BigRedBuster Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Honestly, other than my local church having the name "Catholic Church" on the front, I don't view the Vatican and Pope as that much of an influence on my faith. If it had that big of direct influence, you wouldn't see any change in beliefs and practices from diocese to diocese. In reality, you do. Proof that there is a lot more local influence in the diocese than what some people want to think. i think a lot of people want to think that, and do. that is why these conversations are so tough. when we criticize the catholic church, everyone wants to take it personally. we are not criticizing your particular church or beliefs but the institution of the catholic church. I know and that is why I really don't have a problem with someone criticizing the Pope or parts of the management of the church. Maybe it's because I didn't belong to the church prior to Vatican 2, but, people need to distinctly distinguish the humans inside a certain religion and the actual religion itself. Absolutely every religion on the face of the Earth has examples throughout history of humans using it for bad things. Just because someone who claims to be "Christian" does a horrible thing doesn't mean Christianity is horrible. In fact, Christianity is a religion who from the beginning admits that the people in the religion are not perfect and they will sin. Perfection is not attainable even though that is the goal. 1 Link to comment
strigori Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 If yor complaint is that they maintain confidentiality then show me the association that does not. What the church did would be classified as obstruction of justice, destroying evidence, or witness intimidation. Which are felonies. This is not the same thing as not ratting someone out for smoking a joint. This is covering up felonies. Stated specifically to talk to the secular authorities, about known child abuse. In most states not reporting something like that is a crime in and of itself. I don't know many 'associations' that routinely do things like that which are not called the mafia. Link to comment
Notre Dame Joe Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 As always....when an organization like PSU or the Catholic church goes through something like this, they need to earn the respect of the public back. They need to go over board to do that and even then it takes a long time. I have absolutely no feelings either way for this Pope. I really didn't think he was that good of Pope in general and probably didn't do what was needed in this situation either. Honestly, other than my local church having the name "Catholic Church" on the front, I don't view the Vatican and Pope as that much of an influence on my faith. If it had that big of direct influence, you wouldn't see any change in beliefs and practices from diocese to diocese. In reality, you do. Proof that there is a lot more local influence in the diocese than what some people want to think. It's more of a question of when and how do you earn the respect back of the people. There is no quick fix or stunning pronouncement that will make it all better. The best thing to do when you've lost your way is go back to basics for a while. On institutions, the same cry is heard with every scandal, even the Lennay K hoax pulled on Te'o. Some people want to view it as one enormous cover up while others cry "Why didn't they go public sooner?" [ND learned from Te'o on Dec 26th]. The answer is you cannot call reporters at the first hint of bad news even if it looks 100% credible. Being in the public eye makes investigations chaotic and unproductive. And as a bonus you get can sued. So that is never going to change as long as there are institutions; religious or secular, non profit or for profit. When a threat arises, they order the underlings to keep their mouths shut. As for Rome and your church, it's a hierachical church and gets administered from the top down. But I was warned at ND; if your faith is based on other humans, regardless of their virtue or stature, your faith is not going to last very long. People are only human; you will eventually get burned. Link to comment
Notre Dame Joe Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 So who will be the next Pope? Bob Davie announced that he is no longer pursuing the opening in Vatican City. Link to comment
The Dude Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Popin' ain't easy. 2 Link to comment
sd'sker Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 i suppose being pope is something you can give up for lent. Link to comment
sd'sker Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 So who will be the next Pope? Bob Davie announced that he is no longer pursuing the opening in Vatican City. what about george o'leary? Link to comment
HuskerfaninOkieland Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 If yor complaint is that they maintain confidentiality then show me the association that does not. Catholic Church = PSU? Is PSU looking for a new def coord? Could work. Link to comment
Notre Dame Joe Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Typical Pope, Benedict did it right after National Signing Day, so Urban couldn't tell our commits that Brian Kelly was interviewing in Rome. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 The thing that keeps coming to me as I read this thread is John 8:7 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It wouls appear there are many who do not heed or believe in this advice. Plenty seem more than willing to toss that rock without hesitation. Link to comment
sd'sker Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 The thing that keeps coming to me as I read this thread is John 8:7 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It wouls appear there are many who do not heed or believe in this advice. Plenty seem more than willing to toss that rock without hesitation. just because someone has sinned does not preclude him/her from judging and criticizing a pedophile enabler. one who purports to be the moral authority, the mouth of god, for the world. not to mention that these sins are criminal offenses that threaten the welfare of children. but you could at least take your own advice before you implore others to: It was already obvious this guy is/was deranged but that manifesto, damn. He probably had some legitimate gripes but this is not how sane people deal with adversity. Haven't been watching any of it on TV but I hope they put about forty holes in this guy, ASAP. however, when i see the pope, i think of this passage: 3 Link to comment
Mavric Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 So who will be the next Pope? Bob Davie announced that he is no longer pursuing the opening in Vatican City. what about george o'leary? Pretty sure he has "Cardinal" on his resume. Link to comment
bennychico11 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 The thing that keeps coming to me as I read this thread is John 8:7 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It wouls appear there are many who do not heed or believe in this advice. Plenty seem more than willing to toss that rock without hesitation. Can I ask, what does that passage mean to you? Am I not allowed to ask for prosecution of pedophiles because I've done some lesser "sins" in my life too? But, yes...I have no problem refusing to follow or believe in that advice, however poetic it may seem out of context. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 sd'sker- I was not particularly referring to you. And I don't have any qualms with those who would question the actions of the institution or even specific people within the church. But there is no denying there is a list of usual suspects lined up here to cast aspertions on almost anything related to the Catholic religion. It simply appears to me that a few almost enjoy any opportunity that presents itself. I was merely commenting on that perceived situation. I hardly think it makes me a hypocrite to call for the death (one time) of the disturbed Dorner. BTW, not that you necessarily care what I think but I feel you do a pretty good job of fairly and pointedly criticizing specific persons and the institution of the church without unnecessarily bluring the line between those issues and Catholicism in general. Some others could follow your example and cause less anguish as a result. Sorry, but as a Catholic, it gets real old real quick when a select few just lie in wait for the next opportunity. Link to comment
GSG Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Popes, ranked: 1. John XXIII 2. Gregory I 3. Leo I 4. Peter 5. Gregory VII 6. Pius IX 7. John Paul II 8. Innocent I 9. Clement II 10. Innocent III 11. John Paul I 12. Clement XIII 13. Linus 14. Felix IV 15. Leo XII 16. Pelagius I 17. Boniface IV 18. Pius VI 19. Evaristus 20. Conon 21. Clement XIV 22. Pius VII 23. Urban I 24. John III 25. Nicholas V 26. Gregory XVI 27. Martin I 28. Callistus III 29. Silverius 30. Julius II 31. Marcellus I 32. Pius II 33. Clement I 34. Agatho 35. Clement V 36. Anacletus 37. Stephen II 38. Pius III 39. Sabinian 40. Eugene II 41. Benedict V 42. Pius XI 43. Paul II 44. Pelagius II 45. Sixtus I 46. Sergius I 47. Gregory XI 48. Boniface V 49. Leo XIII 50. John XI 51. Innocent VI 52. John IX 53. John IV 54. Clement VI 55. Eugene IV 56. Theodore I 57. Telesphorus 58. Leo VII 59. Benedict II 60. Benedict XII 61. Pius I 62. John V 63. Paschal 64. Sixtus IV 65. Pius X 66. Soter 67. John VI 68. Clement VIII 69. Clement XII 70. Gregory XIV 71. Paul V 72. Benedict I 73. Leo XI 74. Urban VIII 75. Eleutherius 76. Stephen V 77. Honorius I 78. Gregory XV 79. John VII 80. Benedict XI 81. Gregory IV 82. Innocent X 83. Clement XI 84. Nicholas IV 85. Donus 86. Marinus II 87. John XXII 88. Zachary 89. Urban VII 90. Alexander I 91. Sixtus V 92. Agapetus II 93. Victor I 94. Pius V 95. Paul VI 96. Eugene III 97. Symmachus 98. Zephyrinus 99. Honorius III 100. Honorius IV 101. Hormisdas 102. Clement XIII 103. Pius IV 104. Benedict XIV 105. John I 106. Martin IV 107. Hilarius 108. Adrian I 109. Leo III 110. Sylvester III 111. Benedict XV 112. Adrian VI 113. Callistus I 114. John XII 115. Felix III 116. Agapetus I 117. Clement VII 118. Stephen VIII 119. Vitalian 120. Alexander VII 121. Gregory XIII 122. Benedict XIII 123. Gregory III 124. Innocent XIII 124. Adeodatus 126. Alexander VIII 127. Leo II 128. Clement IX 129. Sixtus III 130. Lando 131. John XIX 132. Benedict VI 133. Julius III 134. Militades 135. John XIII 136. Sergius IV 137. Sisinnius 138. Valentine 139. Martin V 140. Severinus 141. Lucius I 142. (tie) Hyginus 142. (tie) Celestine V 144. Sylvester I 145. Marinus I 146. Celestine I 147. Honorius II 148. Benedict X 149. Felix I 150. Stephen IV 151. Stephen X 152. Stephen I 153. Lucius II 154. Leo VI 155. Alexander II 156. Victor II 157. John XXI 158. John XVIII 159. Clement X 160. Adrian II 161. John II 162. Celestine II 163. Gregory II 164. John VIII 165. Innocent XI 166. Innocent XII 167. Gregory VIII 168. Paul III 169. Cornelius 170. Benedict XVI 171. Benedict VIII 172. Dionysius 173. Celestine IV 174. Stephen VI 175. Anterus 176. Marcellus II 177. Boniface VI 178. Urban V 179. Paul IV 180. Sixtus II 181. Paul I 182. Damasus II 183. Eusebius 184. Nicholas II 185. Anicetus 186. Boniface I 187. Zosimus 188. Benedict VII 189. Eutychian 190. Leo VIII 191. Lucius III 192. Marcus 193. Celestine III 194. Boniface III 195. Romanus 196. Julius I 197. Nicholas I 198. Innocent IX 199. Liberius 200. Alexander III 201. Constantine 202. Victor III 203. Pius VII 204. Innocent II 205. Theodore II 206. Boniface II 207. Clement IV 208. Gregory V 209. Gregory X 210. Urban III 211. John XIV 212. Innocent V 213. Adrian III 214. Leo IX 215. Caius 216. Fabian 217. Anastasius III 218. Eugene I 219. Anastasius IV 220. Damasus 221. Urban IV 222. Formosus 223. Benedict IV 224. John X 225. Anastasius II 226. Adrian V 227. Anastasius I 228. Virgilius 229. John XV 230. Deusdedit 231. Benedict III 232. Urban II 233. Gelasius I 234. Paschal II 235. Stephen IX 236. Sylvester II 237. Nicholas III 238. Marcellinus 239. Stephen III 240. Leo IV 241. John XVII 242. Simplicius I 243. Siricius 244. Adrian IV 245. Gelasius II 246. Sergius II 247. Alexander IV 248. Pontain 249. Eugene II 250. Clement III 251. Leo V 252. Pius XII 253. Leo X 254. Gregory XII 255. Innocent XII 256. Boniface IX 257. Urban VI 258. Innocent VIII 259. Gregory VI 260. Innocent IV 261. Alexander VI 262. Boniface VIII 263. Gregory IX 264. Benedict IX 265. Sergius III 266. Stephen VI http://deadspin.com/5983495/popes-ranked Link to comment
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