Big Red 40 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Thanks Stumpy . I tried to find a chart like that but i couldn't. I always laugh at your screen name since that's my nickname for my son lol 1 Link to comment
QMany Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Like clockwork, we have now entered the part of the Trump/GOP program where they attack the outspoken survivors. Donald Trump Jr. liked this tweet: 2 Link to comment
Redux Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 10 hours ago, Landlord said: Anyone claiming that this is primarily, or even somewhat, of a mental health issue - got any data to back up that claim? I see people spout that off all the time, but what is it based off of? I haven't seen anything that shows the United States being drastically worse at dealing with mental health than other developed countries. I also don't even know what 'mental health' as an extremely broad catch-all is even supposed to be referring to. What mental health issue is the mental health issue? Yes, it's simply availability causing people to do these things. If bump stocks and silencers weren't available, they wouldn't want to hurt anyone. That must be it. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 "A Hero's Welcome" Man... that's gut wrenching. 4 Link to comment
Landlord Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Stumpy1 said: This is actually exactly what I'm talking about. What does 'mental illness' mean for any of these men? That doesn't help us at all. Are they bipolar? Schizophrenic? This graph is just a visual version of the same sound byte that doesn't tell us anything. Conversely, Dr. James Alan Fox, a criminologist with Northeastern University and author of “Extreme Killing: Understanding Serial and Mass Murder,” said it's dangerous to assume that the mentally ill tend to commit these shootings. "There’s not really a correlation," said Fox, who maintains a database on mass shootings. "We like to think that these people are different from the rest of us. We want a simple explanation and if we just say they’re mentally ill, case closed. Because of how fearful dangerous and deadly their actions are, we really want to distance ourselves from it and relegate it to illness." ... As Fox asserts, the belief that the mentally ill are more likely to take part in a mass shooting appears to be a misleading. There were 198,760 homicides committed by a firearm in the United States between 1999 and 2015, according to the National Center for Health Statistic. Despite the high number, the APA report from 2016 says that fewer than 1 percent of firearm homicides are committed by a person diagnosed with a mental illness. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/connecting-mental-illness-and-mass-shooting-misses-the-point-experts-say/ar-BBJlKT5 Mental health advocates say media reports of mass shootings by disturbed individuals galvanize public attention and reinforce the impression that severe mental illness leads to violence. But various epidemiologic studies over the past two decades show that the vast majority of people with severe mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or severe depression, are never violent toward others. People with serious mental illness are three times more likely than those who are not mentally ill to commit violent acts again themselves or others, but that is still a very small number of people, about 2.9% of people with serious mental illness within a year. And the impact on gun violence statistics is marginal, amounting to about 4% of all firearm homicides, according to research as recent as last year. ... Gun violence and mental illness are public health problems "that intersect at the edges" but have very little overlap, said Jeffrey Swanson, a professor in psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Duke University who specializes in gun violence and mental illness. http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/25/health/gun-violence-mental-health-issue/index.html My Northeastern University colleague Jack Levin and I have studied dozens upon dozens of mass murderers over the past few decades, and Loughner fits a pattern seen time and time again. Although serious mental illness can be identified in some cases, most mass murderers are clear-headed and deliberate. Contrary to popular stereotype, they don't just suddenly snap and go berserk, killing indiscriminately. http://archive.boston.com/community/blogs/crime_punishment/2011/01/the_real_causes_of_mass_murder.html 5 hours ago, Redux said: Yes, it's simply availability causing people to do these things. If bump stocks and silencers weren't available, they wouldn't want to hurt anyone. That must be it. Redux, I never f'ing said that or hinted at it. Stop putting words in my damn mouth and please figure out how to discuss what the other person actually says. 2 Link to comment
Redux Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 What you're saying are exaggerations, not my fault you're leaving them open for interpretation. Link to comment
zoogs Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 The problem is very obviously guns. 3 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Redux said: What you're saying are exaggerations, not my fault you're leaving them open for interpretation. The post you responded to, that he asked you to stop putting words in his mouth, asked very pertinent questions that should be answered by anyone claiming this is all a "mental health" problem. Where is the data to back up the claim that these shootings are primarily a "mental health" issue? Where is the basis (as in, the study or studies) that show America's gun violence epidemic is caused by "mental health" issues. How does America's treatment of mental health issues compare to that of other countries? Which mental health issue(s) are people talking about when they say this is a mental health issue problem? These aren't exaggerations, they're questions seeking data to support the claim that the problem isn't guns, it's mental health. They're exceedingly pertinent questions. 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, zoogs said: The problem is very obviously guns. That's only part of the problem. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, zoogs said: The problem is very obviously guns. 3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: That's only part of the problem. It is 90% of the problem. And if we could curb some of that, it'd put a huge, huge dent in the overall problem. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, knapplc said: It is 90% of the problem. And if we could curb some of that, it'd put a huge, huge dent in the overall problem. It's meaningless to argue percentages. I'll agree that it's the highest percentage problem and it needs addressed. However, to ignore other problems in our society with mental health just because guns are big issue would be a huge disservice to the entire issue. We need to do both and we CAN do both if our political leadership pulls their collective heads out of their asses. Edited February 20, 2018 by BigRedBuster Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, BigRedBuster said: However, to ignore other problems in our society with mental health just because guns are big issue would be a huge disservice to the entire issue. What is the link between mass shootings and mental health? Link to comment
zoogs Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Yes, I also agree that the major political movement that's pushing gun control while also seeking to dismantle universal access to healthcare and mental health is doing a huge disservice to us all. They should really pull their head out and understand that these priorities are, in fact, harmonious. Those guys should be working for expanded health services, accessible to all. It's a total shame that they aren't; I'd fight hard for them if only they did. Anyway. Repeal 2A. Edited February 20, 2018 by zoogs 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, knapplc said: What is the link between mass shootings and mental health? Good friggen Lord. This is the part of the conversation that leaves me banging my head against the wall. Anyone who takes an AR-15 and blows holes in a dozen or more people has mental health issues. Now, they might be different than some what we currently think of as "mental health issues"...but, they are there. WHILE DOING GUN CONTROL.....this needs to be studied. There is something really screwed up in our society where this many people want to do this. it's pathetic that this administration has banned the CDC from studying it. Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, BigRedBuster said: Anyone who takes an AR-15 and blows holes in a dozen or more people has mental health issues. This is not necessarily true. Where is the evidence that this is true? I mean, I think anyone who roots for Oklahoma has to be crazy. But there's no study that shows this, so my claim that something seems self-evident to me is not necessarily a true thing. We can't simply claim that anyone who shoots up a dozen or more people has mental health issues. Soldiers, for example, are not suffering from mental health issues. 1 Link to comment
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