But if you take what you are saying, Wisconsin, Iowa should be awful every year? Also, I did See your “facts” and if you average those classes they aren’t averaging top 10? They would be around 15 in those 4 classes on average? 

 

There is a difference between awful, average, good, and elite. Wisconsin and Iowa can recruit their typical classes and be average and/or good. However, to be elite you need to have some top 10 classes and great coaching. Elite teams win National Championships. 

 

When talking about TO, we need to realize that college football is a lot different now than it was in the 80s and 90s. 

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43 minutes ago, jaws said:

When talking about TO, we need to realize that college football is a lot different now than it was in the 80s and 90s. 

It's also important to note Tom Osborne was undoubtedly the single best coach in the country during the national title run. I think this gets sort of lost in the shuffle at times. If Scott (and, by extension, we the fans) are ever fortunate enough to win another national title, I believe it will be because he is the best coach in the country and it will take a coach of that caliber to win it all again at Nebraska.

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13 minutes ago, Enhance said:

It's also important to note Tom Osborne was undoubtedly the single best coach in the country during the national title run. I think this gets sort of lost in the shuffle at times. If Scott (and, by extension, we the fans) are ever fortunate enough to win another national title, I believe it will be because he is the best coach in the country and it will take a coach of that caliber to win it all again at Nebraska.

Good thing we already know he's one of the best:

 

Awards
AAC Coach of the Year Award
AFCA Coach of the Year Award
Associated Press College Football Coach of the Year Award
Eddie Robinson Coach of the Year Award
FCA Coach of the Year Award
Home Depot Coach of the Year Award
Paul "Bear" Bryant Award
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49 minutes ago, Enhance said:

It's also important to note Tom Osborne was undoubtedly the single best coach in the country during the national title run. I think this gets sort of lost in the shuffle at times. If Scott (and, by extension, we the fans) are ever fortunate enough to win another national title, I believe it will be because he is the best coach in the country and it will take a coach of that caliber to win it all again at Nebraska.

Very good point. Also why I think the narrative that you cant recruit to Nebraska is false. Kids follow great leaders and winners. You win and the kids will come. Why are saban and meyer great recruiters? Because they are great leaders and they win and people are drawn to that. Meyer and Saban could go anywhere and recruit because they will win. Frost is a great leader- if and when the wins start piling up. Recruiting will get very easy.

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I was Joking when I said That Wisconsin can’t win without a top ten class. I was being “sarcastic”. It is laughable to think Wisconsin can’t win a national title. They went 12-1 last year. They are very close. To suggest different is idiotic. 

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5 minutes ago, Snowbird said:

I was Joking when I said That Wisconsin can’t win without a top ten class. I was being “sarcastic”. It is laughable to think Wisconsin can’t win a national title. They went 12-1 last year. They are very close. To suggest different is idiotic. 

Have they won without a top ten class? When they do you can come and tell us all we were wrong. Until then the numbers say otherwise....

So they were an elite recruiting class away from going to the college football playoffs and competing for a national championship is what you are saying right?

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23 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

Very good point. Also why I think the narrative that you cant recruit to Nebraska is false. Kids follow great leaders and winners. You win and the kids will come. Why are saban and meyer great recruiters? Because they are great leaders and they win and people are drawn to that. Meyer and Saban could go anywhere and recruit because they will win. Frost is a great leader- if and when the wins start piling up. Recruiting will get very easy.

I believe there's a lot of truth to this. Personally, I don't believe we'll ever be a consistent Top 5 recruiter, but on-field success (and further growth of the Scott Frost/Nebraska brand) could easily make us a consistent Top 15 recruiter, in my opinion.

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8 minutes ago, Enhance said:

I believe there's a lot of truth to this. Personally, I don't believe we'll ever be a consistent Top 5 recruiter, but on-field success (and further growth of the Scott Frost/Nebraska brand) could easily make us a consistent Top 15 recruiter, in my opinion.

We just need to recruit in the teens with an occasional elite top 10 class, trick is overachieving with these 20's and teens classes and getting yourself positioned to move up a notch. We are more than capable of it with Frost at the helm 

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All 4 UCF players drafted this year were 3* players with few big offers. Milton was a 3* and racked up ridiculous stats as a So. RBs were 3* and played very efficient as well. 

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41 minutes ago, Snowbird said:

I was Joking when I said That Wisconsin can’t win without a top ten class. I was being “sarcastic”. It is laughable to think Wisconsin can’t win a national title. They went 12-1 last year. They are very close. To suggest different is idiotic. 

I tend to agree its not that crazy of an idea Wisconsin is close. Their only loss all season was to ohio state by 6 in the big ten championship game. 7 points away from being in the playoff. Once there who knows what could happen. QB was their downfall. What if the chips fell and they had russell wilson last year. I think they have a real shot in the playoff. 

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1 hour ago, Huskers93-97 said:

I tend to agree its not that crazy of an idea Wisconsin is close. Their only loss all season was to ohio state by 6 in the big ten championship game. 7 points away from being in the playoff. Once there who knows what could happen. QB was their downfall. What if the chips fell and they had russell wilson last year. I think they have a real shot in the playoff. 

See the thing is everyone is using if they had this or that etc but they didnt do those things and all sorts of data suggests you need a top 10 recruiting class to win the trophy. Lots of teams dont have top 10 recruiting classes and do very very good. They dont take home nattys though 

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1 hour ago, BIG ERN said:

All 4 UCF players drafted this year were 3* players with few big offers. Milton was a 3* and racked up ridiculous stats as a So. RBs were 3* and played very efficient as well. 

How much 4 and 5 star talent is found in the group of 5 schools? Also statistically you are going to see more 3 star players drafted in totality as there are simply a crap load of them compared to 4 and 5 star players 

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11 minutes ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

How much 4 and 5 star talent is found in the group of 5 schools? Also statistically you are going to see more 3 star players drafted in totality as there are simply a crap load of them compared to 4 and 5 star players 


There are 33 5* and 335 4* currently per 247....I'm more so about the offers and most those kids weren't sniffing the big schools. 

 

Ex. Vincent Valentine was a 3* but had offers from Bama, Auburn, Florida, Michigan Oklahoma. To me that's a 4* player. Same with Henrich this year with offers from Florida, ND, Oklahoma, LSU, Oregon. 

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3 minutes ago, BIG ERN said:


There are 33 5* and 335 4* currently per 247....I'm more so about the offers and most those kids weren't sniffing the big schools. 

 

Ex. Vincent Valentine was a 3* but had offers from Bama, Auburn, Florida, Michigan Oklahoma. To me that's a 4* player. Same with Henrich this year with offers from Florida, ND, Oklahoma, LSU, Oregon. 

How many 3 stars does 247 have? 

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3 minutes ago, BIG ERN said:


There are 33 5* and 335 4* currently per 247....I'm more so about the offers and most those kids weren't sniffing the big schools. 

 

Ex. Vincent Valentine was a 3* but had offers from Bama, Auburn, Florida, Michigan Oklahoma. To me that's a 4* player. Same with Henrich this year with offers from Florida, ND, Oklahoma, LSU, Oregon. 

 

Henrich is criminally underrated, specifically by Rivals. 

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3 hours ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

See the thing is everyone is using if they had this or that etc but they didnt do those things and all sorts of data suggests you need a top 10 recruiting class to win the trophy. Lots of teams dont have top 10 recruiting classes and do very very good. They dont take home nattys though 

But didnt it take Osborne 22 years or so to put it all together. Maybe Wisconsin is on the same path but on year 15 or year 20. Thats all I am saying. I will say Nebraska over that 22 years was a few ball bounces away from numerous more national titles though. But still. Just an observation is all. 

 

Oregon was like 3 points away from blowing up the whole top 10 recruiting argument. It would have to be changed to top 20. If Oregon played 10 times I bet they would have won 5. They were pretty equal teams. 

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4 hours ago, Huskers93-97 said:

But didnt it take Osborne 22 years or so to put it all together. Maybe Wisconsin is on the same path but on year 15 or year 20. Thats all I am saying. I will say Nebraska over that 22 years was a few ball bounces away from numerous more national titles though. But still. Just an observation is all. 

 

Oregon was like 3 points away from blowing up the whole top 10 recruiting argument. It would have to be changed to top 20. If Oregon played 10 times I bet they would have won 5. They were pretty equal teams. 

Several teams have been close but they havent delivered. It did take TO a very long time to get his nattys. A top 10 class doesnt promise anything. Look at USC, Texas etc. Its just something that has been shown in modern college football to be practically a prerequisite for winning a national championship. 

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