Censorship

[nic]

@Ulty 

Too difficult to quote quote from my mobile.

 

I suspect the safe learning environment discussion for that day was about  providing it for all genders. Genders evolved to biological sex and that is when the professor said there are only two sexes. I suspect this didn't start as a discussion of biology. 

 

The student that organized the petition was not even in the class the first day this discussion happened. That student purposefully brought the same discussion up the next time the class met. How do we know that wasn't the heated discussion? That student obviously came to class to confront the professor based on what she heard. 

 

Since neither of us were there and all the quotes I have seen are from the perspective of the students wanting the instructor replaced, we are really not sure how this all went down. 

 

It would interesting to be a fly on the wall for the debrief between the professor and her boss.

[Dr. Strangelove]

11 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

While I think your criticisms are wildly overblown (essentially a tiny but loud minority of young people and college students caring about something too much), I'll take going too far in the direction of something like differences in gender/sex than too far in the direction of a fascist authoritarian nation state, gun flagellation and ruining our planet for money any day.

I agree entirely, I vote for Democrats and I want them to win. I see this issue at costing them winnable Senate seats in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Arizona, etc. these are states that Democrats must win Senate elections in if they want to take back SCOTUS in our lifetimes.

 

In order to win in those states, Democrats need to launch terms like Latinx, reparations, gender non-binary, racial justice, or anything related into the nearest supermassive black hole never to be seen or heard from again. None of those individually are huge issues, but it costs them votes on the margin in an Electoral system that starts them at a massive disadvantage. 

[Ulty]

7 hours ago, nic said:

I suspect the safe learning environment discussion for that day was about  providing it for all genders. Genders evolved to biological sex and that is when the professor said there are only two sexes. I suspect this didn't start as a discussion of biology. 

 

The student that organized the petition was not even in the class the first day this discussion happened. That student purposefully brought the same discussion up the next time the class met. How do we know that wasn't the heated discussion? That student obviously came to class to confront the professor based on what she heard. 

Yeah, I think there is a pretty good chance that this is all correct. I still believe the professor mismanaged the whole situation.

 

7 hours ago, nic said:

It would interesting to be a fly on the wall for the debrief between the professor and her boss.

I've been a part of some of these conversations before. The talking points probably included a lot of the stuff I mentioned in my previous post, about being an education instructor and not biology, and about being the adult in the room and managing your class. 

[Archy1221]

On 10/9/2022 at 12:08 PM, funhusker said:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

 

[funhusker]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

 

So you agree that sex isn’t binary.  Thanks for the link!

[Guy Chamberlin]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:23 AM, Dr. Strangelove said:

 

 

These moronic discussions, and there are a lot of them, are costing Democrats winnable elections during a time in which they risk not holding the Senate for DECADES after 2024. We're going to eventually face an 8-2 SCOTUS deficit because Democrats fought with themselves over who can raise the most money in California by trying to be as "inclusive" as possible bringing us to where we are today.

 

There's a ton of debatable and what should be fascinating discussions on this subject, but I believe the above paragraph is basically true. 

[Archy1221]

25 minutes ago, funhusker said:

So you agree that sex isn’t binary.  Thanks for the link!

If that’s your takeaway, have at it.  YW for the link.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:37 AM, Lorewarn said:

 

 

While I think your criticisms are wildly overblown (essentially a tiny but loud minority of young people and college students caring about something too much), I'll take going too far in the direction of something like differences in gender/sex than too far in the direction of a fascist authoritarian nation state, gun flagellation and ruining our planet for money any day.

 

While my heart is with you on this, my brain can't ignore that a compassionate yet abrupt redefinition of sex and gender is actually helping foster the fascist authoritarian nation state. 

 

It's not a tiny but loud minority. Trans rights is a gauntlet being thrown down to every politician, state government, and corporation that does business with that government. And because this is America 2022, there is no time for nuance. Even a hedge or caveat could get you hammered. 

 

And because we live in a world of false equivalencies and superficial messaging battles, "liberals want to destroy masculinity" has every bit as much weight or more than "the GOP wants to overthrow Democracy."  

[Guy Chamberlin]

I know this is the Censorship thread, and I know the difference between censorship and the court of public opinion. I know the difference between Dave Chappelle and a graduate level university course, too. 

 

But I still think both comedy and academia have a duty to let it fly. There's gotta be a forum to take tackle difficult discussions head on. I lean hard left, but I feel no sense of victory in a canceled appearance or silenced professor.  

[Dr. Strangelove]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

While my heart is with you on this, my brain can't ignore that a compassionate yet abrupt redefinition of sex and gender is actually helping foster the fascist authoritarian nation state. 

 

It's not a tiny but loud minority. Trans rights is a gauntlet being thrown down to every politician, state government, and corporation that does business with that government. And because this is America 2022, there is no time for nuance. Even a hedge or caveat could get you hammered. 

 

And because we live in a world of false equivalencies and superficial messaging battles, "liberals want to destroy masculinity" has every bit as much weight or more than "the GOP wants to overthrow Democracy."  

I think you're spot on. 

 

Semi-fascism is taking hold of the Republican Party - who hold systemic advantages in elections - while Democrats are fighting battles that don't help them compete in electoral races that matter. 

[funhusker]

3 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

If that’s your takeaway, have at it.  YW for the link.  

What else were you trying to add to the discussion?

[funhusker]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

While my heart is with you on this, my brain can't ignore that a compassionate yet abrupt redefinition of sex and gender is actually helping foster the fascist authoritarian nation state. 

 

It's not a tiny but loud minority. Trans rights is a gauntlet being thrown down to every politician, state government, and corporation that does business with that government. And because this is America 2022, there is no time for nuance. Even a hedge or caveat could get you hammered. 

 

And because we live in a world of false equivalencies and superficial messaging battles, "liberals want to destroy masculinity" has every bit as much weight or more than "the GOP wants to overthrow Democracy."  

God forbid genetic scientists make "discoveries" and people would like to see others be able to live lives how they wish as long as they aren't harming others.

 

If dimwits get their feelings hurt because science advances and the world isn't like Gramps told them, so be it.

 

I get the "political" reasoning.  A lot of Americans are dumb, selfish, and emotionally immature.  Politicians like Trump are successful because they "make sense" to a large section of the population.  I can understand the temptation for people running for office to "dumb things down".  But what good does that actually do any of us?

[Guy Chamberlin]

31 minutes ago, funhusker said:

God forbid genetic scientists make "discoveries" and people would like to see others be able to live lives how they wish as long as they aren't harming others.

 

If dimwits get their feelings hurt because science advances and the world isn't like Gramps told them, so be it.

 

I get the "political" reasoning.  A lot of Americans are dumb, selfish, and emotionally immature.  Politicians like Trump are successful because they "make sense" to a large section of the population.  I can understand the temptation for people running for office to "dumb things down".  But what good does that actually do any of us?

 

As with many things, there is a rich and productive middle ground where people who are poorly informed can become better informed, without being dismissed as dimwitted pawns in a class war that's being disguised as a culture war.

 

Science evolves, too. It has a long history of that. But America just doesn't roll with nuance. 

 

It's not about dumbing down. It's about needlessly demonizing. Sometimes the left does exactly what it abhors.

 

 

[funhusker]

20 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

As with many things, there is a rich and productive middle ground where people who are poorly informed can become better informed, without being dismissed as dimwitted pawns in a class war that's being disguised as a culture war.

 

Science evolves, too. It has a long history of that. But America just doesn't roll with nuance. 

 

It's not about dumbing down. It's about needlessly demonizing. Sometimes the left does exactly what it abhors.

 

 

But it's the "right" who is offended by the thought of non-binary sex.  They are then offensive to people who just want to live life they way they want and not bother anyone and/or want the world to be a more welcoming place.  (I dare say the left actually wants a "Christian" world in practice rather than proclamation.)

 

I'm not surprised that the "left" lashes out.  They aren't quite the pushovers sissies that the "right" assumes they are.  They then struggle with the pushback and claim the left is "triggered".  When it all started with some conservative actually being the one that was "triggered".

 

I'm just tired of it...

 

 

[Lorewarn]

6 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

While my heart is with you on this, my brain can't ignore that a compassionate yet abrupt redefinition of sex and gender is actually helping foster the fascist authoritarian nation state. 

 

It's not a tiny but loud minority. Trans rights is a gauntlet being thrown down to every politician, state government, and corporation that does business with that government. And because this is America 2022, there is no time for nuance. Even a hedge or caveat could get you hammered. 

 

And because we live in a world of false equivalencies and superficial messaging battles, "liberals want to destroy masculinity" has every bit as much weight or more than "the GOP wants to overthrow Democracy."  

 

I actually agree with all of this except that I would still maintain it is a tiny and loud minority, which doesn't dismiss the idea that there is a lot of power and weight to it.

 

 

6 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

But I still think both comedy and academia have a duty to let it fly. There's gotta be a forum to take tackle difficult discussions head on. I lean hard left, but I feel no sense of victory in a canceled appearance or silenced professor.  

 

100% agree. This is very much how I live in the real world and surround myself with friends and acquaintances I feel able to battle with re: ideas. I don't lean into it much on here because there seem to be very few people ready to explore in good faith, and the attempts get drowned out and pushed to previous pages too quickly by the trolls, ideologues and obstinate folks.