Riley Shelf Life

[jsneb83]

 

MSU 5 years before Saban

8-3-1

3-8

5-6

6-6

5-6

 

MSU 5 years after Saban

5-6

7-5

4-8

8-5

5-7

 

The 5 years before Saban, Saban's tenure, and the 5 years after Saban all pretty much look the same.

 

Is Saban a great coach? Yes. But using MSU to prop up that argument isn't the best way to do it.

Ok so 3 losing seasons before Saban in 5 years- NONE under Saban

3 losing seasons after Saban in 5 years- NONE under Saban

and a TEN win Season- nobody did that the 5 years before or after. With wins over Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Oregon and Florida that year. Pretty great season for MSU

Very nice run

 

He also went 0-3 in the bowl games, losing by a combined 85 points.

[jmfb]

His last team- the last year of the 5 year plan team beat Florida in the Outback Bowl

When you take over a weak program it's one step at a time and at the end of the day, his teams won consistently

Had he stayed they would have been a consistent Big 10 Dynasty, just like he did at his other stops

At LSU and Bama

[jmfb]

Using Saban as an example against Riley is pointless. He had average to good success at MSU, created a Dynasty at Bammy.

 

Riley had average to good succes at Oregon State, maybe he creates his own dynasty at DONU.

Well Saban never had a losing season

Riley did

Saban had a 10 win season at MSU

Riley didn't at OSU

Saban turned around a bad LSU program and won MANY League Championships and even a National Title- you forgot about LSU I guess

Riley Hasn't won anything

And Saban did the very same thing at BAMA

 

 

Very little in common other than both coached at "weak" places

But Saban turned it around- no losing seasons and left it on "top" with a 10 win season

The next guy up didn't do so well

The guy that took Rileys place did much better than Riley

So not exactly the same track record there

 

I hope Riley can make it work here, but his track record makes me very sceptical

[NUinID]

 

 

 

Sorry, was wrong about Lou Holtz, it was the jets not the patriots, and he had losing records at William and Mary, Minnesota, and South Carolina. He only had winning records at ND and Arkansas.

You were wrong about him again

He did really well at NC State- where he turned them into a consistent winner

WHen you take over bottom dwellers like LH did over and over again, you build the wins and competitiveness to the point where they are competitive and in MUCH better shape than when they started. He did that at W&M, Minny and SC and of course at ND, Arkansas and NC State as well. Had he stayed on at Minny, W&M ( why would he do that) or SC- they would have been consistent winners too.

 

At Minny he took over a 1 win team

2 years later then finish 7-5 and are just 3 snaps away from being 10-2 barely losing to Oklahoma, Ohio State and Michigan State

Quite a turnaround almost anyone would be very impressed with that

 

 

jmfb my whole point in my post was that you pick out 4 great coaches, and they are great coaches, I am not debating that and then say they won at every place the coached. I was pointing out that Lou had losing records at x and y locations.

 

The point was that you are always so smug and condescending about things. You think your opinion matters more than anyone's because you coach football. I coached FB for 22 years straight and my opinion is no better than anyone else. Lou Holtz was a great coach, but he did not have a winning record everywhere he coached.

 

Oh and you win I forgot to put NC State in my post. You are right!

 

Just stating the facts

Holtz did turnaround programs- HUGE turnarounds

No one would suggest any of his college coaching stints were failures in any sense of the word.

As to opinions anyone including my little girl can have one. The difference is my opinions on football are based on what I know about the game, hers are based on what team colors her mood and which mascots are more interesting and maybe her experience of watching 2-3 games on TV. Not sure those opinions are of the same value. Just like mine wouldn't have the same value of a Tom Osborne

 

 

You just proved my point by comparing everyone's opinion to a little girls.

[jmfb]

 

 

 

 

Sorry, was wrong about Lou Holtz, it was the jets not the patriots, and he had losing records at William and Mary, Minnesota, and South Carolina. He only had winning records at ND and Arkansas.

You were wrong about him again

He did really well at NC State- where he turned them into a consistent winner

WHen you take over bottom dwellers like LH did over and over again, you build the wins and competitiveness to the point where they are competitive and in MUCH better shape than when they started. He did that at W&M, Minny and SC and of course at ND, Arkansas and NC State as well. Had he stayed on at Minny, W&M ( why would he do that) or SC- they would have been consistent winners too.

 

At Minny he took over a 1 win team

2 years later then finish 7-5 and are just 3 snaps away from being 10-2 barely losing to Oklahoma, Ohio State and Michigan State

Quite a turnaround almost anyone would be very impressed with that

 

 

jmfb my whole point in my post was that you pick out 4 great coaches, and they are great coaches, I am not debating that and then say they won at every place the coached. I was pointing out that Lou had losing records at x and y locations.

 

The point was that you are always so smug and condescending about things. You think your opinion matters more than anyone's because you coach football. I coached FB for 22 years straight and my opinion is no better than anyone else. Lou Holtz was a great coach, but he did not have a winning record everywhere he coached.

 

Oh and you win I forgot to put NC State in my post. You are right!

 

Just stating the facts

Holtz did turnaround programs- HUGE turnarounds

No one would suggest any of his college coaching stints were failures in any sense of the word.

As to opinions anyone including my little girl can have one. The difference is my opinions on football are based on what I know about the game, hers are based on what team colors her mood and which mascots are more interesting and maybe her experience of watching 2-3 games on TV. Not sure those opinions are of the same value. Just like mine wouldn't have the same value of a Tom Osborne

 

 

You just proved my point by comparing everyone's opinion to a little girls.

 

Just using logic to demonstrate what everyone already knows

Osbornes opinion is better informed and better than mine

Person As may be better informed- based on more facts, understanding, better logic than Person B

Just demonstrating it so everyone can understand it in very simple terms

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, some are of more value than others.

For example I would take Damon Bennings opinion over everyones here as well as any columnist/reporter. Because he understands the game at a very detailed level, has the facts, spends time with the team, practices, gets insight from others attending, is former player. He has also been consistently right about almost all of what he has talked about. He lays out his facts and logic really well. So Im taking his opinions with a great degree of confidence. His opinion is more valueable than my own, foam finger guy or my daughter. Same goes for others.

If you feel that shoe fits you, that wasn't the intention, but go for it

It is what it is

Not everyone has the same football knowledge as a little girl, that wasn't how it was said. But that hasn't stopped you before.

[hskrfan4life]

Anyone remember Larry Coker? Miami's head coach in 2001 when they won the title and 2002 when they lost to Ohio State. What happened to him? Anyways, I'll give Riley 4 years before I start expecting big things. Unless he goes winless in the first two years then get rid of him!

[jsneb83]

His last team- the last year of the 5 year plan team beat Florida in the Outback Bowl

When you take over a weak program it's one step at a time and at the end of the day, his teams won consistently

Had he stayed they would have been a consistent Big 10 Dynasty, just like he did at his other stops

At LSU and Bama

You do know that Saban left to go to LSU before the bowl game, right? Bobby Williams coached the bowl game against Florida.

[Red Five]

This whole conversation is dumb. Everyone agrees that Riley <> Saban. But since I feel like playing along, let have some fun with numbers

 

 

Well Saban never had a losing season

Riley did

 

Saban had winning seasons 60% of the time at MSU

Riley had winning seasons 57% of the time at OSU

 

Saban had a 10 win season at MSU

Riley didn't at OSU

 

Riley had a 10 win season in 2006. (And technically, Saban only had a 9 win season since he left before the bowl game)

 

Riley won 9+ games 29% of the time at OSU

Saban won 9+ games 20% of the time at MSU

 

 

Saban turned around a bad LSU program and won MANY League Championships and even a National Title- you forgot about LSU I guess

 

MANY = 2 in this case.

 

 

The guy that took Rileys place did much better than Riley

Riley was at OSU 2 years before Erickson took over, not sure that is enough sample size to draw a conclusion.

 

Riley did much better than the guy he replaced at OSU. He won 8 games in 2 years, the guy before him won 13 in 6 years. In his 2nd year, he won 5 games at OSU for the first time in 27 years.

 

 

 

 

[jmfb]

 

His last team- the last year of the 5 year plan team beat Florida in the Outback Bowl

When you take over a weak program it's one step at a time and at the end of the day, his teams won consistently

Had he stayed they would have been a consistent Big 10 Dynasty, just like he did at his other stops

At LSU and Bama

You do know that Saban left to go to LSU before the bowl game, right? Bobby Williams coached the bowl game against Florida.

 

Of course

Sabans team

Same team that beat Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Oregon and Notre Dame that year

[Red Five]

AS

 

 

 

His last team- the last year of the 5 year plan team beat Florida in the Outback Bowl

When you take over a weak program it's one step at a time and at the end of the day, his teams won consistently

Had he stayed they would have been a consistent Big 10 Dynasty, just like he did at his other stops

At LSU and Bama

You do know that Saban left to go to LSU before the bowl game, right? Bobby Williams coached the bowl game against Florida.

 

Of course

Sabans team

Same team that beat Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Oregon and Notre Dame that year

 

And lost 52-28 to Purdue and 40-10 to Wisconsin.

[jmfb]

AS

 

 

 

His last team- the last year of the 5 year plan team beat Florida in the Outback Bowl

When you take over a weak program it's one step at a time and at the end of the day, his teams won consistently

Had he stayed they would have been a consistent Big 10 Dynasty, just like he did at his other stops

At LSU and Bama

You do know that Saban left to go to LSU before the bowl game, right? Bobby Williams coached the bowl game against Florida.

 

Of course

Sabans team

Same team that beat Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Oregon and Notre Dame that year

 

And lost 52-28 to Purdue and 40-10 to Wisconsin.

And the MSU fans were throwing the guy a parade for that season

What a great season 5 from where they came from

They would have been a dynasty had he decided to stay for less $$ and the cold weather

[Stumpy1]

 

AS

 

 

 

His last team- the last year of the 5 year plan team beat Florida in the Outback Bowl

When you take over a weak program it's one step at a time and at the end of the day, his teams won consistently

Had he stayed they would have been a consistent Big 10 Dynasty, just like he did at his other stops

At LSU and Bama

You do know that Saban left to go to LSU before the bowl game, right? Bobby Williams coached the bowl game against Florida.

 

Of course

Sabans team

Same team that beat Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Oregon and Notre Dame that year

 

And lost 52-28 to Purdue and 40-10 to Wisconsin.

And the MSU fans were throwing the guy a parade for that season

What a great season 5 from where they came from

They would have been a dynasty had he decided to stay for less $$ and the cold weather

 

Yep and the dog would have caught the rabbit if he wouldn't have stopped to take a sh#t.

 

You can't say one way or another if Saban could have built a dynasty at MSU. I'm sure you are basing that off of his success at LSU and Bama.

[TGHusker]

I agree with Zoogs. He gets 4 seasons before ant rumblings at all. This enables him to get his recruits in, all with the same vision and mission. It will enable him to completely install his system with depth and experience.

 

I also think that he is allegedly installing a new offensive scheme, a new defensive scheme and its his first year in the B1G. I look at how Bo had to adjust.

 

On the plus side, our O should be potent and allowed us to win 9 last season. If Banker can get our D to only slow down the run, that's good for at least one more win. We have two tougher OOC games in BYU and Miami that could cause some issues, making this years first few games harder than last years schedule IMO. The same cast of characters again in Wisky, Iowa and Minnie. I also think that just the experience of this staff is good enough for an additional win. Riley was also able to coach his guys up for the big games looking at his record at OSU he seemed to

 

I truly don't see us falling below the 9 win season set by Bo. If we do, it will be year 1 as the staff tries to figure out the B1G. It might be advantageous to us as well as teams try to figure out a competent (experienced) staff from top to bottom.

 

With Riley's positive attitude and likable personality, the wheels would have to completely fall off the cart for him to be in jeopardy of getting let go. Even if he turns in some 8 win seasons. I am impressed with the recruiting thus far as he appears to a) do a great job holding the class together and b) seems to be getting some highly rated recruits in next years class. Recruiting, paired with experience is a winning combination. So far, Riley is doing well in the tangibles that build success.

 

Looking back on Bo's tenure. He won in spite of his short comings. Poor recruiting (misses and lack of production), a staff that had little to no experience and no real bond with the fans, administration, former players or media. All of this hurt him. You can only motivate with the us against them mentality before it wears you down.

Good review Lo. I like what he's done wt recruiting thus far as well. We'll see the benefits of that by year 3 for sure - if not year 2 if one of those recent 2 QBs recruits really catch fire. His attitude and its affect on the players alone should be worth one win compared to the drag Bo's negativity had on the players. If Banker can surprise us and actually upgrades the D significantly, then we could see a drastic change in where we've been under Bo.

[mnhusker]

I think Riley is a 7-10 year guy, If he has solid results but not great (AKA Bo) he will still be given time because I think he will build strong relationships with all of his constituents. If he win a bunch I think he will leave simply because he will retire. Less than 7 years would be a failure that leads to a decision of we hate to part ways but the program needs new direction but I don't think that will happen.

[huKSer]

Saban was 59% at MSU

 

Dantonio is 70% at MSU

 

Obviously Dantonio is the better coach

 

Can't argue with facts.