What is wrong with Christianity? And Christians?

[NUance]

There's something about Christianity that really seems bother some people. A number of people are downright hostile towards the topic of God and Christianity. Well, that got me to wondering. Why? What has Christianity, or Christian people, done that turns people off to the point of being hostile? I mean, I can understand why a person would zealously believe in something. I just find it odd that people would zealously *not* believe in something.

[funhusker]

We (Christians, Muslims, and insert other religious followers here) have always had groups among us that are judgemental, unfair, and unwilling to see and recognize change in the world. I believe it is a minority of our groups, but they still exist.

 

Kinda like Colorado fans, most Nebraska fans did not have a good experience at the games. Not because 30,000 fans were buttheads, but because 10-15 were buttheads....

[EbylHusker]

I don't qualify as a target of your post, however I do find it unfortunate when anyone surrenders their own judgement, reason, and logic to any single source. And religions happen to be a very large source for a great number of people.

 

Now, before some religious person here goes into spasms, I'm not saying that describes all religious people. So take a few breaths.

[Ulty]

There a lot of positive values that religion can bring to a society, particularly Christianity, with messages of love, forgiveness, salvation, etc. But sometimes the religious become too self-righteous and twist the positive potential of their faith into something that can be used to oppress, harm, or discriminate. Sometimes religious values are used to cover up or rationalize hatred, greed, and violence. Often religion is used as a form of social control as opposed to being used for universal love and compassion.

 

I would bet that even the atheists among us can recognize the positive values that religion can bring, but the negatives also tend to stick out and appear to be hypocritical. On top of it, the religiously devout tend to think that their own interpretation is the only possible truth, even though everyone has their own definition of spirituality and can interpret the Bible (or sermons, or the voices in their head, or whatever) differently. A resistance to change their views, consider new evidence, and evolve in general creates a lot of conflict with those who do not see things the same way that the religiously zealous do.

 

Aside from that, Christ’s teachings were pretty groovy.

[Ulty]

[killer cacti]

 

 

Kinda on the same sentiment as that pic.

 

For some reason atheists and agnostics harshly put down Christians for "our stupid thoughts." I've never once met an atheist who didn't try to make me feel stupid for my beliefs.

[Landlord]

It's because most Christians are cafeteria Christians.

 

 

They go through line and there is a large display set out before them (the Bible and all its teachings) and they walk through that line with their trays and they pick what they want and leave what they don't want. Or they let one individual (a pastor/minister/priest) decide for them what they should or shouldn't eat. The Bible and God's teachings shouldn't be something you can just push aside....it should be complete in scope with nothing left out/passed by.

 

In other words, Christians for the most part are absolute hypocrites. No one likes a hypocrite.

 

So Christians are like every other living being on the planet then. Got it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ghandi isn't really one to talk about the hypocrisy of a belief system. Dude was a perverted whacko that reinvented brahmacharya to allow for him to sleep with tons of young women that were married to other men (who weren't allowed to sleep with their wives).

 

 

 

 

 

There a lot of positive values that religion can bring to a society, particularly Christianity, with messages of love, forgiveness, salvation, etc. But sometimes the religious become too self-righteous and twist the positive potential of their faith into something that can be used to oppress, harm, or discriminate. Sometimes religious values are used to cover up or rationalize hatred, greed, and violence. Often religion is used as a form of social control as opposed to being used for universal love and compassion.

 

I would bet that even the atheists among us can recognize the positive values that religion can bring, but the negatives also tend to stick out and appear to be hypocritical. On top of it, the religiously devout tend to think that their own interpretation is the only possible truth, even though everyone has their own definition of spirituality and can interpret the Bible (or sermons, or the voices in their head, or whatever) differently. A resistance to change their views, consider new evidence, and evolve in general creates a lot of conflict with those who do not see things the same way that the religiously zealous do.

 

Aside from that, Christ’s teachings were pretty groovy.

 

 

Again, all these things are true of any people group that have any kind of defined belief system, whether it be spiritual or intellectual or anything else.

 

 

 

In response to all of your posts, those arguments are not unique to Christians by any means. Yes plenty of Christians are inconsistent and insincere and all of them are hypocrites, but those that take it seriously and get it, for the most part, will acknowledge that hypocrisy, the same way that non-idiotic people from any tribe will hopefully be able to acknowledge that they're not all that hot sh#t.

 

It's funny Blitz says people don't like Christians because they are hypocrites, when Jesus himself pretty much told us that being a hypocrite is the entire point of the gospel by saying that the humbled will be exalted, and the man that prays, "Lord have mercy on me, a sinner." will be justified. Imperfect sinners redeemed by undeserved perfect grace. It's not so much that we claim we are holy, but that Jesus' blood has covered us and MADE us holy in God's sight.

 

Now, do some Christians, a lot of them/us, believe we are better than people based on our own 'good works'? Absolutely. But that's no different than anyone else.

[BigRedBuster]

As a Christian, I have many times been frustrated at the animosity towards my beliefs simply because I am Christian and....as someone said....almost any atheist I have ever had a conversation with, tries to act like I am one big idiot for believing what I believe.

 

HOWEVER......I also believe that this is caused in large part because of Christians and how they act. If Christians would be better representatives of their religion then much of that animosity would go away. Anyone who professes to be a Christian is an example and ambassador for Christianity to non-Christians. Man Christians have failed miserably at that and that causes a backlash from people who are not Christians.

[Landlord]

I will also say this.

 

 

 

It's much easier to make a statement then it is to have a conversation.

 

 

Again, with no distinction towards Christians specifically, anyone that has a bad experience or a less-than-neutral opinion of a group will find it very easy to decide that everyone in that group falls under the same statement, instead of having relations with people to know their individual hearts.

[NUance]

Wow, so many excellent, well thought out posts in just the first few minutes. (I'm going to quickly run out of +1s. Try to catch some of the deserving ones later.) Ulty, your post above, I agree wholeheartedly and could not have written that any better myself.

 

I suspect that all the problems with Christianity and Christian churches are due to the people, not God. Christianity casts a wide umbrella. A lot of groups and people crowd under that umbrella, claiming that their flavor of Christianity is the one true flavor. I think the true message should be one of love and peace. Unfortunately, it seems like there are a lot nefarious, selfish agendas mixed in with the message of love. And then there are the fringe, wackos--the Westboro Baptists of the world.

[NUance]

I will also say this.

 

 

 

It's much easier to make a statement then it is to have a conversation.

 

 

Again, with no distinction towards Christians specifically, anyone that has a bad experience or a less-than-neutral opinion of a group will find it very easy to decide that everyone in that group falls under the same statement, instead of having relations with people to know their individual hearts.

 

Yeah, that's the problem. It's easy to pick out the low hanging (rotten) fruit and label Christianity as such. But you can't point to the fallen minister who has an affair with a young girl, or to the Westboro Baptist Church, and say they are representative of what Jesus taught. If anything, people should look at what's wrong and try to avoid it or improve upon it. I wish I was better at doing that myself. (With myself. lol)

[knapplc]

Ulty and BlitzFirst really knocked it out of the park with the two linked posts. Could have ended the thread right after those two. Very good descriptions of why, outside in, Christians are sometimes viewed in a less-than-positive light.

 

From the inside out, I think it's often very easy to perceive a greater sense of persecution than actually exists. You don't have to go back too many years to find posts of mine zealously endorsing Christianity, and there were many times I felt "beaten up" because of my faith. The closer I got to realizing I no longer believed in God/Christianity/the Bible, the more angst-ridden my posts. I even apologized to husker_x for the vehemence with which I would argue with him in favor of Christianity.

 

The reality was, I knew then what I know now, I just didn't want to face it, and the fear of facing that truth made me extra sensitive to slights, real or perceived. It was the raw wound, constantly aching because it was being picked at by me and anyone else involved in these kinds of conversations.

 

I'm not saying that this thread or anyone posting in it is in this situation - I'm simply relating my experience.

[BigRedBuster]

NUance...

 

I equate it to how people feel about Muslims these days. I took a class one time on Islam and it was taught by a guy in Des Moines who was one of the Muslim leaders in the area. I grew to greatly respect the guy and his family. I have known various Muslims through out my life and I have never come away with the same feeling as when I see them in the news.

 

I am a firm believer that a minority of Muslims have hijacked the religion and turned it into something that is not good and use it for their own agendas. The same thing has happened to Christianity in some ways. It really is sad because it can be a beautiful religion built on love and peace. However, instead of Christians being good examples of how they believe they should live and spreading the word of God by being those good examples, they have turned around and point fingers at everyone else claiming THEY are all sinners and going to hell.

 

That is not what God or Jesus intended. It is not our job to judge everyone else. We are supposed to live our lives as Jesus wanted us to live. Through that we can be examples to others who are searching for answers on how to have peace within their own lives if they so choose to.

 

We are not here to condemn other people. But, that is the feeling many non-Christians come away with.

[NUance]

NUance...

 

I equate it to how people feel about Muslims these days. I took a class one time on Islam and it was taught by a guy in Des Moines who was one of the Muslim leaders in the area. I grew to greatly respect the guy and his family. I have known various Muslims through out my life and I have never come away with the same feeling as when I see them in the news.

 

I am a firm believer that a minority of Muslims have hijacked the religion and turned it into something that is not good and use it for their own agendas. The same thing has happened to Christianity in some ways. It really is sad because it can be a beautiful religion built on love and peace. However, instead of Christians being good examples of how they believe they should live and spreading the word of God by being those good examples, they have turned around and point fingers at everyone else claiming THEY are all sinners and going to hell.

 

That is not what God or Jesus intended. It is not our job to judge everyone else. We are supposed to live our lives as Jesus wanted us to live. Through that we can be examples to others who are searching for answers on how to have peace within their own lives if they so choose to.

 

We are not here to condemn other people. But, that is the feeling many non-Christians come away with.

 

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. Pretty much all the things wrong with Christianity, Christian churches and Christian people are due to straying from what God and Jesus intended, and taught. When I read your post I was just getting ready to post a list of my own of some of the more egregious events. Every single one of them is because of people straying from the word.

[NUance]

Here are a few things that have happened under the guise of Christianity that particularly bother me:

• The wars and persecutions practiced through history in the name of religion.
• Churches that are more interested in self propagation and revenue than worship
• Odd interpretations of the Bible and particular verses taken out of context to further an agenda
• Elevating people to the status of God. I’m sorry Catholics, but Mary is Jesus’ birth mother. She is not a deity.
• Fringe wacko sects who seek to draw attention to themselves, e.g., Westboro Baptist Church.
• Ministers who knowingly sin, e.g., the Jim & Tammy Bakker embezzlement and sex scandal.

All of these things give Christianity a bad name. None of these things are consistent with Jesus' teaching.