I serve an amazing God

[MLB 51]

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?

—Nietzsche,

[JJ Husker]

knapp- I cannot prove Jedi don't exist. Neither you nor I can prove God does or doesn't exist. But, there is no burden of proof that believers have to fulfill. If human understanding, the anecdotal evidence, some missing crucial scientific evidence, and logic lead us to different conclusions about the existence of a God, I have nothing more to offer.

 

There IS a burden of proof when it's asserted as fact. And when other people are made to live by the laws, rules, etc. that religious people push into the fabric of our society.

 

What has been asserted as fact? I do not have to provide proof for why I think, feel, or believe as I do. I have simply tried to explain why I myself do believe. If it doesn't satisfy others required levels of proof, that is not my problem. Seems like you might have some issues with religious beliefs being involved in public policy. I may or may not have some of the same concerns but that is another issue entirely. I would generally agree that it is wrong for elected officials to support legislation simply on the basis that is what their religion or their God tells them is right.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

You can't have a God that can intervene in your life at any one point in time, and still have free will. More simply, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

The two ideas vastly contradict one another.

 

That's true only if God physically forces his way into your life.

[JJ Husker]

You can't have a God that can intervene in your life at any one point in time, and still have free will. More simply, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

The two ideas vastly contradict one another.

 

I couldn't disagree more. We may be at an impasse on this one. Unless you have more to offer on why it is contradictory, I remain totally unconvinced that our free will is in anyway impeded by a God who may interact in our lives. If we could anticipate his actions or if we knew how he would respond, it might be different but I don't think it works that way. My example (as ludicrous as you may feel it is) When I was cured, I asked God to do it if it was his will to do it and with my belief that he was entirely capable of doing it if he wanted to. Yes or no, it doesn't affect my free will at all. If you disagree, please explain.

[Enhance]

You specifically say free will is not impeded by God, yet assert that he can intervene at any time. My point is a simple question - how can you have free will if, at any one point or time, God can make a decision for you and affect the outcome of some situation?

 

You can't. If I said I have power to affect your life at any point in time regardless of a choice you make, i'm controlling your free will. Even if I'm letting you make your own decisions every now and then, you still wouldn't know if I helped or not.

[HuskerShark]

Shark, or anyone else who wants to answer, do you believe in free will?

 

Yes. But I also think God has the ability to intervene. And yes, I do think they can co-exist.

 

Would you believe me if I said that even if you said no, you would still have free will?

 

I guess I don't really know what you mean by that exactly. Point is, of course we all have the free will to do whatever we please. If we didn't have free will and God controlled us like puppets on a string, there would be nothing but Christians on this earth. Obviously, that's not the case, so that alone says we have free will.

[HuskerShark]

You specifically say free will is not impeded by God, yet assert that he can intervene at any time. My point is a simple question - how can you have free will if, at any one point or time, God can make a decision for you and affect the outcome of some situation?

 

You can't. If I said I have power to affect your life at any point in time regardless of a choice you make, i'm controlling your free will. Even if I'm letting you make your own decisions every now and then, you still wouldn't know if I helped or not.

 

free will

 

 

Noun: The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

 

Hence, no fate = free will. And I don't believe in fate. That doesn't mean I don't think that God can change things if He desires to, but that doesn't impede on free will, and rarely does He actually do so IMO.

[HUSKER 37]

I serve an amazing God

 

You're lucky that the mods didn't move this to Roxy's food section.

 

I had a friend with kidney stones..I think I remember him also having the pain subside briefly after his attack..Definitely get it checked out!

 

God probably doesn't always get involved with our personal lives unless we let her..Really bad things happen to good people..The true measure of a person is how we react.

[jsneb83]

You specifically say free will is not impeded by God, yet assert that he can intervene at any time. My point is a simple question - how can you have free will if, at any one point or time, God can make a decision for you and affect the outcome of some situation?

 

You can't. If I said I have power to affect your life at any point in time regardless of a choice you make, i'm controlling your free will. Even if I'm letting you make your own decisions every now and then, you still wouldn't know if I helped or not.

 

free will

 

 

Noun: The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

 

Hence, no fate = free will. And I don't believe in fate. That doesn't mean I don't think that God can change things if He desires to, but that doesn't impede on free will, and rarely does He actually do so IMO.

Even if God intervenes, a person still has the ultimate choice in whether to believe in Him or not. It's sort of like a TV commercial, they try to get you to buy their product, but you still have the free will to decide whether to buy it or not.

[HUSKER 37]

If you're a parent with your kid in the grocery store, you have the "power" to buy them every bag of candy their heart desires. Just because you deny them doesn't make you a bad guy. Many times, it means you are a good parent.

 

But if I was that parent and my child had terminal cancer and was in such agonizing pain, and I had the power to cure him....I would cure him.

 

As would I.

 

As a parent I would..

 

As God? Maybe not

[308_Husker]

You specifically say free will is not impeded by God, yet assert that he can intervene at any time. My point is a simple question - how can you have free will if, at any one point or time, God can make a decision for you and affect the outcome of some situation?

 

You can't. If I said I have power to affect your life at any point in time regardless of a choice you make, i'm controlling your free will. Even if I'm letting you make your own decisions every now and then, you still wouldn't know if I helped or not.

 

free will

 

 

Noun: The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

 

Hence, no fate = free will. And I don't believe in fate. That doesn't mean I don't think that God can change things if He desires to, but that doesn't impede on free will, and rarely does He actually do so IMO.

 

We don't have free will according to the Christian faith. If God is an all knowing entity, then He knows what we have done, are doing, and will ever do in our lives. If He gives us free will, then He is not all knowing, therefore He is not perfect. If He IS all knowing, then He knows, before we are even born, that we will burn in hell for eternity. Why even put us here on earth in the first place? That's not something I can believe in.

[JJ Husker]

There are some bizarre ideas out there pertaining to what eliminates our free will. Still no one has answered how God acting in our lives or knowing our destiny affects our free will. Just because something may change your course, does not mean you have lost free will. If a burglar breaks into my home and robs me, has he affected my free will? If a a person out of the blue gives me a million dollars have they changed my free will? If a doctor cures some ailment of mine, does that mean I have lost my free will? If I'm lying in the road, bleeding to death, and no one helps me, is my free will eliminated? I don't see where any of those examples impact my free will so why does it matter if it happens to be God rather than someone else acting in our life?

[It'sNotAFakeID]

You specifically say free will is not impeded by God, yet assert that he can intervene at any time. My point is a simple question - how can you have free will if, at any one point or time, God can make a decision for you and affect the outcome of some situation?

 

You can't. If I said I have power to affect your life at any point in time regardless of a choice you make, i'm controlling your free will. Even if I'm letting you make your own decisions every now and then, you still wouldn't know if I helped or not.

 

free will

 

 

Noun: The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

 

Hence, no fate = free will. And I don't believe in fate. That doesn't mean I don't think that God can change things if He desires to, but that doesn't impede on free will, and rarely does He actually do so IMO.

 

We don't have free will according to the Christian faith. If God is an all knowing entity, then He knows what we have done, are doing, and will ever do in our lives. If He gives us free will, then He is not all knowing, therefore He is not perfect. If He IS all knowing, then He knows, before we are even born, that we will burn in hell for eternity. Why even put us here on earth in the first place? That's not something I can believe in.

 

Not necessarily true, even if God is all knowing--we are still responsible for the decisions we make and the beliefs we have. That God can not take responsibility for, our choices are our choices alone.

[The Dude]

I cannot prove Jedi don't exist. Neither you nor I can prove God does or doesn't exist. But, there is no burden of proof that believers have to fulfill. If human understanding, the anecdotal evidence, some missing crucial scientific evidence, and logic lead us to different conclusions about the existence of a God, I have nothing more to offer. It is our choice to believe as we see fit. You can say the burden of proof is the believers to bear but we both know that is not applicable in this discussion. The very nature of a God really prohibits any hard evidence that would meet any scientific criteria. I won't say your right or wrong and you probably should not say I am right or wrong but you are free to do either. I am aware of the problems associated with my beliefs and not being able to prove them to others. It's kind of funny. My story about being cured and my mother are the absolute truth (even though they have been referred to as only anecdotal evidence) but my default position on the OP's claim of being healed is much the same as others with mine. I assume some natural cause was more likely than God curing him. This from me who knows God could cure him. Kind of ironic huh? I think people who ask for proof of God's existence are exactly the same as those who claim he exists with no proof to offer. I think it is simply human nature to stick with what you already believe to be true until hard information is presented that makes you change your mind. It may not be fair to flip the question and ask for proof he doesn't exist but I do feel, in this issue, it is the same thing. Look at it this way, if it was possible to prove it, there would be no need to prove it. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make any noise? Prove it.

 

This is what I don't get. You said earlier in the thread you participate in these discussions in hopes that someone might be able to change your mind. Yet you cling to an illogical position in order to ensure your mind can't be changed. Just like unicorns, fairies, and goblins; god is an unfalsifiable hypothesis, so of course it can't be proven false. That's not a logical reason to believe in something. That line of reasoning is fine for ghost hunters, UFO enthusiasts, Squatchers, ect... but it should have no place in reasonable discussion.

 

If that's what you want to hang your hat on, fine. I have no problem with that. What I do take issue with is when people act like it's just as logical as being skeptical of something until evidence can be presented in support of it. It's not at all the same thing.

[Omaha-Husker]

Doesn't that definition of free will contradict the whole "God has a plan" mantra so often used to explain or console after awful events?