Way too early OLine projection

[twofittyonred]

3 hours ago, swmohusker said:

Not true.  Jamies was our best blocker and cam and Farniok would probably been right there for the next guy up.  Our troubles were at guard.  There are plays when he gets to the 2nd level and covers up LBs.  Maybe he doesn’t pick them up and throw them over his head, but his athleticism flashes and you can see great potential in this one.  

didn't say he was our worst blocker...  do I think he will grow into the position? probably... do we have better..? probably not.   But to say he was the best, which my response was to, is not true...

3 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

Ummmm....no. 

ummmm....yes.

[twofittyonred]

2 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

I'm not the one who claimed to have the grades that proved my point? I wasn't the one who started by saying Jurgens is bad and needs to be moved back to TE I was just responding with my disagreement. The burden of proof was never on me as I was expressing my opinion on the matter.

You said he was the best blocker on the 0-line....  prove it...  

[Nebfanatic]

1 minute ago, twofittyonred said:

You said he was the best blocker on the 0-line....  prove it...  

I said down the stretch to be clear but I can't because that is my opinion from watching the games. I never claimed to have grades or metrics that proved my point, unlike someone.

[twofittyonred]

5 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

I said down the stretch to be clear but I can't because that is my opinion from watching the games. I never claimed to have grades or metrics that proved my point, unlike someone.

oh...your one of those guys....   got it..!!   have a great day!

 

[Nebfanatic]

2 minutes ago, twofittyonred said:

oh...your one of those guys....   got it..!!   have a great day!

 

A fan? Well yea of course I am

21 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

Fans always gave opinions on who the best O linemen are. However, with center, a big part of it is if they are making the right line calls.  It’s almost impossible for a fan to know who is better at that. 

 

[Undone]

On 12/22/2019 at 10:28 AM, madrat said:

Chicken and egg reasoning there.  He came in as a tight end and by October was out by injury.  Five years in a row he got injured, dating back to high school.

 

Feels like trolling. But I'll respond just once.

 

You have to zoom out. There were two freshmen to play at that spot. It was going to be growing pains no matter which guy we went with. So we went with the semi-freakish athlete with raw physical/athletic abilities. There were growing pains - but there were going to be whether we played him or Farniok.

 

It's not like we were going to win the West in 2019 with the injuries we had down the stretch (in addition to losing Washington). So, I'm glad we got Cam in there. I think it's obvious his ceiling is pretty high at the position.

[madrat]

21 hours ago, Undone said:

You have to zoom out. There were two freshmen to play at that spot. It was going to be growing pains no matter which guy we went with. So we went with the semi-freakish athlete with raw physical/athletic abilities. There were growing pains - but there were going to be whether we played him or Farniok.

 

It's not like we were going to win the West in 2019 with the injuries we had down the stretch (in addition to losing Washington). So, I'm glad we got Cam in there. I think it's obvious his ceiling is pretty high at the position.

Your first sentence was unnecessary. 

 

The bold is an interesting sentence.  In what way do you find Jurgens a freakish athlete?  As a tight end or linebacker, there is an argument he is well equipped.  But he made a switch to a position group that is often considerably larger and his good physique wasn't necessary the brute strength at the new position.  We had several options at center.  You have several freshman options, true, but they are guys that played that position for years.  While it looks great having a center blast off every play, it is also not great to have a center that gets knocked out of the way by the upper quarter of talent in the B1G.  Jurgens had two pretty good games when (1) there was not a nose over him every play; and (2) most of his blocks were double-teams.  He doesn't win many matchups when the nose is over him.  And he isn't winning or stalemating his target the majority of the time when it is one-on-one blocks.

 

A typical true freshman center will likely end up with the same results no matter how talented he is going to be.  But Jurgens was not a true freshman.  And throwing a novice in at that position limited our line calls.  Those issues combined to really hurt the first three-quarters of the season.  At least a half dozen guys were able to play center.  We lived with the lumps and it cost us games.  And eventually he'll get it.  But it sure would have been nice to ease into these dramatic changes when the team could have used a bowl game.

 

As for chicken and egg comment.  Frost has a vision.  He has stuck to fewer options rather than testing waters with other guys.  We heard the whispers that the QBs were not ready so we really need to stick with Martinez.  Yet those 0-2 backups still managed to score when using fewer options than available to Martinez.  One even came into the last game and threw a quick strike TD on one play and someone here tried to claim it was a trick play.  Yet the starter ran the same play and did not find the open guy over and over.  Either Frost is trying to implement a system or he's trying to play specific players.  If he needs the system, then stick to guys that run it long enough to get those specific players up to speed.  Sputtering with specific players that just aren't clicking isn't some moral victory.  Get the chicken or the egg first. then begin the cycle that successfully repeats,

[Husker in WI]

4 minutes ago, madrat said:

Your first sentence was unnecessary. 

 

The bold is an interesting sentence.  In what way do you find Jurgens a freakish athlete?  As a tight end or linebacker, there is an argument he is well equipped.  But he made a switch to a position group that is often considerably larger and his good physique wasn't necessary the brute strength at the new position.  We had several options at center.  You have several freshman options, true, but they are guys that played that position for years.  While it looks great having a center blast off every play, it is also not great to have a center that gets knocked out of the way by the upper quarter of talent in the B1G.  Jurgens had two pretty good games when (1) there was not a nose over him every play; and (2) most of his blocks were double-teams.  He doesn't win many matchups when the nose is over him.  And he isn't winning or stalemating his target the majority of the time when it is one-on-one blocks.

 

A typical true freshman center will likely end up with the same results no matter how talented he is going to be.  But Jurgens was not a true freshman.  And throwing a novice in at that position limited our line calls.  Those issues combined to really hurt the first three-quarters of the season.  At least a half dozen guys were able to play center.  We lived with the lumps and it cost us games.  And eventually he'll get it.  But it sure would have been nice to ease into these dramatic changes when the team could have used a bowl game.

 

Jurgens has a strength/quickness combination that no one else in our O-Line group has - and there are plenty of comments from the coaches along the lines of "freakish athlete," I don't think his athleticism is really questionable.

 

Yeah, we have other guys who can play Center. But they were all going to have growing pains - pretty sure the only options with Center experience are little Farniok and Hunter Miller. Farniok isn't much bigger than Jurgens, and guessing which guy would give better line calls doesn't get us anywhere. I doubt the South Dakota high school line calls give Farniok that much of a leg up. Miller has been playing Center longer and has the size, but I think the fact that Jurgens and Farniok jumped him this quickly speaks to his athletic limitations. I guess there's Wegener too, but I'm not counting on a Juco walk-on to be an improvement.

 

I can buy that Farniok was possibly a better option early in the year, but there's no way to know that for sure. And I don't buy that it cost us games. It could have helped against Colorado, but I still don't see how you watch that game and come out with thinking Center was the problem. It was a problem, but we had a 17-0 lead late in the 3rd quarter and a 17-7 lead with Colorado backed up inside their 5 early in the 4th. A complete defensive breakdown cost us that game. A different Center doesn't help us against OSU or Minnesota either.

[madrat]

Piper, Hixson, and Forbes are three more off the top of my head that had center experience.  The funny thing is people think the Farnioks are some under-achievers.  Both of them are active in the weight room.  Both of them are 100% N.  If I had to guess, Will probably only played 50 snaps this year.  I honestly couldn't say he did any worse than Jurgens on blocking.  But what he did do was deliver a good, consistent chest-high snap.  That is important because the QB can spend more time with his eyes looking at the D.

 

Bo Wilson is another guy that get's negative talk around here.  He actually did well most of the season, but when he was getting banged up the coaches finally made the switch.  When he was healthy he was actually very active out there.  His size is not the greatest, but he was very quick off the line and engaged people on most every play.  What Wilson has that some backups do not is leadership.  He's a very vocal guy from what I've seen out there.  Matt Farniok is one of those pillars on the team that stands out.  When he's great he just is not recognized.  When he falters, though, he stands out.  One of his best games he had three or four really bad plays were what people harped on.  Never mind the 80% of the plays he did well.

[RedSavage]

2 minutes ago, madrat said:

Piper, Hixson, and Forbes are three more off the top of my head that had center experience.  The funny thing is people think the Farnioks are some under-achievers.  Both of them are active in the weight room.  Both of them are 100% N.  If I had to guess, Will probably only played 50 snaps this year.  I honestly couldn't say he did any worse than Jurgens on blocking.  But what he did do was deliver a good, consistent chest-high snap.  That is important because the QB can spend more time with his eyes looking at the D.

 

Bo Wilson is another guy that get's negative talk around here.  He actually did well most of the season, but when he was getting banged up the coaches finally made the switch.  When he was healthy he was actually very active out there.  His size is not the greatest, but he was very quick off the line and engaged people on most every play.  What Wilson has that some backups do not is leadership.  He's a very vocal guy from what I've seen out there.  Matt Farniok is one of those pillars on the team that stands out.  When he's great he just is not recognized.  When he falters, though, he stands out.  One of his best games he had three or four really bad plays that people harped on.  Never mind the 80% of the plays he did well.

You lost me at Hixson

[Husker in WI]

4 minutes ago, madrat said:

Piper, Hixson, and Forbes are three more off the top of my head that had center experience.  The funny thing is people think the Farnioks are some under-achievers.  Both of them are active in the weight room.  Both of them are 100% N.  If I had to guess, Will probably only played 50 snaps this year.  I honestly couldn't say he did any worse than Jurgens on blocking.  But what he did do was deliver a good, consistent chest-high snap.  That is important because the QB can spend more time with his eyes looking at the D.

 

Bo Wilson is another guy that get's negative talk around here.  He actually did well most of the season, but when he was getting banged up the coaches finally made the switch.  When he was healthy he was actually very active out there.  His size is not the greatest, but he was very quick off the line and engaged people on most every play.  What Wilson has that some backups do not is leadership.  He's a very vocal guy from what I've seen out there.  Matt Farniok is one of those pillars on the team that stands out.  When he's great he just is not recognized.  When he falters, though, he stands out.  One of his best games he had three or four really bad plays were what people harped on.  Never mind the 80% of the plays he did well.

 

Did Piper play Center in high school? In any case, you've got another redshirt freshman (Farniok), a true freshman who I thought played Guard but could be wrong (Piper), and a bunch of underclassmen walk ons. Walk ons can absolutely become good players, and we have a rich history of that on the oline. But how many were Centers, and how many were ready to play at a high level before they were Juniors?

 

I'm with you on the Farnioks, Matt is way better than he gets credit for. I just don't necessarily see Will as significantly bigger/stronger than Jurgens at this point - he still doesn't look big out there. I do agree on the snaps, that would've helped earlier in the year. I just don't know enough about judging line play to appropriately factor in the snaps, line calls, athleticism and what that allows the offense to do, and of course the actual blocking and come out with an answer on who should've been starting. Especially not being at practice. So with that, I'm trusting that the coaches wouldn't give up games this year for the future, that they truly believed Jurgens was the better guy from game 1.

[bhunt7]

I'm excited for Cam at Center but I am wondering why Josh Wegener isn't being mentioned with guys with experience at Center? Is he not with the team now?

 

 

Husker.com Bio:

Wegener joined Nebraska after a two-year career at Iowa Western Community College. Wegener was rated as the No. 1 junior college center by JCGridiron.com. He played in nine games on the offensive line for the Reivers in 2018 before suffering a foot injury. In his first year at Iowa Western in 2017, Wegener played in four games on the defensive line before suffering a torn ACL. Wegener played his prep ball for Algona High School in Iowa. 

[Husker in WI]

1 minute ago, bhunt7 said:

I'm excited for Cam at Center but I am wondering why Josh Wegener isn't being mentioned with guys with experience at Center? Is he not with the team now?

 

 

Husker.com Bio:

Wegener joined Nebraska after a two-year career at Iowa Western Community College. Wegener was rated as the No. 1 junior college center by JCGridiron.com. He played in nine games on the offensive line for the Reivers in 2018 before suffering a foot injury. In his first year at Iowa Western in 2017, Wegener played in four games on the defensive line before suffering a torn ACL. Wegener played his prep ball for Algona High School in Iowa. 

 

I mentioned him earlier, but he was the #1 Juco Center because most services don't rate Juco Centers. He's a walk-on - which doesn't mean he can't play, but I wouldn't count on it. Also not super experienced at Center if he played Dline his first year at IWCC.

[madrat]

13 minutes ago, bhunt7 said:

I'm excited for Cam at Center but I am wondering why Josh Wegener isn't being mentioned with guys with experience at Center? Is he not with the team now?

 

 

Husker.com Bio:

Wegener joined Nebraska after a two-year career at Iowa Western Community College. Wegener was rated as the No. 1 junior college center by JCGridiron.com. He played in nine games on the offensive line for the Reivers in 2018 before suffering a foot injury. In his first year at Iowa Western in 2017, Wegener played in four games on the defensive line before suffering a torn ACL. Wegener played his prep ball for Algona High School in Iowa. 

Wegener was a stud on the field and in the classroom before joining the Huskers.  But, like Jurgens, he came into fall camp with lower leg injuries.  I also heard he was not eligible due to some transfer rule, but nobody was specific what it was.  He should be interesting to watch now that he is eligible.  His foot injury hasn't really been talked about.  I'm hoping he healed up to give Jurgens and Will Farniok a competition for the center job.

[EZ-E]

20 minutes ago, madrat said:

Wegener was a stud on the field and in the classroom before joining the Huskers.  But, like Jurgens, he came into fall camp with lower leg injuries.  I also heard he was not eligible due to some transfer rule, but nobody was specific what it was.  He should be interesting to watch now that he is eligible.  His foot injury hasn't really been talked about.  I'm hoping he healed up to give Jurgens and Will Farniok a competition for the center job.

 

I can't think of a single transfer rule that would allow a student athlete to transfer to a 4 year as a student and not be allowed to play.