BigRedBuster Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, knapplc said: You kind of have that backwards. Trump's action was wrong (stop me if you've heard that before) precisely BECAUSE we need to know if it's a mental health issue. This is all that needs to be said. This is the only thing I have advocated for. Study it and look to see why we have people in this country that want to do this and how we can reverse that trend....WHILE WE ARE PUTTING IN SENSIBLE GUN REGULATIONS!!!! 1 Link to comment
zoogs Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Bear in mind, "total repeal" != "total ban", or even "any ban" Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: I don't mean to vent AT you. I'm venting at the entire mess of debate and how we all hunker down on our sides and refuse to even discuss anything else. Understood. it's a vexing issue, and one that needs solving quickly. Every day someone we love is probably at risk. It's a scary thought. Link to comment
Redux Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, zoogs said: Bear in mind, "total repeal" != "total ban", or even "any ban" Guns aren't going away. It's just not happening. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said: This is all that needs to be said. This is the only thing I have advocated for. Study it and look to see why we have people in this country that want to do this and how we can reverse that trend....WHILE WE ARE PUTTING IN SENSIBLE GUN REGULATIONS!!!! This is why I'm not sure why it seemed we were on opposite sides. This is actually pretty much my stance on the issue. This just popped up on my Twitter feed. Kinda related to this topic. It's a heartening thing to see. 1 Link to comment
B.B. Hemingway Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 hours ago, zoogs said: The problem is very obviously guns. Taking away certain guns may go some way towards helping the problem, but they, in and of themselves, certainly aren't the problem. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, knapplc said: This is why I'm not sure why it seemed we were on opposite sides. This is actually pretty much my stance on the issue. This just popped up on my Twitter feed. Kinda related to this topic. It's a heartening thing to see. Trump claims (I'll believe it when I see it) that he is all for strengthening federal background checks. So....I'm interested....what exactly should the back ground checks be looking for? Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Redux said: Guns aren't going away. It's just not happening. Not all guns, but I think we can all agree some guns aren't necessary in a civil society - no matter how cool they are. 13 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said: Taking away certain guns may go some way towards helping the problem I think that's the best we can hope for. For better or worse, guns are heavily tied into American culture, and will never entirely go away. But ridding ourselves of some of them may help. And that's a good step. And hey - we can always repeal any law banning guns. We did it with Prohibition. Link to comment
Landlord Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 33 minutes ago, Redux said: If it's not mental health, what is it? You're implying here that it's not a mental health issue, but a weapons issue no? If you're not, what are you implying? The only implication is that there isn't really evidence to go along with widespread claims that it's a mental health issue. Link to comment
Redux Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Landlord said: The only implication is that there isn't really evidence to go along with widespread claims that it's a mental health issue. Then what is it? If you're not implying it's access, and you're suggesting it's not mental instability, then what is it? Edited February 20, 2018 by Redux Link to comment
Stumpy1 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Landlord said: The only implication is that there isn't really evidence to go along with widespread claims that it's a mental health issue. So the doctors and the many other people that have made claims that the shooters have had history of mental health issues are all full of it? Guess Im confused on what you are getting at. 2 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Stumpy1 said: So the doctors and the many other people that have made claims that the shooters have had history of mental health issues are all full of it? Guess Im confused on what you are getting at. One person having mental health issues doesn't mean that everyone who shoots up a bunch of people have mental health issues, or that it's the root of the problem. The man responsible for the worst mass shooting in American history has no diagnosed mental health issues. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment
Landlord Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 25 minutes ago, Stumpy1 said: So the doctors and the many other people that have made claims that the shooters have had history of mental health issues are all full of it? Guess Im confused on what you are getting at. What I'm getting at is that people claim things like what you just did, but please give me the sources. I just linked several articles with experts claiming there is no correlation, or a weak one at best. Who are the doctors and 'many other people' making these claims, and where are the claims? I want to see them. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I think we might be talking about 2 things here (?). Haven't read every post. Let's assume it's a fact that mental health issues are similar in all first world countries. Things we're talking about: Thing 1: People claiming it's a mental health issue are ignoring the fact that other countries with mental health issues don't have the same rate of gun violence. This fact means that mental health does not cause gun violence. Thing 2: People who shoot a bunch of humans are more likely to have health issues than those who don't shoot a bunch of humans. The converse of Thing 2 does not have to be true. Perhaps people with mental health issues are more likely to want to harm other people with whatever weapon is available, and in the U.S., guns are more readily available. Link to comment
Redux Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 35 minutes ago, Landlord said: What I'm getting at is that people claim things like what you just did, but please give me the sources. I just linked several articles with experts claiming there is no correlation, or a weak one at best. Who are the doctors and 'many other people' making these claims, and where are the claims? I want to see them. Then What Is It ? 45 minutes ago, knapplc said: One person having mental health issues doesn't mean that everyone who shoots up a bunch of people have mental health issues, or that it's the root of the problem. The man responsible for the worst mass shooting in American history has no diagnosed mental health issues. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Key word, "diagnosed". Link to comment
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