BigRedBuster Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, TGHusker said: I for one will be changing my registration to Independent. I thought you did that a long time ago. DO IT....it's liberating. 1 Link to comment
Enhance Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 19 hours ago, Archy1221 said: If you aren’t guilty you are innocent. If they thought he was guilty they wouldn’t have dropped charges. 14 hours ago, Archy1221 said: From a legal sense one is innocent until proven guilty. Not too hard to understand. It is what the source I linked to agrees with. Your source also categorically points out the differences between innocence, guiltlessness, and the true meaning of "innocent until proven guilty." You're projecting a personal (and incorrect) interpretation of those legal terms into a conversation about legalities. Your inability to reconcile this is baffling. I'll quote your source again for veracity. Quote WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "INNOCENT" AND "NOT GUILTY"? In short, "not guilty" is not the same as "innocent." Innocent means that a person did not commit the crime. Not guilty means that the prosecution could not prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that a person committed the crime. Therefore, the court does not pronounce someone as “innocent” but rather “not guilty”. You said, and I quote, "If you aren't guilty you are innocent." Your source explicitly points out that inaccuracy of that statement. Why do you continue to persist with this line of thinking when it is wrong? Quote Even though it didn’t. In a court of law one is innocent until proven guilty. Again, kinda the backbone of our system. Can I plead innocent when I didn’t commit a crime I am accused of or do I have to plead not guilty? Officially? You have three options in a court. Guilty, not guilty and no contest. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a legal standard that means the prosecution is responsible for proving guilt to a judge/jury beyond a reasonable doubt. If a case goes to trial and a judge/jury renders a verdict, it is guilty or not guilty. Guiltlessness is inequivalent to innocence. Your source has additional resources to help explain this concept. 1 1 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, Enhance said: Officially? You have three options in a court. Guilty, not guilty and no contest. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a legal standard that means the prosecution is responsible for proving guilt to a judge/jury beyond a reasonable doubt. Thanks for finally acknowledging what we all seemed to know. So, once again, in the eyes of law, people are Presumed innocent until proven guilty. Once someone is charged with a crime and found not guilty, they should still be presumed innocent. Maybe that person did the crime and maybe they didn’t. Court of public opinion is different than court of law. Why this concept is beyond your grasp is astounding and irrational so no point continuing on. 1 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said: I thought you did that a long time ago. DO IT....it's liberating. I did it in attitude and perspective, just haven't done it physically. This last election I didn't vote for one GOP candidate Federal, state or local. And yes it is liberating. I didn't make the change so I could vote in a primary against the incumbents who were trump supporters. Link to comment
commando Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 hillary is innocent. OJ is innocent. obama is innocent. maxine walters is innocent. aliens who cross the border are innocent until found guilty in a court of law. Link to comment
Scarlet Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, TGHusker said: I did it in attitude and perspective, just haven't done it physically. This last election I didn't vote for one GOP candidate Federal, state or local. And yes it is liberating. I didn't make the change so I could vote in a primary against the incumbents who were trump supporters. I did it years ago. One thing to consider though is in a lot of places you can't vote in the primaries which just hands the party over to the Qrazies. I actually thought about rejoining just to vote against Trumpism in the primaries. I just can't get past the stench though. I'd be embarrassed if anyone found out I was an R 1 Link to comment
Enhance Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: Why this concept is beyond your grasp is astounding and irrational so no point continuing on. What's astounding is your continuance to avoid the following question/issue and it's the true crux of the discussion. It suggests you're not really interested in having an honest conversation, which is 100% unsurprising. I'm literally showing you that 1+1 = 2, and you're basically saying "no, I see 5, and you're being ridiculous to not see 5 too." 20 hours ago, Archy1221 said: If you aren’t guilty you are innocent. If they thought he was guilty they wouldn’t have dropped charges Your source, debunking this. Quote WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "INNOCENT" AND "NOT GUILTY"? In short, "not guilty" is not the same as "innocent." Innocent means that a person did not commit the crime. Not guilty means that the prosecution could not prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that a person committed the crime. Therefore, the court does not pronounce someone as “innocent” but rather “not guilty”. Why? If the answer is as simple as you choosing to ignore the definitions and applications of legal terminology in favor of your (incorrect) personal interpretation, then that would have saved us a lot of time. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, TGHusker said: This last election I didn't vote for one GOP candidate Federal, state or local. I believe 2020 was the first time that I voted completely non-GOP, too. The whole party is messed up right now. Link to comment
Omaha-Husker Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, TGHusker said: I did it in attitude and perspective, just haven't done it physically. This last election I didn't vote for one GOP candidate Federal, state or local. And yes it is liberating. I didn't make the change so I could vote in a primary against the incumbents who were trump supporters. My biggest problem with being registered independent is the primary issue. Nebraska rules get kind of confusing for indys. Here you can request a party ballot to participate in primaries by state law we are allowed to vote in senate and house primaries. The state Dems allow independents to vote for president as well, the state GOP does not. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Omaha-Husker said: My biggest problem with being registered independent is the primary issue. Nebraska rules get kind of confusing for indys. Here you can request a party ballot to participate in primaries by state law we are allowed to vote in senate and house primaries. The state Dems allow independents to vote for president as well, the state GOP does not. That is my issue as well. I believe that is the case here in Okla. I'll have to check - I believe Indeps can vote in the Dem primary here. I know they can't vote in the GOP primaries. Personally, I think party primaries should just be for party members as the party is choosing their own standard bearers. To me it would be like Wisc picking Nebraska's team captains. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, knapplc said: I believe 2020 was the first time that I voted completely non-GOP, too. The whole party is messed up right now. Yes there are a few bright lights but by far they are dimmed out by the dim wits that now run the party - apparently at all levels. We see people with voices of conscience like Liz Cheney being shut down their own state party. Ariz GOP has done the same thing and it has happened elsewhere. This is how a strong man Spoiler (do I need to hide the Hitler comparison) comes to power. Voices of conscience are silenced. Opposition is removed. And the unthinkable becomes reality. Such is what happened on Jan 6th. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 @Omaha-Husker @TGHusker I don't remember when Oklahoma's primary is, but in Nebraska, our primary vote for President is totally meaningless. It is completely, 100% decided before we even get to think about voting. So, me switching to independent had no affect on my ability to affect the Presidential primaries. Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, Enhance said: Quote WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "INNOCENT" AND "NOT GUILTY"? In short, "not guilty" is not the same as "innocent." Innocent means that a person did not commit the crime. Not guilty means that the prosecution could not prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that a person committed the crime. Therefore, the court does not pronounce someone as “innocent” but rather “not guilty”. Expand Why? If the answer is as simple as you choosing to ignore the definitions and applications of legal terminology in favor of your (incorrect) personal interpretation, then that would have saved us a lot of time. And therefore they are still presumed innocent. You are dying on hill that’s not worth dying on. presumed innocent——goes to trial——found not guilty (as you finally agreed one can’t be found innocent)——still legally presumed innocent. 1+1=2 Good Day. 2 Link to comment
Omaha-Husker Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: @Omaha-Husker @TGHusker I don't remember when Oklahoma's primary is, but in Nebraska, our primary vote for President is totally meaningless. It is completely, 100% decided before we even get to think about voting. So, me switching to independent had no affect on my ability to affect the Presidential primaries. That is true. Really the high number of NE politics being officially nonpartisan make it easier to be independent here too. Not near familiar enough with how other states do things at the local level to know if that is common or not. Link to comment
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