What is the future of the Republican Party?

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

So, nothing pertaining to Flynn being "found innocent."  Gotcha.

 

Super weird to throw that in here, though. It's an exhibit to a motion, not a ruling of innocence. 

 

Were you going to provide a link to this, or just this screen capture? Or maybe give us the entire filing, since you (apparently?) have access to it. 

 

But that's not going to happen, because it won't show what you're purporting it shows. Which is inherently a dishonest way to engage in a conversation. 

 

Here - anyone can check this. Search for the word "innocent" in this doc.

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/477373264/Read-Michael-Flynn-court-documents-released

DOJ dropped charges because Brady material that was finally shown to the defendant, showed defendant was innocent of the charges against him.  I’ve already linked to some do that evidence.  So yes, DOJ is saying he was innocent and shouldn’t have been charged. 

[Archy1221]

6 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Couldn't get it to load. 

 

Oh, ya I guess I change my mind.  Good evidence.   Based on that cartoon, he’s definitely guilty. 

[commando]

1 minute ago, Archy1221 said:

 he’s definitely guilty. 

you might get thrown out of the Q club of you keep saying stuff like this.

[knapplc]

Just now, Archy1221 said:

DOJ dropped charges because Brady material that was finally shown to the defendant, showed defendant was innocent of the charges against him.  I’ve already linked to some do that evidence.  So yes, DOJ is saying he was innocent and shouldn’t have been charged. 

 

Find the word "innocent" in any DOJ document in which Flynn's charges were dropped at the direction of disgraced former AG Billy Barr.

 

This is your word. But it does not exist in those documents. Barr's DOJ used an exceedingly weak pretense to drop the charge. trump subsequently pardoned him, and the judge then ended the case as moot, and blisteringly stated it was political and not sound law (I've provided these statements today). 

 

No one has found Flynn "innocent." He was pardoned by the crooked bloated cheeto and charges were dropped. None of that says he's "innocent." 

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

Find the word "innocent" in any DOJ document in which Flynn's charges were dropped at the direction of disgraced former AG Billy Barr.

 

This is your word. But it does not exist in those documents. Barr's DOJ used an exceedingly weak pretense to drop the charge. trump subsequently pardoned him, and the judge then ended the case as moot, and blisteringly stated it was political and not sound law (I've provided these statements today). 

 

No one has found Flynn "innocent." He was pardoned by the crooked bloated cheeto and charges were dropped. None of that says he's "innocent." 

Innocent is my word.   If you aren’t guilty you are innocent.  If they thought he was guilty they wouldn’t have dropped charges.  Remember, they didn’t drop these charges based on a technicality or timing mistake.  
 

Welp Charges were dropped in May 2020.  Judge got his parties in a wad, wouldn’t accept the decision, got crushed on an appeal to this, then won the En Banc review on a technicality because he hadn’t yet denied the DOJ wishes and handed down a sentence.  Had he done that he would have gotten crushed their too.  Sullivan is routinely mocked for this. 

 

 

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Archy1221 said:

If you aren’t guilty you are innocent.

 

Ummmm, no. But that's awesome. 

 

1 minute ago, Archy1221 said:

If they thought he was guilty they wouldn’t have dropped charges.

 

OR...

 

And hear me out here, because this is a novel concept that I don't think anyone has ever thought of before...

 

OR - maybe they pardoned him so he wouldn't turn over evidence against the bloated orange cheeto. Since this is a totally new concept I get to name it, and I'm going to name it a "cover up." They're "covering up" potential crime and liability! Great name, huh?

 

3 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Sullivan is routinely mocked for this.

 

Oooohhhh, where? I'd love to see the caliber of people who mock Sullivan for the Flynn case. It'd be a hoot! 

 

[Archy1221]

9 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

OR - maybe they pardoned him so he wouldn't turn over evidence against the bloated orange cheeto. Since this is a totally new concept I get to name it, and I'm going to name it a "cover up." They're "covering up" potential crime and liability! Great name, huh?

A). Ya and surely you have evidence to support this.  I mean it’s not like every single Democrat would love to look into and prove this so Trump could go to jail for trading pardons...OR...

 

B) your throwing BS against the wall again, making up false and unproven allegations, and will soon move on once you can’t prove them.     
I will go with option B. 

 

[Enhance]

12 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Innocent is my word.   If you aren’t guilty you are innocent.  If they thought he was guilty they wouldn’t have dropped charges.  

For veracity's sake, this is inaccurate

 

"Not guilty" does not mean "innocent." These are different terms. Not guilty means there wasn't enough evidence to prove guilt, whereas innocent means you did not commit the crime.

 

Additionally, charges can be dropped or not filed for any number of reasons, including a lack of evidence or the belief by the prosecutor that they'd be unable to get a conviction. Dropping charges does not equal believing someone is innocent or not guilty.

[knapplc]

8 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

A). Ya and surely you have evidence to support this.  I mean it’s not like every single Democrat would love to look into and prove this so Trump could go to jail for trading pardons...OR...

 

B) your throwing BS against the wall again, making up false and unproven allegations, and will soon move on once you can’t prove them.     
I will go with option B. 

 

 

Imma bookmark this and get back to you. 

[knapplc]

Lincoln County Republican Party votes to censure Sen. Ben Sasse

The Lincoln County Republican Party voted Sunday to join an effort to censure U.S. Sen. Ben Sasse.

 

Despite the snowy weather, 32 people attended Sunday’s meeting, according to Carol Friesen, Lincoln County GOP chair.

 

The censure resolution received unanimous approval, she said in an email.

 

The resolution criticizes the Republican senator for “dismissing the legitimate concerns” of Nebraska’s secretary of state, attorney general “and a huge majority of Republican voters” regarding allegations of fraud in November’s presidential election.

 

It also says he issued “statements inciting radical proposals and retributions against law-abiding elected senators,” referring to Sens. Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, who objected to certification of the Electoral College results. And it accuses Sasse of “failure to respect the high office of the President of the United States.”

 

Copies of the resolution will be sent to Sasse and to the Nebraska GOP office to state support for a similar resolution by the State Central Committee when it meets Saturday in Columbus.

 

Similar resolutions have been passed by Republicans in other counties, including Hitchcock, Scotts Bluff and Sarpy.

Sasse, in a video released Thursday, defended his statements about Trump as truthful.

 

“Personality cults aren’t conservative, conspiracy theories aren’t conservative, lying that an election has been stolen isn’t conservative, acting like politics is a religion isn’t conservative,” Sasse said.

 

 

 

[Archy1221]

31 minutes ago, Enhance said:

For veracity's sake, this is inaccurate—see comments below.  You are looking at the minutia of the argument.  In the real world, it’s entirely accurate because one is assumed innocent until proven guilty.  

 

"Not guilty" does not mean "innocent." These are different terms. Not guilty means there wasn't enough evidence to prove guilt, —which de facto means you are innocent since our system says innocent until proven guilty, and courts bring verdicts of not guilty or guilty in most instances. whereas innocent means you did not commit the crime.

 

Additionally, charges can be dropped or not filed for any number of reasons, including a lack of evidence or the belief by the prosecutor that they'd be unable to get a conviction. Dropping charges does not equal believing someone is innocent or not guilty. But dropped charges can equal DOJ believing someone is innocent 

https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-law-basics/defending-yourself-against-a-criminal-charge.html
 

1. Innocent Until Proven Guilty

One of the hallmarks of the American legal system is the presumption that you are innocent until proven guilty. This isn't just an ideal, it's an actual legal presumption, which means the judge and jury must assume you're innocent until they are shown otherwise. This is why a defendant can "plead the fifth," remain silent, and not offer a shred of evidence to support his or her claim of innocence and still prevail. It is the prosecutor's job to prove a defendant is guilty, not a defendant's job to prove that he or she is innocent. So what does a prosecutor have to show?

https://www.amacdonaldlaw.com/blog/2016/may/what-is-the-difference-between-innocent-and-not-/
 

WHAT IS INNOCENT?

When you've been charged of a crime, you are assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. By the end of a criminal trial, you will either be declared "guilty" or "not guilty." Technically, the court never declares someone "innocent" because it is not necessary to prove actual innocence in order to be acquitted. 

 

[Archy1221]

46 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Imma bookmark this and get back to you. 

Looking forward to seeing that evidence and then the subsequent Trump/Flynn pardon trial.  

[Enhance]

36 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-law-basics/defending-yourself-against-a-criminal-charge.html
 

1. Innocent Until Proven Guilty

One of the hallmarks of the American legal system is the presumption that you are innocent until proven guilty. This isn't just an ideal, it's an actual legal presumption, which means the judge and jury must assume you're innocent until they are shown otherwise. This is why a defendant can "plead the fifth," remain silent, and not offer a shred of evidence to support his or her claim of innocence and still prevail. It is the prosecutor's job to prove a defendant is guilty, not a defendant's job to prove that he or she is innocent. So what does a prosecutor have to show?

https://www.amacdonaldlaw.com/blog/2016/may/what-is-the-difference-between-innocent-and-not-/
 

WHAT IS INNOCENT?

When you've been charged of a crime, you are assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. By the end of a criminal trial, you will either be declared "guilty" or "not guilty." Technically, the court never declares someone "innocent" because it is not necessary to prove actual innocence in order to be acquitted. 

This isn't justifying your choice of words like you think it is. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a pre-trial and trial presumption. All it means is that the prosecution bears the burden of proof, not the accused.

 

"If you aren't guilty you are innocent" is legally inaccurate. From your same source:

 

Quote

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "INNOCENT" AND "NOT GUILTY"?
In short, "not guilty" is not the same as "innocent." Innocent means that a person did not commit the crime. Not guilty means that the prosecution could not prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that a person committed the crime. Therefore, the court does not pronounce someone as “innocent” but rather “not guilty”.

 

Judges and juries decide "guilty" or "not guilty", and even then, it doesn't necessarily mean someone is innocent.

 

Additionally, you are still wrong in your interpretation that 'they wouldn't have dropped the charges if they thought he was guilty.' Charges can be dropped for any number of reasons including a lack of evidence, a plea deal, the accused dying, etc.

[Archy1221]

20 minutes ago, Enhance said:

This isn't justifying your choice of words like you think it is. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a pre-trial and trial presumption. All it means is that the prosecution bears the burden of proof, not the accused.

 

"If you aren't guilty you are innocent" is legally inaccurate. From your same source:

 

 

Judges and juries decide "guilty" or "not guilty", and even then, it doesn't necessarily mean someone is innocent.

 

Additionally, you are still wrong in your interpretation that 'they wouldn't have dropped the charges if they thought he was guilty.' Charges can be dropped for any number of reasons including a lack of evidence, a plea deal, the accused dying, etc.

You are talking in circles yet it seems you don’t realize it.  
 

I guess For the rest of jury trials we will just assume everyone found not guilty probably did the crime since they were only declared not guilty and were not declared innocent 

 

Flynn didn’t die, plea deal had no bearing...though Brady material was finally furnished to the accused.  Had Flynn known about the material he is on record of saying he wouldn’t have plead to the charge.  DOJ decided they totally F’ed up and shouldn’t have investigated Flynn in the first place. 

 

let me ask you...how does one plead to charges initially in court?  What are the options?  Can I plead innocent?  If I didn’t do done thing, do I go to court to be found innocent or not guilty by the jury? Do I go on with the rest of my life with a stain of “well he was only found not guilty so he isn’t really innocent”
 

How about I just throw you a bone and I will say “presumed innocent” every time for now on.  Seems that should make all parties involved satisfied. 

[RedDenver]

8 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

You are talking in circles yet it seems you don’t realize it.  
 

I guess For the rest of jury trials we will just assume everyone found not guilty probably did the crime since they were only declared not guilty and were not declared innocent 

 

Flynn didn’t die, plea deal had no bearing...though Brady material was finally furnished to the accused.  Had Flynn known about the material he is on record of saying he wouldn’t have plead to the charge.  DOJ decided they totally F’ed up and shouldn’t have investigated Flynn in the first place. 

 

let me ask you...how does one plead to charges initially in court?  What are the options?  Can I plead innocent?  If I didn’t do done thing, do I go to court to be found innocent or not guilty by the jury? Do I go on with the rest of my life with a stain of “well he was only found not guilty so he isn’t really innocent”
 

How about I just throw you a bone and I will say “presumed innocent” every time for now on.  Seems that should make all parties involved satisfied. 

Accepting the pardon from Trump is considered to be an admission of guilt as noted by Judge Sullivan and SCOTUS precedence of Burdick v US.