Armstrong Leading the QB Race

[74Hunter]

 

 

 

 

TM never had an oline this good.

I don't think it's coincidence the offensive line has always looked better with Tommy in the pocket.

Because it isn't and it's been said a thousand times. Some just refuse to listen.

Even though the coaches, media reports and the numbers say otherwise.

You're right, some refuse to listen.

Coaches, media reports, and the numbers say its not a coincidence that Tommmy makes his offensive line look better?

Please. Give me some evidence of that.

You know....you can't just spew crap and expect people to swallow it.

No, the coaches and the media have been saying and reporting that this OL is the most athletic and deepest of the Pelini era. The last I checked the QB isn't a line position.

[74Hunter]

 

 

 

TM never had an oline this good.

 

I don't think it's coincidence the offensive line has always looked better with Tommy in the pocket.

Yes,Tommy has better footwork, I just wish that it would equal better results.

But, haven't we been hearing that this is the deepest, most athletic OL in the Pelini era? I know I have.

Serious question and I'm not coming at your from a confrontational tone, what didn't you like about Tommy's performance on Saturday? He a few bad passes, absolutely. The overthrow to Ameer was bad, the near interception on the pass to Alonzo was a bad decision. The crazy catch with Westerkamp I would call an below average decision (not bad) but the CB made a really good play on the ball. It happens.

 

I think the 52% (15/29) completion percentage is what sticks out. But if you break that down a little more, you realize it's not terrible.

 

To start, one of those incompletions was the spike at the end of the first half, so can we agree that shouldn't count in his evaluation? Brings it to 54%.

 

Next, he very decisively threw 5 passes out of bounds. One can argue that this is actually a positive play. Things that can NOT happen when you throw the ball away include: interception, sack for big loss, fumble and turnover. Effectively brings it to 65%.

 

Two other incompletions were bombs that missed Kenny Bell grasp by literally inches. Both flew over 60 yards in air and both hit both of Kenny's hands. These aren't completions, but the effect of the throw helps alleviate the box and allows Ameer to operate. If we complete the pass, it's great, but the effect on the defense is greater just by having that as an option.

 

Overall, Tommy's job isn't to complete 70% of passes, he isn't supposed to Christian Hackenburg. His job is to not turn the ball over and put the defense in bad spots and to keep the down and distance manageable. He had 0 turnovers and I think we had 1 occasions where we were 2nd and greater than 10 and that was due to a penalty. He did his job Saturday.

I didn't like the 52% completion percentage at all, considering the competition. Looking back at some of the highlights, many of those completions were underthrown or behind the receiver, and the receiver made a good play on them.

 

Fair enough about him throwing some balls away. Maybe on some of those throw aways, if he would have had better pocket presence and play making ability, he could have stepped up in the pocket and got a few yards instead of putting us in a hole.

 

Lastly, turnovers have been a huge problem, and Tommy had 2 INTs dropped. I can stomach him not being a playmaker if he makes good decisions and doesn't turn the ball over. But he pretty much single handedly lost the MSU game for us last year due to his turnovers.

 

If he plays the same against MSU as he did against FAU, we won't win.

[Landlord]

You're getting way ahead of yourself there. Can you name a stat where Armstrong is better than Martinez?

 

That was the problem with TM. Statistically, he looked great on paper. However, that never translated into real life greatness.

 

Heck, Armstrong is 8-1 as a starter. That's the only stat that matters and it's better than anything TM put up.

 

I'm sure you know TM started 9-1, right?

 

You just made my point.

 

 

lollin' @ dis

[Guy Chamberlin]

Tommy's 52% completion percentage didn't bother me at all.

 

He passes the eye test.

 

He's already a playmaker.

 

He was last year, too, under less than ideal circumstances.

 

He's got a better arm than Tommie Frazier and Scott Frost, and he's not far behind with his legs.

 

His footwork is already outstanding.

 

QB is about leadership, and Armstrong carried himself like a leader right out of the gate.

 

Why not enjoy him?

[BigRedBuster]

Tommy's 52% completion percentage didn't bother me at all.

 

I agree. Officially he had 51.7%. But, there were three drops that I can remember. If those were caught, that jumps to 62%.

 

He had a few bad passes. But, he was putting a lot of the balls where they needed to be.

[HuskerShark]

 

 

 

 

TM never had an oline this good.

I don't think it's coincidence the offensive line has always looked better with Tommy in the pocket.

Yes,Tommy has better footwork, I just wish that it would equal better results.

But, haven't we been hearing that this is the deepest, most athletic OL in the Pelini era? I know I have.

Serious question and I'm not coming at your from a confrontational tone, what didn't you like about Tommy's performance on Saturday? He a few bad passes, absolutely. The overthrow to Ameer was bad, the near interception on the pass to Alonzo was a bad decision. The crazy catch with Westerkamp I would call an below average decision (not bad) but the CB made a really good play on the ball. It happens.

 

I think the 52% (15/29) completion percentage is what sticks out. But if you break that down a little more, you realize it's not terrible.

 

To start, one of those incompletions was the spike at the end of the first half, so can we agree that shouldn't count in his evaluation? Brings it to 54%.

 

Next, he very decisively threw 5 passes out of bounds. One can argue that this is actually a positive play. Things that can NOT happen when you throw the ball away include: interception, sack for big loss, fumble and turnover. Effectively brings it to 65%.

 

Two other incompletions were bombs that missed Kenny Bell grasp by literally inches. Both flew over 60 yards in air and both hit both of Kenny's hands. These aren't completions, but the effect of the throw helps alleviate the box and allows Ameer to operate. If we complete the pass, it's great, but the effect on the defense is greater just by having that as an option.

 

Overall, Tommy's job isn't to complete 70% of passes, he isn't supposed to Christian Hackenburg. His job is to not turn the ball over and put the defense in bad spots and to keep the down and distance manageable. He had 0 turnovers and I think we had 1 occasions where we were 2nd and greater than 10 and that was due to a penalty. He did his job Saturday.

I didn't like the 52% completion percentage at all, considering the competition. Looking back at some of the highlights, many of those completions were underthrown or behind the receiver, and the receiver made a good play on them.

 

Fair enough about him throwing some balls away. Maybe on some of those throw aways, if he would have had better pocket presence and play making ability, he could have stepped up in the pocket and got a few yards instead of putting us in a hole.

 

Lastly, turnovers have been a huge problem, and Tommy had 2 INTs dropped. I can stomach him not being a playmaker if he makes good decisions and doesn't turn the ball over. But he pretty much single handedly lost the MSU game for us last year due to his turnovers.

 

If he plays the same against MSU as he did against FAU, we won't win.

 

 

Strong throwing QBs in tight situations put the ball where if his WR can't catch the ball, no one will. I thought that aside from the Westerkatch and the bad throw that landed right into the FAU LB's arms, Tommy did a good job at that. If you're reading the articles and quotes from Tommy, he admits that he'd like to have 4 or 5 of his throws back. (2 long throws to Kenny, the screen to Ameer, etc.)

 

I love that TA is his own toughest critic (aside from you I guess). He knows what he needs to improve upon, and I believe that he's doing the things he needs to be doing to improve upon them. Plus, he seems to be a lot more explosive of a runner than he was last year.

 

Give him time. He's got all the tools to be a really good QB before he's done here.

[Count 'Bility]

Personally, I always thought when you threw the ball away, albeit out of bounds and so on, it should be treated like a sacrafice in baseball. Where basically, the throw doesnt count. Cuz it's technically a pretty good play rather than forcing it into a pick or taking a sack, but still an incompletion. Doesnt count against your average, yet, doesnt help it either. Just a "meh" play. With that said, Armstrong made the obvious right choice under diress saturday by throwing away, what, half a dozen passes? Instead of forcing them like he was doing so many times last year? 2nd and ten is so much better than 2nd and 17 or 1st down for the the opponent.

[Ratt Mhule]

I didn't like the 52% completion percentage at all, considering the competition. Looking back at some of the highlights, many of those completions were underthrown or behind the receiver, and the receiver made a good play on them.

 

Fair enough about him throwing some balls away. Maybe on some of those throw aways, if he would have had better pocket presence and play making ability, he could have stepped up in the pocket and got a few yards instead of putting us in a hole.

 

Lastly, turnovers have been a huge problem, and Tommy had 2 INTs dropped. I can stomach him not being a playmaker if he makes good decisions and doesn't turn the ball over. But he pretty much single handedly lost the MSU game for us last year due to his turnovers.

 

If he plays the same against MSU as he did against FAU, we won't win.

 

[74Hunter]

 

I didn't like the 52% completion percentage at all, considering the competition. Looking back at some of the highlights, many of those completions were underthrown or behind the receiver, and the receiver made a good play on them.

Fair enough about him throwing some balls away. Maybe on some of those throw aways, if he would have had better pocket presence and play making ability, he could have stepped up in the pocket and got a few yards instead of putting us in a hole.

Lastly, turnovers have been a huge problem, and Tommy had 2 INTs dropped. I can stomach him not being a playmaker if he makes good decisions and doesn't turn the ball over. But he pretty much single handedly lost the MSU game for us last year due to his turnovers.

If he plays the same against MSU as he did against FAU, we won't win.

 

Iirc, didn't he have at least 3 turnovers? I remember him dropping one ball around our 5 yard line which led to a MSU TD, and he had that bad pitch to Newby pin the first series. I thought that there may have been one more, don't recall though.

[Ratt Mhule]

 

 

I didn't like the 52% completion percentage at all, considering the competition. Looking back at some of the highlights, many of those completions were underthrown or behind the receiver, and the receiver made a good play on them.

Fair enough about him throwing some balls away. Maybe on some of those throw aways, if he would have had better pocket presence and play making ability, he could have stepped up in the pocket and got a few yards instead of putting us in a hole.

Lastly, turnovers have been a huge problem, and Tommy had 2 INTs dropped. I can stomach him not being a playmaker if he makes good decisions and doesn't turn the ball over. But he pretty much single handedly lost the MSU game for us last year due to his turnovers.

If he plays the same against MSU as he did against FAU, we won't win.

Iirc, didn't he have at least 3 turnovers? I remember him dropping one ball around our 5 yard line which led to a MSU TD, and he had that bad pitch to Newby pin the first series. I thought that there may have been one more, don't recall though.

 

It as a good pitch, Newby just flat out dropped it. He threw an interception that Bell slipped and fell down. Cant put that on him. He did fumble twice. One was an exchange between him and center, sometimes its on the QB, sometimes its on the center. Hard to tell with that. But he did not single handedly almost lose that game for us. Far from it.

[whateveritis1224]

 

 

 

I didn't like the 52% completion percentage at all, considering the competition. Looking back at some of the highlights, many of those completions were underthrown or behind the receiver, and the receiver made a good play on them.

Fair enough about him throwing some balls away. Maybe on some of those throw aways, if he would have had better pocket presence and play making ability, he could have stepped up in the pocket and got a few yards instead of putting us in a hole.

Lastly, turnovers have been a huge problem, and Tommy had 2 INTs dropped. I can stomach him not being a playmaker if he makes good decisions and doesn't turn the ball over. But he pretty much single handedly lost the MSU game for us last year due to his turnovers.

If he plays the same against MSU as he did against FAU, we won't win.

Iirc, didn't he have at least 3 turnovers? I remember him dropping one ball around our 5 yard line which led to a MSU TD, and he had that bad pitch to Newby pin the first series. I thought that there may have been one more, don't recall though.

 

It as a good pitch, Newby just flat out dropped it. He threw an interception that Bell slipped and fell down. Cant put that on him. He did fumble twice. One was an exchange between him and center, sometimes its on the QB, sometimes its on the center. Hard to tell with that. But he did not single handedly almost lose that game for us. Far from it.

 

The Int was Armstrong throwing outside and Bell going inside, a misread by Armstrong because he threw it directly to the DB. Bell slipped and fell because he tried to reach back to grab or at least touch the pass.

[74Hunter]

 

 

 

I didn't like the 52% completion percentage at all, considering the competition. Looking back at some of the highlights, many of those completions were underthrown or behind the receiver, and the receiver made a good play on them.

Fair enough about him throwing some balls away. Maybe on some of those throw aways, if he would have had better pocket presence and play making ability, he could have stepped up in the pocket and got a few yards instead of putting us in a hole.

Lastly, turnovers have been a huge problem, and Tommy had 2 INTs dropped. I can stomach him not being a playmaker if he makes good decisions and doesn't turn the ball over. But he pretty much single handedly lost the MSU game for us last year due to his turnovers.

If he plays the same against MSU as he did against FAU, we won't win.

 

Iirc, didn't he have at least 3 turnovers? I remember him dropping one ball around our 5 yard line which led to a MSU TD, and he had that bad pitch to Newby pin the first series. I thought that there may have been one more, don't recall though.

It as a good pitch, Newby just flat out dropped it. He threw an interception that Bell slipped and fell down. Cant put that on him. He did fumble twice. One was an exchange between him and center, sometimes its on the QB, sometimes its on the center. Hard to tell with that. But he did not single handedly almost lose that game for us. Far from it.

I just went and watched all the turn overs from that game. The pitch was high and behind Newby, Kenny didn't fall down, Tommy just threw behind him (a theme is reoccurring here) and the alleged snap exchange was difficult to see, but Tommy had the ball in his hands (right on his hip) but didn't secure the ball. He was bumped by the pulling guard and dropped the ball.

 

So, it was worse than I thought.

[Ratt Mhule]

 

 

 

 

I didn't like the 52% completion percentage at all, considering the competition. Looking back at some of the highlights, many of those completions were underthrown or behind the receiver, and the receiver made a good play on them.

Fair enough about him throwing some balls away. Maybe on some of those throw aways, if he would have had better pocket presence and play making ability, he could have stepped up in the pocket and got a few yards instead of putting us in a hole.

Lastly, turnovers have been a huge problem, and Tommy had 2 INTs dropped. I can stomach him not being a playmaker if he makes good decisions and doesn't turn the ball over. But he pretty much single handedly lost the MSU game for us last year due to his turnovers.

If he plays the same against MSU as he did against FAU, we won't win.

Iirc, didn't he have at least 3 turnovers? I remember him dropping one ball around our 5 yard line which led to a MSU TD, and he had that bad pitch to Newby pin the first series. I thought that there may have been one more, don't recall though.

It as a good pitch, Newby just flat out dropped it. He threw an interception that Bell slipped and fell down. Cant put that on him. He did fumble twice. One was an exchange between him and center, sometimes its on the QB, sometimes its on the center. Hard to tell with that. But he did not single handedly almost lose that game for us. Far from it.

I just went and watched all the turn overs from that game. The pitch was high and behind Newby, Kenny didn't fall down, Tommy just threw behind him (a theme is reoccurring here) and the alleged snap exchange was difficult to see, but Tommy had the ball in his hands (right on his hip) but didn't secure the ball. He was bumped by the pulling guard and dropped the ball.

 

So, it was worse than I thought.

 

Of course it was worse than you thought, you don't like the guy. Everything is going to be bad in your eyes with Tommy.

 

You're really telling me that you don't think Newby should have handled that pitch?

[kchusker_chris]

 

So, it was worse than I thought.

 

 

...wow, and i didn't think it could get any worse for you.

[Count 'Bility]

The int to Bell was Armstrongs fault 100%. Bell correctly read zone and sat down. Armstrong thought man and threw the out.

 

The one fumble on the goal line is a perfect example of Beck putting our offense in a position to fail. Why are we calling a G play on our own goal line? It's stupid. It's basic football. But we do, and low and behold, our pulling lineman knocks the ball out of tommy's hand. LOL.

 

The other fumble right before half is hard to put on Tommy. Jesus. is it possible to give credit where credit is due. To Shaliq Calhoun for making a great play by ripping the ball out, when we were literally doing the safest thing possible aside from taking a knee.

 

The pitch to Newby? A little high. Gotta catch it though. And as seen int eh Gator Bowl, Newby had a tendancy to run first, and catch later. Shoulda rode Ameer 100% to start the game anyway.

 

And of course, Westerkamp literally dropping the ball while falling down on a punt return.

 

Those are the 5 turnovers. All in our own territory. 3 inside our own 20 I believe. Leading to a combined 27 points (2 fg, and 3 td).

 

Michigan St score 41 points. 7 of which were white flag points in garbage time. We scored 28 points, (7 of which were garbage time points). So call it 34-21 legit. They scored 27 of such literally off giving them the ball in golden territory. And their one drive that they did sustain actually took a converted fake field goal to continue for the TD.

 

Im not sure how many drive overall we had, but minus the final td drive, between the turnovers and 3 TD's, that's 8 already. When not turning the ball over, we were moving it at will. So based on this analysis, it's really hardpressed to say that taking care of the ball to the tune of 2 turnovers at worst, would not have resulted in a win that day. And it's not right to put that all on Tommy when looking at each turnover.