Gay marriage legal in all 50 states

[It'sNotAFakeID]

It's beyond me how anyone could ever deny someone the chance to be happy. I'm by no means the "well-rounded" Christian: I don't attend church on a weekly basis and heck I rarely pray, but if there's one message throughout the NT and throughout the church services that I have attended, it's that Jesus is an unconditional love and acceptance. There is one verse that I'd like to call to attention (and it may be from a different translation than your own, so bear with the slight differences).

 

James 2: 1-4

 

My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man "You stand there," or "Sit on the floor by my feet," have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

[zoogs]

There is an awful lot about the greek empire that I would rather not emulate including the ultimate failure of their empire.

Ancient Greece was never an "empire". At least, not until they were overcome by Phillip of Macedon, who I believe did see himself as Greek.

 

As far as culture goes, there was no failure. Greek culture conquered Rome. It endures today. Obviously that particular and odd tradition never passed down. But more to Enhance's point, it's entirely up to societies to decide what's OK and what's not. These days, we've let go of some ancient prejudices and I think it's a testament to America's strengths and diversity. For example, you can see why suspicions against "outsiders" of different races and religions necessarily served older, more homogeneous states. We're a beautiful different.

 

We live in very free and open times. It's not guaranteed to last. Women in Afghanistan up until the 1970s enjoyed a progression towards greater equality before fundamentalist religion prevailed in the form of the Taliban. It only takes a crisis, and maybe even less.

[Saunders]

I had someone ask me why I wasn't using the rainbow filter on facebook...

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

All I can offer is that it doesn't. Hopefully, you can understand.

 

You don't need to be religious to be human.

And, that's fine because that's your opinion and what the chemicals in your brain are telling you.

 

Being human doesn't require a higher power. Heck, scientifically we can look at our DNA and tell if we are human. How we deal with emotions doesn't make us human.

[BigRedBuster]

 

There is an awful lot about the greek empire that I would rather not emulate including the ultimate failure of their empire.

Ancient Greece was never an "empire". At least, not until they were overcome by Phillip of Macedon, who I believe did see himself as Greek.

 

As far as culture goes, there was no failure. Greek culture conquered Rome. It endures today. Obviously that particular and odd tradition never passed down. But more to Enhance's point, it's entirely up to societies to decide what's OK and what's not. These days, we've let go of some ancient prejudices and I think it's a testament to America's strengths and diversity. For example, you can see why suspicions against "outsiders" of different races and religions necessarily served older, more homogeneous states. We're a beautiful different.

 

We live in very free and open times. It's not guaranteed to last. Women in Afghanistan up until the 1970s enjoyed a progression towards greater equality before fundamentalist religion prevailed in the form of the Taliban. It only takes a crisis, and maybe even less.

 

There are definite periods that are called the Greek Empire by historians. Just google the phrase and one heck of a lot of information comes up.

[Enhance]

 

All I can offer is that it doesn't. Hopefully, you can understand.

 

You don't need to be religious to be human.

And, that's fine because that's your opinion and what the chemicals in your brain are telling you.

 

Being human doesn't require a higher power. Heck, scientifically we can look at our DNA and tell if we are human. How we deal with emotions doesn't make us human.

 

Not to get all existential, but I would argue how we deal with and respond to emotion is at the very foundation of humanity. Our greatest freedom in life is our ability to choose how we are going to respond to any situation.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

All I can offer is that it doesn't. Hopefully, you can understand.

 

You don't need to be religious to be human.

And, that's fine because that's your opinion and what the chemicals in your brain are telling you.

 

Being human doesn't require a higher power. Heck, scientifically we can look at our DNA and tell if we are human. How we deal with emotions doesn't make us human.

 

Not to get all existential, but I would argue how we deal with and respond to emotion is at the very foundation of humanity. Our greatest freedom in life is our ability to choose how we are going to respond to any situation.

 

What gives us that freedom? A dog has the freedom to choose to take a crap in the front yard, chase the car, growl at the neighbor's cat, bite the mail man...etc. He has total freedom of choice. Is he human?

 

The same chemicals work in his brain as in humans to make him respond in a certain way to stimulus.

[Enhance]

 

 

 

All I can offer is that it doesn't. Hopefully, you can understand.

 

You don't need to be religious to be human.

And, that's fine because that's your opinion and what the chemicals in your brain are telling you.

 

Being human doesn't require a higher power. Heck, scientifically we can look at our DNA and tell if we are human. How we deal with emotions doesn't make us human.

 

Not to get all existential, but I would argue how we deal with and respond to emotion is at the very foundation of humanity. Our greatest freedom in life is our ability to choose how we are going to respond to any situation.

 

What gives us that freedom? A dog has the freedom to choose to take a crap in the front yard, chase the car, growl at the neighbor's cat, bite the mail man...etc. He has total freedom of choice. Is he human?

 

The same chemicals work in his brain as in humans to make him respond in a certain way to stimulus.

 

Animals search for power and happiness like humans, but the fundamental difference between humans and animals is our ability to search for meaning. Only humans search for meaning. Unlike an animal, humans are no longer driven by instincts to do what they must do.

[BigRedBuster]

Interesting....

 

And, why do we search for that meaning? What makes us different than the dog just searching for power and happiness?

[Enhance]

In my opinion, it's our ability to search for meaning that makes us a different. An animal relies on instincts to make decisions and is unable to contemplate their meaning and what life is asking of them. It also my opinion that man shouldn't search for the meaning of life, but moreover, what life is asking of man. It is our own responsibility to determine what meaning exists for our own individual lives.

 

To me, this is why emotion is so important. A life devoid of emotion is no life at all. And while animals possess abilities to feel and even to love, they're still unable to comprehend these feelings on an existential level.

[zoogs]

^ I agree with Enhance here. To track back to the original conversation there, BRB, you made a series of points along the lines of "If we hold all this chemical science stuff to be true, then we must accept so-and-so."

 

I promise it is not as confounding as it seems. Religion may be a big part of some people's lives, and not to take away from that, but it's not required in order to have humanity. If anything, it is the other way around: our innate humanity and morality lead us to provide religion (or/and other systems) for ourselves. Yes, we're run by temporary bags of biological matter. No, that doesn't stop us from being human (in the full, not merely species classification, sense).

 

There is an awful lot about the greek empire that I would rather not emulate including the ultimate failure of their empire.

 

/

 

There are definite periods that are called the Greek Empire by historians. Just google the phrase and one heck of a lot of information comes up.

Greek culture can't be tied down to one contiguous political entity, a "The Greek Empire" that rose and fell. I don't think that would be an accurate portrayal of the history of the ancient Greek world. Not to the city-states and confederations of Classical Greece, not to the temporary Macedonian hegemony over all of Greece but Sparta, not to the Hellenistic period of Diadochi spheres and independent or league-affiliated Greek city-states and neighboring kingdoms.

 

Although, Enhance's point about sexual relations between older men and younger boys applies equally to the Romans, which do have that contiguous rise-and-fall you're looking for. And all it really shows is the change in norms over time, nothing more.

 

Greece and Roman left deep and lasting cultural legacies; we feel this today. Their ancient religions and customs aren't all practiced any longer, of course, but it's not been suggested. Nor would it be valid to associate those practices with their "fall"; the Romans inherited Greek culture and customs, and that Rome was quite different from the Christian Empire it had become by its fall in 476.

 

---

 

Anyway. This has taken a sort of oddly off-topic turn; on the original topic, BRB, I think we agree substantially, if not completely. And I've definitely enjoyed the conversation and reading your many posts throughout.

[BigRedBuster]

^ I agree with Enhance here. To track back to the original conversation there, BRB, you made a series of points along the lines of "If we hold all this chemical science stuff to be true, then we must accept so-and-so."

 

I promise it is not as confounding as it seems. Religion may be a big part of some people's lives, and not to take away from that, but it's not required in order to have humanity. If anything, it is the other way around: our innate humanity and morality lead us to provide religion (or/and other systems) for ourselves. Yes, we're run by temporary bags of biological matter. No, that doesn't stop us from being human (in the full, not merely species classification, sense).

 

There is an awful lot about the greek empire that I would rather not emulate including the ultimate failure of their empire.

 

/

 

There are definite periods that are called the Greek Empire by historians. Just google the phrase and one heck of a lot of information comes up.

Greek culture can't be tied down to one contiguous political entity, a "The Greek Empire" that rose and fell. I don't think that would be an accurate portrayal of the history of the ancient Greek world. Not to the city-states and confederations of Classical Greece, not to the temporary Macedonian hegemony over all of Greece but Sparta, not to the Hellenistic period of Diadochi spheres and independent or league-affiliated Greek city-states and neighboring kingdoms.

 

Although, Enhance's point about sexual relations between older men and younger boys applies equally to the Romans, which do have that contiguous rise-and-fall you're looking for. And all it really shows is the change in norms over time, nothing more.

 

Greece and Roman left deep and lasting cultural legacies; we feel this today. Their ancient religions and customs aren't all practiced any longer, of course, but it's not been suggested. Nor would it be valid to associate those practices with their "fall"; the Romans inherited Greek culture and customs, and that Rome was quite different from the Christian Empire it had become by its fall in 476.

 

---

 

Anyway. This has taken a sort of oddly off-topic turn; on the original topic, BRB, I think we agree substantially, if not completely. And I've definitely enjoyed the conversation and reading your many posts throughout.

 

I just want to make one final point. You mention religion. I am talking about a higher power. There is a big difference. Now, they can be connected but not necessarily. The connection between a higher power and religion is what we believe and feel. The sad thing is, the religion side of that equation is so often clouded by human crap. In fact, I wouldn't even use the word religion, i would use spirituality. I believe the word religion implies some sort of relationship with a human group that may or may not be what the higher power wants. I then believe the word spirituality implies an inner spirit or relationship with that higher power that is personal. Now, if done in the right frame of mind, that spirituality can be tied to a religion and be very powerful.

 

I believe that spirituality (which is connected to a higher power some how) is what gives us that ability to have freedom of thought, choosing and understanding what is right and wrong and....yes....the need or ability to contemplate our meaning in life. That higher power has given humans that spirit inside us to be different than the dog just trying to decide if he wants to chase the car or not.

 

Thanks for the conversation.

[zoogs]

You too, my friend!

 

I think to some extent we all are spiritual. It doesn't need to be thought of as some manifest higher power, but human consciousness itself is a pretty special higher plane. The nature of which we struggle to grasp, even as we experience it. And I've no idea what it's like for animals. How weird!

[knapplc]

A friend of mine is very spiritual. A devout Christian. He chides me on my lack of faith.

 

He's also gay.

[Landlord]

A friend of mine is very spiritual. A devout Christian. He chides me on my lack of faith.

 

He's also gay.

 

 

Is he chaste? Just out of curiosity.