OK sure, I'll be the first....

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Changing the terms of the debate

You said "I get it - you don't like Martinez. I agree with you that he has flaws. But no QB we've had in the past 50 years could lead this team to better results "

So you in essence said TM is on par with Gill, Frost and Frazier. Im guessing, no I KNOW ANY of those guys at the helm would have led us to "better results"

 

Does NU need more than a QB, goodness yes. No one was saying our problems are solved by a change in QB, but the QB is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

But to equate TM to those 3 (Gill, Frazier, Frost) is silly IMO, he isnt in the same solar system as any of them.

 

What are you talking about? You are clearly having a discussion with someone else. I didn't equate anyone to anyone.

 

You did, you said "No QB in the past 50 years could lead this team to better results"

By my recollection Gill, Frost and Frazier all played in the last 50 years. To say that none of them would have had "better results" than TM is ludicrous.

 

They wouldn't have. It always amuses me how much blame the QB gets for teams losing games. It's not like he can throw the ball to himself, or block for himself, or play defense so he doesn't have to force passes because he's down 14 points. Given the problems this team has, no other Husker "great" would've done better than Martinez. Equally? Maybe. Better? Not a chance.

[clone]

He sure as hell BLASTED THROUGH all their records though.......

So that has to tell you something......

Not saying he is better than those 3 by any means, but it is still quite an impressive feat.

 

Yes he has, and without the supporting cast they had around them.

Edited September 24, 2013 by zoogies
trimmed quote

[Guy Chamberlin]

If Tommie Frazier was playing with the current offensive line and backed by the current Husker defense, we would be discussing all the flaws in Tommie Frazier's game.

 

Scott Frost's mechanics and completion percentage would have us yearning for Taylor Martinez.

 

We had a team with Joe Ganz setting passing records while the defense gave up unprecedented yards and points, so been there, done that.

[clone]

well, where were you in the past when Bo put a hobbled TM in the game....that was stupid and stubborn on Pelini's part...really dumb.

 

 

Short answer? BO WANTS TO WIN! I don't think many can dispute his desire to win games.

 

When Bo put a hobbled TM in the game.... its because Bo thought that gave the team the best chance to win. Says a bit about the backups, doesn't it?

Edited September 24, 2013 by zoogies
trimmed quote

[jmfb]

So someones judgement cant be impaired by stubbornness/loyalty to prove a point? I hope not but am fearful that it may factor in a bit too much.

Sticking with the same defense more or less for this many seasons with the personnel we have havent been the right fit, kind of bears it out.

A hobbled TM in with almost no QB run threat, makes little sense to me. We cant continue to live by dinking and dunking with no QB run threat combined with all the turnovers and mistakes we make

The D cant be given terrible field position and no time to rest- we need CONSISTENCY and no turnovers. That is how this team wins ball games. Not going rapid pace herky jerky, feast or famine turnover machines.

[Blackshirt96]

Sorry Suh fan, but I cannot understand how anybody would think Ron Kellogg should start over Taylor Martinez or Tommy Armstrong in a spread OPTION offense. He runs slower than molasses in January.

 

 

TA threw off his back foot and broadcasted his throws. RKIII did not. TA had too much loft in his throws as well...RKIII did not.

But he was making touch throws and dropping them into a zone where his receivers can make the play. The deep throws to kenny bell, one shouldve been held on to, the other was broken up on a tremendous play by their cover guy. RKIII, that touchdown to Wullenwaber was incredible though. A 30 yard line shot with 100% accuracy. That was pretty.

I thought RKIII best throw was to a streaking Wullenwaber. He hit him in stride & hitting a kid in stride with that kinda speed is hard to do.

That's the one I'm speaking of.

The one I am talking about Wullenwaber did not score but got to about the 2yd line. It was a quick slant.

[Blackshirt96]

With the way both Tommy & Ron played there should be no more restriction on Taylor. We should have gained enough confidince in our backups that Taylor going down won't leave us with a question mark like it would have in the pryer two years.

[HUSKER FREAK]

With the way both Tommy & Ron played there should be no more restriction on Taylor. We should have gained enough confidince in our backups that Taylor going down won't leave us with a question mark like it would have in the pryer two years.

 

I agree with this. I think Taylor should start if healthy, but if he is hesitant or just not there during the game then we need to put Tommy in the game. Tommy has the look and qualities of someone who will be a very good QB but time will tell for sure. The only gripe I had on Tommy was he liked to stare down his receivers at times and against better competition it would hurt us.

[True2tRA]

With the way both Tommy & Ron played there should be no more restriction on Taylor. We should have gained enough confidince in our backups that Taylor going down won't leave us with a question mark like it would have in the pryer two years.

or prior?

[jmfb]

 

How about the NCAA record number of fumbes- were those all when NU was behind

Do we really need to rehash some early and often Ints and fumbles that took us out of games we could have been in?

BTW down by 7 points doesnt mean it's always time to panic and throw passes up for grabs, and some of those picks were right into the arms of a waiting defenders not even close plays

 

Just remember Abdullah was tied with TMart on fumbles lost. That means TMart isn't the only player you should be claling out.

Get back to me when Abdullah leads the NCAA in fumbles 3 years in a row

Abdullah has also played 1 more game than Martinez

By all means turnovers should be factored into why players start or dont- turnover margin is one of the main factors in deciding wins and losses

Im OK with a fumble if the guy is carrying high and tight- like Abdullah on most carries

 

What really bothers me is when players are careless and choose to run with the ball way away from their bodies or choose to go into contact really high, exposing the ball (like Martinez)

[RedPhoenix]

I see many haven't moved past the Denial stage of grief at this point.

 

Don't worry guys, we'll be here for you when you get to acceptance.

[ADS]

[Bowfin]

When Bo put a hobbled TM in the game.... its because Bo thought that gave the team the best chance to win. Says a bit about the backups, doesn't it?

 

No, it doesn't.

 

It says a bit about Bo's opinion about playing the backups vs. an injured Martinez. So only if you think Bo's opinion is infallible does that prove anything.

[walksalone]

What happens if when they have to face real competition, they are an abject failure?

 

That's not even a question to debate, since you have provided a scenario that leads to only the answer you want to hear.

 

Here, let me do that for YOU:

 

"What if we keep Martinez at starter, but he refuses to run and his passing mechanics regress to throwing off his back foot again while dropping his shoulder, and he starts locking onto receivers again while losing his cool in the pocket and refuses to pitch the ball to the I-back on options until they are pinned up against the sideline and he starts fumbling twice as much as he does now? Are you willing to keep Martinez as quarterback over the other two even if he singelhandedly loses EVERY game left in the season?

 

Which is a valid scenario, but on the other side of that either Armstrong or RKIII, due to lack of experience, start costing us big games, then what?

[walksalone]

I see many haven't moved past the Denial stage of grief at this point.

 

Don't worry guys, we'll be here for you when you get to acceptance.