What is wrong with Christianity? And Christians?

[knapplc]

I echoed Landlord's "KC has found" phrase from the post immediately above the one you took ire to.

[NUance]

Well then, let me add another item to my list of things wrong with Christianity:

 

• The perception that a particular person is only Christian due to living in America, a predominantly Christian nation, rather than having found the gospel truth.

 

OTOH, maybe this isn't a problem with the Christians themselves . . .

[sd'sker]

it is quite the coincidence that many people find the prevailing religion, or the religion they were raised as, the true or correct religion.

 

but the reason christians may feel that people take issue with christianity is because it is the power structure in america with great influence. so of course people are going to challenge it more often.

[JJ Husker]

 

Here are a few things that have happened under the guise of Christianity that particularly bother me:

• Elevating people to the status of God. I’m sorry Catholics, but Mary is Jesus’ birth mother. She is not a deity.

NUance, I think you have been misinformed along the way about what the Catholic religion says/thinks/teaches about Mary. She is not a deity. She is not at the same level as Jesus or God. She is the mother of Christ and as such is worthy of being treated with respect and reverance. She can intercede for us, as all of the saints can, and that is why people pray to her. I don't have the "official" position sheet on Mary but had a priest explain it to me along the lines of, if we are to worship Jesus, how can treating his mother with extra respect and attention be viewed as a bad thing? Anyway that was the gist of it.

 

I too struggled with this misconception as I was raised Lutheran and didn't understand all the attention she seemed to garner from the Catholics. In some cases, Catholics may place a bit of an unhealthy emphasis on Mary imo and seem to treat her as some type of deity at the same level of God or Jesus. This is not what the church believes or teaches but rather some peoples practices/beliefs run amok.

[knapplc]

Mary and the Saints are human, and therefore no different than any other human. They are not gods to be prayed to. They do not have a seat at or near God's throne and will be standing amongst the other humans in Heaven in the afterlife. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible which says Mary is able to listen to prayers or intercede on the behalf of other humans.

 

The concept of praying to humans is what NUance is talking about. It most definitely does elevate Mary (and the Saints) to the status of gods.

[sd'sker]

i wonder why that is unique to catholicism?

[Landlord]

The reverence/respect for Mary isn't a bad thing, but the prayers to her and to other saints make me uneasy. A central element to why Jesus became carnate was to bridge the gap between man and God and to get rid of all mediation in exchange for a direct relationship through the Holy Spirit.

 

I'm not an expert on it but it doesn't seem to have good bearing to me.

[Excel]

i wonder why that is unique to catholicism?

 

Is it? I know some protestant denominations keep the Saints but certainly not like Catholics do and there's no praying to them.

[Landlord]

i wonder why that is unique to catholicism?

 

 

It's not. Eastern and Oriental Orthodox also believe in saintly intercession, and some sects of Judaism as well.

[sd'sker]

Is it? I know some protestant denominations keep the Saints but certainly not like Catholics do and there's no praying to them.

i wonder why that is unique to catholicism?

well, it seems to be one of the differences between christian denominations. so, i guess i am wondering why? why are catholics more interested in mary and the saints than other denominations?

[Dbqgolfer]

Here's Christ's answer to the OP's question. John 15:18-20 18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

[BigRedBuster]

Meh....I'm catholic and I'm not bothered too much by the Mary thing. The theory is that she isn't a God. She doesn't have the same powers as God...bla bla bla....but, she obviously is someone very special if God chose her to have her son. When people die they go to Heaven. Their souls don't die and they can still pray. Saying a Hale Mary, you aren't elevating her to God like. You are asking her to pray for you to God. If someone feels strength doing that and feels closer to God, then fine by me.

 

I never sit down and pray to Mary. I figure there is no need because I can pray directly to God himself so why bother with possible misinterpretation by Mary.

[Ulty]

I never sit down and pray to Mary. I figure there is no need because I can pray directly to God himself so why bother with possible misinterpretation by Mary.

 

But what if God is busy? Isn't Mary his secretary or something?

[It'sNotAFakeID]

 

 

If you had only just cited the likelihood or the statistics I doubt he would have had a problem.

 

But in fact you said that living in America is the reason he is a Christian. That's an unwarranted generalization.

 

 

If someone is offended by that statement they've got bigger problems than being generalized as "likely growing up Christian."

 

I'm not offended, I was just pointing out that surroundings may not always be the cause of someone's beliefs.

 

Also, "KC has found Christianity because he was born in a largely Christian country." is not quite "likely growing up Christian." It's all in the way you say it.

 

 

I don't believe anyone is genetically predisposed to any specific religion, but feel free to cite any articles that make a counterpoint.

 

That being said, everything outside of you is your surroundings. That includes your parents, who I believe said raised you to be a Christian. Had you been born in Israel, your parents would have most likely followed Judaism and would have raised you to follow the same religion. Had you been born in Saudi Arabia, your parents would have most likely followed Islam and would have raised you to follow the same religion. Had you been born in India, your parents would have most likely followed Hinduism and would have raised you to follow the same religion. And on and on and on.

 

Now there's a very key group of words that I think might be overlooked. There are a number of extenuating outside circumstances that can influence the religion you choose to follow. You mentioned that you studied a plethora of various religions and ultimately had to decide between Christianity and Buddhism. I'm thinking that something external--unbeknownst to you or otherwise--led you to desire to study those various religions. You ultimately decided on Christianity and that was likely a product of external influencers as well.

 

It's not something to be offended by: saying that, because you live in the United States, you are more likely--should you choose to follow a religion--to follow Christianity than any other religion.

[zoogs]

There's nothing wrong with Christians or Christianity. It's one of a number of hugely important religious movements in human history and uniquely tied to culture and society as we know them today. I'm critical of science denial and intolerance or divisiveness, which sometimes is done under the guise of religion, sometimes not.

 

KC, the point knapp is trying to make is that not everybody has much of a shake at open-ended options for religion. America is probably, as a whole, better than most. If you had been born in Iran, your truth likely would have ended up being quite different -- and then, so would that of your children. Luckily for you and them, you weren't -- but if you had been, alternate universe Iranian KC would probably feel the same way.