BigRedBuster Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 45 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: https://innocenceproject.org/guilty-plea-campaign-announcement/ https://www.guiltypleaproblem.org/ from The Hill: Andrew McCarthy Powell and other champions of Flynn's cause have long claimed he did not lie to investigators -- a claim supported by the interviewing FBI agents, who concluded that Flynn had not made intentional misstatements, just failures of recollection, which are common. Instead, they maintain that Flynn was coerced into pleading guilty nearly a year later by special counsel Robert Mueller's team of hyper-aggressive prosecutors. Prosecutors did this, Powell argues, by threatening that if he refused to plead, they would prosecute his son. The son, also named Michael Flynn, worked in Gen. Flynn's private intelligence firm, which Team Mueller was scrutinizing over its alleged failure to register with the government as a foreign agent - a dubious allegation that was rarely handled as a criminal offense before Mueller's probe. After DOJ's revelations last Friday, Powell filed a submission with the court, asserting that the new disclosures demonstrate that Mueller's prosecutors not only pressured Flynn with the possibility of indicting his son; they also secretly assured Flynn's former counsel, the well-connected Washington firm of Covington & Burling (C&B), that Flynn's son would not be prosecuted if Flynn pleaded guilty. This "side deal" (a) was not explicitly memorialized in the formal plea agreement, (b) was not otherwise disclosed to the court as federal law requires, and (c) was designed to enable prosecutors to evade their due process obligations in future cases. https://www.cato.org/blog/two-things-nearly-everyone-gets-wrong-about-michael-flynn-case But Flynn continued to maintain his innocence, and his attorneys continued pressing for production of the 302 and other discovery—which the government continued to withhold. It has been reported, credibly in my judgment, that the stalemate was brought to a head when the SCO leaked to certain reporters that a guilty plea from Flynn would ensure that Flynn's son, who was under investigation as Flynn senior's business partner (and also happened to be the father of Flynn senior's four-month-old grandchild) would not be prosecuted. This is the sort of despicable tactic one associates with tyrants and dictators; but to our infinite discredit, it appears to have become a routine feature of American prosecutions as well. Last year, Flynn changed lawyers and filed a motion to withdraw his guilty plea, partly on the basis that SCO prosecutors improperly withheld from him evidence that should have been produced during the plea discussions in November 2017—including that 302 form. Why is the 302 such a big deal? Simply put, because it now appears the two FBI agents who conducted the interview with Flynn on which the subsequent false-statements charge was predicated at first reported to their superiors that they did not think Flynn had been deceitful during the interview and that any inaccurate responses to their questions were the result of a memory lapse, not a deliberate attempt to deceive. If that turns out to be true, then it seems plausible, indeed likely, that that sentiment is reflected in the still-missing original 302 that the SCO would have been obliged to produce during plea negotiations in November 2017. Among other things, the timely production of such a document to Flynn would not only have strengthened his resolve to continue fighting the charges against him, it would likely have made it all but impossible to convict him of those charges since intent to deceive is an element of the false-statements crime and must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury. The conversation started by you claiming Trump shouldn’t have fired him. Fact is, he admitted to lying and Trump fired him. Nothing else matters when analyzing the decision. Anything found out after that is meaningless in the discussion. Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Just now, Archy1221 said: Why don’t you acknowledge that the actual FBI agents (you know the experts with years of training) doing the investigation thought Flynn believed he was telling the truth. Then acknowledge that the DOJ withheld those 302’s, and then acknowledge that Flynn was fighting the case the whole time until Mueller’s group decided to go after Flynn’s son for something unless Flynn plead guilty to a SINGLE count of lying. It's irrelevant whether or not the FBI agents thought Flynn was telling the truth. Regardless of what they did or did not believe, Flynn lied, twice, and pleaded guilty to that. Further, at least one of those agents is on record as saying he was lying to protect his job with trump. Not exonerating. Whether or not trump's DOJ did or did not withhold 302s is irrelevant to the fact that Flynn lied, twice, and pleaded guilty to that. Flynn was not fighting the case "the whole time;" he accepted a plea deal because of impending prosecution for foreign lobbying. He did not decide to withdraw that plea for any other reason than because trump was going to pardon him. Since all that, he's gone full Qrazy and encouraged the failed insurrection on January 6th. And he's been banned from the twitter, along with his crackpot attorney Sydney Powell, for fomenting insurrection. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Speaking of Sydney Powell... These are just the whackiest of whackadoos. Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 13 minutes ago, knapplc said: It's irrelevant whether or not the FBI agents thought Flynn was telling the truth. Regardless of what they did or did not believe, Flynn lied, twice, and pleaded guilty to that. Further, at least one of those agents is on record as saying he was lying to protect his job with trump. Not exonerating. Whether or not trump's DOJ did or did not withhold 302s is irrelevant to the fact that Flynn lied, twice, and pleaded guilty to that. Flynn was not fighting the case "the whole time;" he accepted a plea deal because of impending prosecution for foreign lobbying. He did not decide to withdraw that plea for any other reason than because trump was going to pardon him. Since all that, he's gone full Qrazy and encouraged the failed insurrection on January 6th. And he's been banned from the twitter, along with his crackpot attorney Sydney Powell, for fomenting insurrection. Why do you keep going down this road? Either you don’t know, or you do know and continue to report false information. For anyone who wants to get the facts on the case and a peak at evidence presented 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: Why do you keep going down this road? Either you don’t know, or you do know and continue to report false information. For anyone who wants to get the facts on the case and a peak at evidence presented Here's some rando twitter anon's take on the Flynn case. Groovy. None of these facts are in dispute. Flynn lied, twice, and admitted to it. He entered a plea agreement with prosecutors to avoid further prosecution as an unregistered foreign agent. Then trump pardoned him in an over-reachingly sweeping pardon, which the presiding judge denounced as political in motivation. End of story. 2 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, knapplc said: He entered a plea agreement with prosecutors to avoid further prosecution as an unregistered foreign agent. That’s not truthful. You fail to disclose (which I actually did) that Flynn was proven to not be guilty of the crime he plead guilty to. It’s unfortunate you choose to ignore evidence literally put in front of you. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence/description-of-innocence-cases I wonder if @knapplc believes those people should have been executed because they admitted to crimes they didn’t commit? Does he believe this kind of thing actually happens or once they plead guilty, that’s it, nothing else matters even when evidence is then produced to show innocence....hmmm... 1 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: You fail to disclose (which I actually did) that Flynn was proven to not be guilty of the crime he plead guilty to. It’s unfortunate you choose to ignore evidence literally put in front of you. Flynn was not "proven" to be not guilty, he was pardoned by trump before ever being convicted or exonerated. trump even admitted so himself: Quote When asked about the plea at the time, Mr. Trump said, “I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the vice president and the F.B.I.” That was true, of course. Mr. Flynn did lie, as he admitted to under oath in a court of law — twice. He told investigators, falsely, that he had not communicated with Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States, about possible changes to American foreign policy toward Russia even before Mr. Trump took office. Last year Mr. Flynn asked the federal judge to throw out his conviction because, he claimed, the prosecutors and F.B.I. agents on his case had engaged in misconduct. The judge rejected his request, finding that the agents had not entrapped Mr. Flynn. And a report by the Justice Department’s inspector general found that the bureau had sufficient evidence to investigate Mr. Flynn as part of its inquiry into the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia, even as the report was sharply critical of the F.B.I.’s broader handling of that investigation. 10 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence/description-of-innocence-cases I wonder if @knapplc believes those people should have been executed because they admitted to crimes they didn’t commit? Does he believe this kind of thing actually happens or once they plead guilty, that’s it, nothing else matters even when evidence is then produced to show innocence....hmmm... This is a ridiculous false equivalence. 1 Link to comment
Born N Bled Red Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Archy1221 said: You will make a great fiction writer some day! Look forward to reading. BTW, how bout them 302’s? Personal attacks..LOL....that is your go to every time you are proven wrong yet don’t admit it. 1 1 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said: Personal attacks..LOL....that is your go to every time you are proven wrong yet don’t admit it. LOL. I didn’t claim you made a personnel attack 1 1 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 23 minutes ago, knapplc said: Flynn was not "proven" to be not guilty He was, you just don’t want to look at the court evidence which I showed directly to you. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Just now, Archy1221 said: He was, you just don’t want to look at the court evidence which I showed directly to you. Proven in a court of law comes with a legal decision. No such decision exonerating Flynn was handed down by any judge. 3 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 26 minutes ago, knapplc said: This is a ridiculous false equivalence Nope, you always say Flynn plead guilty so it doesn’t matter that he recanted his plea. 1 Link to comment
Born N Bled Red Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: LOL. I didn’t claim you made a personnel attack 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Archy1221 said: Nope, you always say Flynn plead guilty so it doesn’t matter that he recanted his plea. What! Flynn changing his plea when he found out trump was going to pardon him doesn't "prove" anything! I literally laughed out loud at that. Thanks for the humor. 1 Link to comment
commando Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 so apparently flynn is the future of the republican party? 1 1 Link to comment
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