Cam Meredith: does he keep his starting position?

[Lyons in the Sea of Red.]

In the process of rewatching the game right now, Cam has got to go. We cant gift him a spot because hes been on the field more than most. He looks like it is his first time.

[zeWilbur]

Quite a few of our DE's get caught looking inside and Meredith does not have the wheels to overcome a mistake like that and still be able to chase someone to the corner. That being said, containment is NOT his job. In 2-gap the sun rises and sets with eating blockers and having a uniform push across the line. He does this pretty well. I would love to see him not get beat to the sidelines like everyone else but I would like to see our linebackers doing their jobs too. Full disclosure, last game was definitely an improvement in this regard albeit against Arkansas State.

 

Unfortunately, Eric Martin is a liability. His aggressive play is great but he runs himself out of the play and only eats a single blocker in doing so. He can get better about not getting too far upfield, etc. but I just don't think he is there right now. This, combined with the DT's not getting much push, leaves a gaping hole for a QB to run through when the coverage is good. Yes, the downside of a 2-gap is that you need a DT that can beat 2 guys consistently and we are lacking that. But "unleashing caveman"(or anybody really) is just not an option without significant scheme revisions.

 

And that is why Meredith will not lose his job.

[The Dude]

Quite a few of our DE's get caught looking inside and Meredith does not have the wheels to overcome a mistake like that and still be able to chase someone to the corner. That being said, containment is NOT his job. In 2-gap the sun rises and sets with eating blockers and having a uniform push across the line. He does this pretty well. I would love to see him not get beat to the sidelines like everyone else but I would like to see our linebackers doing their jobs too. Full disclosure, last game was definitely an improvement in this regard albeit against Arkansas State.

 

Unfortunately, Eric Martin is a liability. His aggressive play is great but he runs himself out of the play and only eats a single blocker in doing so. He can get better about not getting too far upfield, etc. but I just don't think he is there right now. This, combined with the DT's not getting much push, leaves a gaping hole for a QB to run through when the coverage is good. Yes, the downside of a 2-gap is that you need a DT that can beat 2 guys consistently and we are lacking that. But "unleashing caveman"(or anybody really) is just not an option without significant scheme revisions.

 

And that is why Meredith will not lose his job.

They're both liabilities, just in different ways.

 

I'll take the liability that actual makes plays and wreaks havoc in the back field, gets off his blocks and punishes opposing quarterbacks, over the guy who's far too slow and weak to be an effective defensive end in any scheme.

[Enhance]

I acknowledge I don't know a lot about defensive schemes - I only have general understanding of the concepts players are supposed to implement on a given play.

 

But, I think the crux of the issue is we don't consistently make plays with our front four, zeWilbur. We just don't. If we use defensive statistics from 2009 and 2010, we see that we went from giving up 2.9 YPC with Suh, to giving up 3.9 YPC without him, and we returned most of our linebacking corp sans Dillard. 2011 had a 4.0 YPC average too and we had one of the best linebackers in Nebraska history.

 

So, although Meredith may "eat blockers" and provide a "uniform push" on the line, and Martin may have over-pursuit issues, it's almost like we have to pick our poison. Either we have a guy who doesn't do anything bad but doesn't do anything great, or we have a guy who does great things while also making big mistakes. In a way, I prefer the latter. I'd rather we get beat and then have a big play over just give up little "big" plays over and over again as we fail to stop them.

 

And maybe this is more of a scheme issue than a player issue. Maybe Meredith would flourish in a different scheme. The one we're in right now doesn't seem to work unless we have a great DT with very good linebackers, and we don't have any of that, it appears.

[zeWilbur]

I acknowledge I don't know a lot about defensive schemes - I only have general understanding of the concepts players are supposed to implement on a given play.

 

But, I think the crux of the issue is we don't consistently make plays with our front four, zeWilbur. We just don't. If we use defensive statistics from 2009 and 2010, we see that we went from giving up 2.9 YPC with Suh, to giving up 3.9 YPC without him, and we returned most of our linebacking corp sans Dillard. 2011 had a 4.0 YPC average too and we had one of the best linebackers in Nebraska history.

 

So, although Meredith may "eat blockers" and provide a "uniform push" on the line, and Martin may have over-pursuit issues, it's almost like we have to pick our poison. Either we have a guy who doesn't do anything bad but doesn't do anything great, or we have a guy who does great things while also making big mistakes. In a way, I prefer the latter. I'd rather we get beat and then have a big play over just give up little "big" plays over and over again as we fail to stop them.

 

And maybe this is more of a scheme issue than a player issue. Maybe Meredith would flourish in a different scheme. The one we're in right now doesn't seem to work unless we have a great DT with very good linebackers, and we don't have any of that, it appears.

 

I doubt that any other scheme would help Meredith. I think he is more useful against running teams than spread teams and we have hit a bunch of the spread recently.

 

I understand the concern for the d-line and their lack of playmaking ability. I also get that pretty much everybody wants an aggressive/attacking defense. The reality is that it just isn't Bo's defense right now. The d-line has been a playing less aggressively to make sure and keep blockers off of our linebackers who have not been great at shedding blockers. I think this is the actual crux of the problem(David was GREAT but you need more than one decent LB at a time). If our recruiting pans out then we will have some darn good LBs over the next few years and can let the line be more aggressive. Until then I would not count on it. You are absolutely right that we are in a pick your poison state. Pelini would rather choose to make the offense do it right 10-15 times then risk the big play. I'll admit it can be very frustrating to watch at times.

Most of what I have seen indicates that teams are going to continue to put the ball in the flats and try to beat our guys in space. It looked like we started using safeties to spy the RBs rather than cover them with a LB so that could open up some more aggressive options. I know that would make some people on this board happy. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

Side note. Is it possible that 2009 is actually useless as a comparator? Was Suh so dominant that the numbers skewed to the point of anomaly?

[deedsker]

Martin needs to keep being the DE/LB hybrid. Let that kid continue to walk around the line and pick his attack. He is crazy enough to put his head down and explode people.

[HuskerfaninOkieland]

Another thought, what the hell happened to this guy? I remember see a young Cam sub in late '09 screeming off the edge and looking to destroy QB's. Now he gained 30 pounds and cant move. This guy was poorly developed.

No one was blocking him because Suh was being quadruple-teamed.

That doesn't explain his lack of speed now. In '09 he was flying to the ball; played with emotion; hit hard; made the tackles. Everything the fans were excited about in a DE, Cam had it. Now Cam barely goes thru the motions, is slow as hell, misses tackles and loses about 5 jocks each game. Something is not right about that guy. He should be the guy bringing the heat, a leader on the field, etc.

 

It's called the Cory McKeon effect...

Exactly. Can't tell you how many times I wanted to punch my tv watching him arm tackle then take credit for a "tackle" when his participation amounted to nothing more than helping guys up off the field.

[True2tRA]

Quite a few of our DE's get caught looking inside and Meredith does not have the wheels to overcome a mistake like that and still be able to chase someone to the corner. That being said, containment is NOT his job. In 2-gap the sun rises and sets with eating blockers and having a uniform push across the line. He does this pretty well. I would love to see him not get beat to the sidelines like everyone else but I would like to see our linebackers doing their jobs too. Full disclosure, last game was definitely an improvement in this regard albeit against Arkansas State.

 

Unfortunately, Eric Martin is a liability. His aggressive play is great but he runs himself out of the play and only eats a single blocker in doing so. He can get better about not getting too far upfield, etc. but I just don't think he is there right now. This, combined with the DT's not getting much push, leaves a gaping hole for a QB to run through when the coverage is good. Yes, the downside of a 2-gap is that you need a DT that can beat 2 guys consistently and we are lacking that. But "unleashing caveman"(or anybody really) is just not an option without significant scheme revisions.

 

And that is why Meredith will not lose his job.

They're both liabilities, just in different ways.

 

I'll take the liability that actual makes plays and wreaks havoc in the back field, gets off his blocks and punishes opposing quarterbacks, over the guy who's far too slow and weak to be an effective defensive end in any scheme.

How in the hell have any of you seen enough of Eric Martin at DE to call him a liability? Right now when he's out there, I can guarantee you it's mostly situational. The coaches are probably telling him to get the quarterback. He's simply doing as he's told, and doing it quite well. Don't think for a second that just because all you've seen from him is bull rush bad ass motha fucka, that he can't play the patty cake patty cake baker man scheme that Bo teaches too.

[admo]

I hope Cam revisits his old aggressive all-out style that made him a favorite. Somewhere it disappeared into the black-shirt hole. Kind of reminds me of Corey McKeon. They both bursted onto the scene playing wild and crazy and got after it. Then over time they both kind of regressed.

 

I still believe he can be a force. But that's up to him.

[MichiganDad3]

The scheme was different in 2009. The DL didn't line up 1 yard away from the LOS.

[zoogs]

Yeah, it's puzzling why they had him gain 30 lbs when he was effective before.

[Nebula]

I acknowledge I don't know a lot about defensive schemes - I only have general understanding of the concepts players are supposed to implement on a given play.

Don't mean to be on your jock today, but it's refreshing to see one of our most well informed posters lead off by acknowledging personal limitation. Which might be overly heavy on the humble side. Seems like you've got a pretty quality grasp of defensive football based on past posts to me. (Can I borrow some money? I got a sure thing in the 5th at Pimlico tomorrow...can't miss! You knew I'd eventually drop the other shoe. )

[Nebula]

It's called the Cory McKeon effect...

I humbly disagree my friend. I think Cam is trying, I really do. That LB who's name eludes me (not really) pushed a kid into the endzone rather than try and make a play.

 

Maybe the angriest I've ever been at one single play in as long as I can remember, and we've had some pretty rough plays to cull over for that title. I don't see Cam throwing in the towel, it's two things in my amatuer opinion

 

1.) With a bullet: He played next to some studs that caused havoc all across the line all by themselves. We just completely disoriented everything they threw at us. In the midst of that, Cam enjoyed a lot of neglect. He was the least of their concerns, and he took advantage.

 

2.) Less of an impact but still a very real aspect is...he's thick. I don't mean strong, muscular, explosive quick. I mean square bulk, waddle bulk. It sounds mean, and I don't want to bag on the kid. I swear, I've watched him, Stein, and Fischer like a hawk whenever he makes the rare appearance. ('Cause...I'm a sadist?) He IS trying...he just can't do anything. Years back when he first appeared he was a totally different body type. He had some get to him, could spring out of that first step and use that speed to get an angle that added to his power because he had his blocker at a bad angle. Then he'd get that guy off balance, and either directly pursue himself or get a rush pickup on him out of the backfield, freeing one of our barbarians to crash the gates in the middle of the LGCRG moat and murder whoever was unlucky to still have the ball. That Meredith disappeared a long time ago. Why, I don't know. But McKewon (said it, pfff) just quit. Laid down and quit. Cam is gamely playing horrible and still trying. There is some honor in that, but no award exists for most ineffective DE. He needs to play 10 snaps tops, to give a breather for the top backup.

[Enhance]

I acknowledge I don't know a lot about defensive schemes - I only have general understanding of the concepts players are supposed to implement on a given play.

Don't mean to be on your jock today, but it's refreshing to see one of our most well informed posters lead off by acknowledging personal limitation. Which might be overly heavy on the humble side. Seems like you've got a pretty quality grasp of defensive football based on past posts to me. (Can I borrow some money? I got a sure thing in the 5th at Pimlico tomorrow...can't miss! You knew I'd eventually drop the other shoe. )

I've been trying over the last few months to be more honest about my personality and knowledge. It's really easy to be on here and hide behind the anonymous veil - it allows you to pretty much say whatever you want to whoever you want and not have to worry about providing evidence for what you know (in most situations). I always respect people more when they can admit they don't know something. It's like when you ask someone "Have you seen X movie?" and they say "Oh yeah!", but when you talk about it, you realize they know nothing about it and just said yes to be included? It's a similar idea. I've also been trying to listen to people's arguments more and concede to them if they make a good point, or maybe even change my mind on a topic.

 

And to your final question, yes - how much do you need, and do you take cash?

[Enhance]

zeWilbur, as a discussion point, do you feel that Nebraska's talent level and scheme don't mesh well right now? That's pretty much how I feel. It seems like what we want to run can't be done by our player limitations. And as a further point, what areas on defense do you believe Nebraska significantly needs to improve in to be more successful? In your opinion, do you think Nebraska is going to be able to consistently get the players Pelini wants to run his defense, or that he should consider revamping the scheme?

 

I realize that's a lot of questions, but it seems you know a fair bit about defense, so I'm interested in your thoughts.