The Trump Economy

[commando]

some of this is speculative  https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

Donald Trump: As projected in the FY 2019 budget, Trump plans to add $4.775 trillion, a 29-percent increase from the $20.245 trillion debt at the end of Obama's last budget for FY 2017.

 

• FY 2021 - $1.119 trillion.
• FY 2020 - $1.198 trillion.
• FY 2019 - $1.225 trillion.
• FY 2018 - $1.233 trillion.

 

Barack Obama: Added $8.588 trillion, a 74-percent increase from the $11.657 trillion debt at the end of Bush’s last budget, FY 2009.

 

• FY 2017 - $672 billion.
• FY 2016 - $1.423 trillion.
• FY 2015 - $327 billion.
• FY 2014 - $1.086 trillion. 
• FY 2013 - $672 billion.
• FY 2012 - $1.276 trillion.
• FY 2011 - $1.229 trillion.
• FY 2010 - $1.652 trillion.
• FY 2009 - $253 billion.

[Waldo]

3 minutes ago, commando said:

some of this is speculative  https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

Donald Trump: As projected in the FY 2019 budget, Trump plans to add $4.775 trillion, a 29-percent increase from the $20.245 trillion debt at the end of Obama's last budget for FY 2017.

 

• FY 2021 - $1.119 trillion.
• FY 2020 - $1.198 trillion.
• FY 2019 - $1.225 trillion.
• FY 2018 - $1.233 trillion.

 

Barack Obama: Added $8.588 trillion, a 74-percent increase from the $11.657 trillion debt at the end of Bush’s last budget, FY 2009.

 

• FY 2017 - $672 billion.
• FY 2016 - $1.423 trillion.
• FY 2015 - $327 billion.
• FY 2014 - $1.086 trillion. 
• FY 2013 - $672 billion.
• FY 2012 - $1.276 trillion.
• FY 2011 - $1.229 trillion.
• FY 2010 - $1.652 trillion.
• FY 2009 - $253 billion.

I used that number to prove that anyone can wave statistics around. I’m not going to argue the economies, because it’s still to early to tell what will happen. 

[Danny Bateman]

The president was honest - for once! - about his party's feelings on the debt.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

#king of debt. 

[HuskerNBigD]

On 12/4/2018 at 9:44 PM, commando said:

thank god we have a business racoon running our country now instead of that idiot obama

 

 

 

I'm going to say presidents don't control stock markets, then use the stock market to say how s#!tty Trump is. Seriously? Political positioning is so tiring.

 

I also find it disingenuous that they start this trend in January. Should start in November of the preceding year, as some of the market enthusiasm is already baked in the reference point. I'm not sticking up for Trump, I think the guy is a huge jackass, but it is so infuriating to see people use snapshots or data-mine for market points that support one side of the isle, or the other. There was clearly, indisputable market enthusiasm when Trump was elected. It has tapered of since then, yes, but we're also 9 years into a bull market. If you were to look at decade long data, going back to the 1920s, the average number of up years for the market is 6. We've blown right past that this decade and one would think a reversion to the mean would occur at some point.

 

As @Waldosaid, completely different economies. 

[HuskerNBigD]

20 hours ago, commando said:

so...obama took over a failing economy and turned it around in 1 year  .   trump took over a growing econmy and the growth stalled out after 1 year.  obamas economy grew for his last 7 years.   we don't know yet what the future holds for trumps economy...but trends right now are not bright.

 

How can you say growth stalled when Q3 GDP figures were the highest since 2010? You talk about trends, but then completely ignore one. Almost like you're deep seeded hatred for Orange is disallowing you to look at things objectively? 

 

[HuskerNBigD]

delete.

[commando]

1 hour ago, HuskerNBigD said:

 

I also find it disingenuous that they start this trend in January.

they started the chart when he took office and when obama took office.  not sure how that is unfair.      and that article i posted talked about exactly what you said...but trump and the redhats have been claming his great brain is the only reason the markets were going up.    if they want to claim that then they can also own this. JMO

[HuskerNBigD]

24 minutes ago, commando said:

they started the chart when he took office and when obama took office.  not sure how that is unfair.      and that article i posted talked about exactly what you said...but trump and the redhats have been claming his great brain is the only reason the markets were going up.    if they want to claim that then they can also own this. JMO

 

I outlined why it was "unfair". Starting the chart at that point in time of him taking office is purposely creating bias to fit a narrative. 

[Nebfanatic]

Exactly what commado said. If Trump is going to spout off about his effect on the amazing economy then he gets to take the blame when it falls too. Stock market isn't controlled by the president at all but Trump has tied himself to it. @HuskerNBigD what do you think starting the chart earlier would prove? 

[commando]

10 minutes ago, HuskerNBigD said:

 

I outlined why it was "unfair". Starting the chart at that point in time of him taking office is purposely creating bias to fit a narrative. 

so you want to fit your bias and narrative by starting a chart when it was going up under obama?

[Fru]

2 hours ago, HuskerNBigD said:

I'm going to say presidents don't control stock markets, then use the stock market to say how s#!tty Trump is. Seriously? Political positioning is so tiring.

 

I also find it disingenuous that they start this trend in January. Should start in November of the preceding year, as some of the market enthusiasm is already baked in the reference point. I'm not sticking up for Trump, I think the guy is a huge jackass, but it is so infuriating to see people use snapshots or data-mine for market points that support one side of the isle, or the other. There was clearly, indisputable market enthusiasm when Trump was elected. It has tapered of since then, yes, but we're also 9 years into a bull market. If you were to look at decade long data, going back to the 1920s, the average number of up years for the market is 6. We've blown right past that this decade and one would think a reversion to the mean would occur at some point.

 

As @Waldosaid, completely different economies. 

 

The tweet didn't say anything close to that. 

[BigRedBuster]

Typically, Presidents don't control the stock market.  However, Trump has personally done more that instantly affects what the market does than any President I can remember.  It isn't a good thing, but, right now, the market acts as though it's doing nothing but watching his twitter feed.  He tweets that China agreed to his demands.....market goes up.  He tweets he's putting on more tariffs....market goes down.  Just look at today, his administration arrested a Chinese executive and the market went from looking like it was going to open up.....but, now it's down 450.

 

The idiot has everyone on pins and needles with his constant tweets and personal attacks and actions.  That is moving the market on a daily basis.

[HuskerNBigD]

47 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Exactly what commado said. If Trump is going to spout off about his effect on the amazing economy then he gets to take the blame when it falls too. Stock market isn't controlled by the president at all but Trump has tied himself to it. @HuskerNBigD what do you think starting the chart earlier would prove? 

45 minutes ago, commando said:

so you want to fit your bias and narrative by starting a chart when it was going up under obama?

 

I don't have a bias. I couldn't care less who is in office. However, if you're going to willful ignore the fact that there was market enthusiasm immediately following the election, you're purposely being dense. Moreso, I get tired of people just posting random tweets that are click bait worthy and don't provide context. Everyone is so reactive and quick to provide absolutes and these articles /graphs will just provide fuel for a strongly burning fire, which only divides people more and more, not allowing for any sort of resolutions or compromises to take pace.

 

Putting political preferences aside, it is a proven fact the markets, as a whole, are more receptive to a pro-business leader. That is the platform the that Trump, and most republicans run on, and once it was known Trump had won the market reacted. Want evidence? The market was up ~12% during 2016, of which 65% of the return was generated post November 6th. That is more than coincidence. Furthermore, 2017 was the best annual return the S&P 500 had obtained since 2009, which coincided with coming out of the great recession.

 

However, Trump deserves the criticism he's received for the trade games he's playing. He's an ignorant fool. I got into this argument earlier with someone, but the reason that China is going after the Midwest, and the Ag business, isn't because the tariffs will cripple the economy (again, agriculture in a broader sense only contributes ~5% to total GDP), it is due to the fact they want to hit the Trump constituents where it hurts.

 

 

35 minutes ago, Fru said:

 

The tweet didn't say anything close to that. 

It didn't explicitly state it, just provided a graphical inference...

 

 

[Fru]

7 minutes ago, HuskerNBigD said:

 

 

It didn't explicitly state it, just provided a graphical inference...

 

 

 

The tweet used objective facts to prove that Trump's claims about himself and the stock market are bogus.