Wisconsin Post Game Thread

[ColoradoHusk]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

I would like to see one too.  However, it also wouldn't surprise me if Pickering heals up over the off season and we see a much improved kicker with him next year.

I hope Pickering can back to the form he was at the last half of 2018.  He was a very dependable kicker, even if he doesn't have the longest range.

 

Either way, Frost needs to find a way to bring in a kickoff specialist.  NU needs to be getting touch backs.

[Mavric]

This is probably too far to the other extreme.  But I do think it's fair to point out that there were a bunch of other things that could have also done better to win the game as well.

 

Wisconsin had more yards of offense against Michigan than they did against us (I was at that game.  It was brutal).  Iowa only gave up 9 fewer yards against them than we did.  

 

The defense needs to be better.  But Wisconsin is also pretty good.

 

 

[teachercd]

6 minutes ago, Mavric said:

This is probably too far to the other extreme.  But I do think it's fair to point out that there were a bunch of other things that could have also done better to win the game as well.

 

Wisconsin had more yards of offense against Michigan than they did against us (I was at that game.  It was brutal).  Iowa only gave up 9 fewer yards against them than we did.  

 

The defense needs to be better.  But Wisconsin is also pretty good.

 

 

I get what Adam is saying and it makes some sense but it is a small picture way to look at things.  Chin's defense lets up a lot of points in a lot of games.  So while the didn't let up a ton of points in this game (like that KO return) and they were put in a few bad spots, it isn't like his defense is usually top 20.

[Husker in WI]

10 minutes ago, Mavric said:

This is probably too far to the other extreme.  But I do think it's fair to point out that there were a bunch of other things that could have also done better to win the game as well.

 

Wisconsin had more yards of offense against Michigan than they did against us (I was at that game.  It was brutal).  Iowa only gave up 9 fewer yards against them than we did.  

 

The defense needs to be better.  But Wisconsin is also pretty good.

 

 

 

For sure, and I'm curious how it would've gone if we were at full health. But I'm still baffled at things like this - I'm surprised they didn't run out of this more, we're just not equipped to stop any runs to the TE side here.

 

[HuskerNation1]

On 11/16/2019 at 2:36 PM, TheSker said:

13-0

 

Nice dodge...please share defensive specific data points to support your position. Last I checked Chin was not running the offense that ranked number one in the nation scoring 48.2 points a game.

[Undone]

On 11/17/2019 at 6:19 AM, Lightfighter214 said:

And according to 24/7 in 2018 held was our top recruiter coming in at #50 in the country,  and held is currently #40 in the 2019 cycle. Barret ruud is our second best at #70.

 

How many years do you need to know you dont have the best recruiters? Frost talked about not having players like chase young, well he doesn't have the coachea that can compete with recruiting players like chase young.

 

I'm not really concerned with how defensive recruiting has fared over this staff's first two classes. I'm concerned with their ability to actually coach and develop what they've got.

 

Go look up Wisconsin's defensive recruiting as a defense of this argument. They're not landing great players on defense - they're coaching them and motivating them.

[Mavric]

10 minutes ago, Husker in WI said:

 

For sure, and I'm curious how it would've gone if we were at full health. But I'm still baffled at things like this - I'm surprised they didn't run out of this more, we're just not equipped to stop any runs to the TE side here.

 

 

 

Eh ... I'm not sure it's that bad.  Not ideal but you can't take away everything.  And you can't see the entire defense from that shot but I assume we would still have safety help.

 

But our DE on the TE side is outside the OG.  So as long as he doesn't get reach-blocked, we're in pretty good shape.  DE has B gap, Davis has outside contain and Bootle is there for C gap or flow.  We're pretty gap-sound.

[ColoradoHusk]

6 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

I'm not really concerned with how defensive recruiting has fared over this staff's first two classes. I'm concerned with their ability to actually coach and develop what they've got.

 

Go look up Wisconsin's defensive recruiting as a defense of this argument. They're not landing great players on defense - they're coaching them and motivating them.

Other than Caleb Tannor, which you have pointed out numerous times (and I agree with you), which other young players recruited by Frost's staff haven't been developed yet?  I think it's way too early to say that the staff isn't good developers of talent.

[Husker in WI]

6 minutes ago, Mavric said:

Eh ... I'm not sure it's that bad.  Not ideal but you can't take away everything.  And you can't see the entire defense from that shot but I assume we would still have safety help.

 

But our DE on the TE side is outside the OG.  So as long as he doesn't get reach-blocked, we're in pretty good shape.  DE has B gap, Davis has outside contain and Bootle is there for C gap or flow.  We're pretty gap-sound.

True, and I'm not claiming I have better ideas. I'm sure whatever I came up with would have massive drawbacks. But having a gap sound defense isn't difficult, having a gap sound defense where the guys have a reasonable chance at being able to do their assignments is. This specific play Bootle and Barry are done from the beginning, Barry because of leverage and Bootle because he's supposed to take on the Tackle. The dline and Bootle even do a good job here, and it's still an 8 yard carry by the backup.

 

[Undone]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Other than Caleb Tannor, which you have pointed out numerous times (and I agree with you), which other young players recruited by Frost's staff haven't been developed yet?  I think it's way too early to say that the staff isn't good developers of talent.

 

I don't like the narrative that only guys Frost recruits are guys they're responsible for improving. This narrative claims that Riley's guys are so terrible and have so much football PTSD or whatever from bad coaching that they can't be improved.

 

I think that doesn't make any sense.

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, Undone said:

 

I don't like the narrative that only guys Frost recruits are guys they're responsible for improving. This narrative claims that Riley's guys are so terrible and have so much football PTSD or whatever from bad coaching that they can't be improved.

 

I think that doesn't make any sense.

And Frost and Co. have improved some of them.

[TheSker]

7 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

Nice dodge...please share defensive specific data points to support your position. Last I checked Chin was not running the offense that ranked number one in the nation scoring 48.2 points a game.

First....that comment is soooo 2 days ago.  

 

And it was a sarcastic response to your "demand" for evidence.  The stats for our defense have been posted many many times.  We're aware of them.

 

Since 2017 our 3rd down defense is hurting us badly.  We'll see if Frost and Chinander can solve that.

 

I certainly hope they can.

 

Typing "fire Chinander" every other post doesn't solve a thing.  There's a high chance he's the D coordinator next season.

 

It was being pointed out at the time that our offense was coming up empty too often in the red zone.

 

 

 

 

[Undone]

8 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

And Frost and Co. have improved some of them.

 

I agree with this statement.

 

According to this site, we're 84th in total defense. What I typically hear on this forum is "w3LL l00k h0w much b3tte2 tHat is tHaN riLey!!!!11" Great. It's a little better than Riley's averages for total defense. But it still sucks and based on high school recruiting rankings of our blackshirts, I believe it should be better.

 

It's not just a "there are only two options" situation, where the two only options are:

 

1. We're a bit better than Riley on defense so shut up and smile.

2. We're absolutely terrible and the staff sucks and Chinander should be fired.

 

For me there's a third option where I believe Chinander needs to step up his game. We're not as bad as when we ranked 116th in total defense under Diaco...but I think we should be better against the run than we have been this season. That's my argument. 

 

 

[ColoradoHusk]

3 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

I don't like the narrative that only guys Frost recruits are guys they're responsible for improving. This narrative claims that Riley's guys are so terrible and have so much football PTSD or whatever from bad coaching that they can't be improved.

 

I think that doesn't make any sense.

That's a fair statement and criticism of Frost and his staff.  I think players do most of their development early in their college careers, but some can be late developers.  I have the opinion that the carry-over players had so little development early in their career, that Frost was trying to play catch-up with them.  Throw in the fact that many players just flat out left, it makes it challenging to fully analyze how well the staff is at developing players.

[Husker in WI]

8 minutes ago, Husker in WI said:

True, and I'm not claiming I have better ideas. I'm sure whatever I came up with would have massive drawbacks. But having a gap sound defense isn't difficult, having a gap sound defense where the guys have a reasonable chance at being able to do their assignments is. This specific play Bootle and Barry are done from the beginning, Barry because of leverage and Bootle because he's supposed to take on the Tackle. The dline and Bootle even do a good job here, and it's still an 8 yard carry by the backup.

 

 

 

And I don't actually have a problem with this if they've got the guys they want at Safety. But it seems like they knew/planned on Bootle being back at Safety this week, and this is just not his strength. If this is Deontai, sure - still don't love him taking on a lineman, but a lot of times they ran this and Bootle was free to make the tackle. It's just that asking him to take down Taylor one on one is a mismatch - I don't know exactly how to scheme around that, so I can really only criticize so much. I'm sure the coaches wish we had more Safety depth too.