The Repub Debate

[HuskerShark]

Except it's not just casinos. He's had condo resorts go bust screwing over investors who are basically average americans buying a spot. He's also lent his name only to projects that go bust, and lent his name only on most of "his" buildings. Trump University... need I say more? Trump Vodka, Trump magazine, Trump airlines, Trump travel, Trump steaks, Trump Mortgage... all bust.

 

There's no problem with investing, giving your name, or taking a risk. But you gotta be smart about it, which he doesn't seem to be.

 

From an average person's standpoint, I can see how you think that. Have you ever watched Shark Tank? The Sharks invest in hundreds of companies on there, and not all of them become successful. The Sharks lose all or most of their money on a lot of their deals, but it's a law of averages. One investment that turns out great can make them millions and offset the ones that failed. That's how successful people work. They make quick, educated decisions and exhibit massive action. I will NOT critique Trump for several failed businesses, because that's a poor man's mindset.

 

As far as the bankruptcies, of the 4 bankruptcies that he's filed for, 3 of them were on casinos.

[HuskerShark]

Regarding trade, are we REALLY getting killed on trade, or are we just parrotting that because Trump likes to say it?

 

NAFTA, as much as he likes to demonize it, helps keep goods prices much more affordable than they were anyway. And as much as Bernie and Trump hammer on the job losses it brought about, manufacturing jobs were going to be lost to automation anyway. But that's an inconvenient truth for either of them, and you won't hear them bring it up when they can point the finger elsewhere.

 

Trump seems to have a zero-sum approach on dealing with anyone. This extends to international diplomacy and trade. He thinks, "X (country) wins, we lose. We need to start winning again!" This implies that the other country is going to need to lose. I'm no expert, but I don't believe that's at all how trade and international relations work. He's trying to carryover a concept that works for him in the business world, but it really doesn't translate.

 

Just because we have a large trade deficit with someone does not mean we're losing.

 

Here's a good explanation for what would happen when Trump starts enacting his ridiculous tariffs:

 

 

If a trade deficit is determined solely by rates of savings and investment, then the U.S. trade deficit will be impervious to a get-tough trade policy.

 

Slapping higher tariffs on imports will only deprive foreigners of the dollars they would have earned by selling in the U.S. market.

 

This, in turn, will reduce the supply of dollars on the international currency market, raise the value of the dollar relative to other currencies and make dollar-priced U.S. exports more expensive for foreign buyers, thus reducing demand for our exports. Eventually the volume of exports will fall along with imports, and the trade deficit will remain largely unchanged.

 

It should be noted that a trade deficit is actually usuall an indicator of economic growth.

 

When trade deficits shrink, it typically means the economy is slowing down.

 

It's not about winning and losing with trade. It's about balance. He uses specific numbers when talking about deficits with other countries, and it's appalling the amount of money that is flying out of our country. We can't continue to give everything and get nothing.

 

Typically economic growth numbers are numbers put out by the government and politicians to pull the wool over peoples' eyes about what's really going on.

[Danny Bateman]

 

Regarding trade, are we REALLY getting killed on trade, or are we just parrotting that because Trump likes to say it?

 

NAFTA, as much as he likes to demonize it, helps keep goods prices much more affordable than they were anyway. And as much as Bernie and Trump hammer on the job losses it brought about, manufacturing jobs were going to be lost to automation anyway. But that's an inconvenient truth for either of them, and you won't hear them bring it up when they can point the finger elsewhere.

 

Trump seems to have a zero-sum approach on dealing with anyone. This extends to international diplomacy and trade. He thinks, "X (country) wins, we lose. We need to start winning again!" This implies that the other country is going to need to lose. I'm no expert, but I don't believe that's at all how trade and international relations work. He's trying to carryover a concept that works for him in the business world, but it really doesn't translate.

 

Just because we have a large trade deficit with someone does not mean we're losing.

 

Here's a good explanation for what would happen when Trump starts enacting his ridiculous tariffs:

 

 

If a trade deficit is determined solely by rates of savings and investment, then the U.S. trade deficit will be impervious to a get-tough trade policy.

 

Slapping higher tariffs on imports will only deprive foreigners of the dollars they would have earned by selling in the U.S. market.

 

This, in turn, will reduce the supply of dollars on the international currency market, raise the value of the dollar relative to other currencies and make dollar-priced U.S. exports more expensive for foreign buyers, thus reducing demand for our exports. Eventually the volume of exports will fall along with imports, and the trade deficit will remain largely unchanged.

 

It should be noted that a trade deficit is actually usuall an indicator of economic growth.

 

When trade deficits shrink, it typically means the economy is slowing down.

 

It's not about winning and losing with trade. It's about balance. He uses specific numbers when talking about deficits with other countries, and it's appalling the amount of money that is flying out of our country. We can't continue to give everything and get nothing.

 

Typically economic growth numbers are numbers put out by the government and politicians to pull the wool over peoples' eyes about what's really going on.

 

 

But that's not the case. It's just a convenient narrative that fits Trump's message.

[darkhorse85]

NAFTA also helps the Mexican drug cartels launder money. That's bad, m'kay.

[ZRod]

 

Except it's not just casinos. He's had condo resorts go bust screwing over investors who are basically average americans buying a spot. He's also lent his name only to projects that go bust, and lent his name only on most of "his" buildings. Trump University... need I say more? Trump Vodka, Trump magazine, Trump airlines, Trump travel, Trump steaks, Trump Mortgage... all bust.

There's no problem with investing, giving your name, or taking a risk. But you gotta be smart about it, which he doesn't seem to be.

 

From an average person's standpoint, I can see how you think that. Have you ever watched Shark Tank? The Sharks invest in hundreds of companies on there, and not all of them become successful. The Sharks lose all or most of their money on a lot of their deals, but it's a law of averages. One investment that turns out great can make them millions and offset the ones that failed. That's how successful people work. They make quick, educated decisions and exhibit massive action. I will NOT critique Trump for several failed businesses, because that's a poor man's mindset.

 

As far as the bankruptcies, of the 4 bankruptcies that he's filed for, 3 of them were on casinos.

And what brings him money right now?

 

It's not a poor man's thought process, it's an educated man's. You take smart risks. If you're going to use some stupid reality tv for comparison... they've invested 44 million between all of the sharks. The largest deal was 2.5 million. The average investment is around 160k. Trump took out a 380 million dollar loan and defaulted for his Airline. He owed construction companies tens of millions for the Taj Mahal and paid 20 cents on the dollar back avoiding involuntary bankruptcy before declaring it voluntarily later.

 

He may make some great smaller deals, but his high stakes, highly visible deals are aweful. What do you think he'll be doing as president? Low key dealings?

[knapplc]

Bill Gates - essentially stole a bunch of intellectual property from Steve Jobs and Apple that he used at Microsoft.

 

Warren Buffett - made his fortune by investing in a lot of other companies, which is extremely admirable, but it's a completely different business strategy than Trump used to build his fortune. It's very different philosophies. At the same time, I'd bet you that when Buffett negotiates deals, he's anything but a pushover.

 

Jerry Jones - You've got to be kidding me. He's an enormous clown, but you have to give him credit because he's obviously extremely successful.

 

Tom Brady & Ndamukong Suh - Not businessmen. They're still technically employees - just very well compensated. Regardless, they're two of the more disliked players in the NFL because they're super competitive and aggressive. Big time respect to them.

 

Clintons & Bushes - They're politicians. It's their job to be likeable, and they still don't do a very good job of it.

 

Tiger Woods - He's arguably the greatest golfer to ever live, sure, but he's a d*ck. And he cheated on his wife.

 

Steve Jobs - If you know anything about him, you know that he was an extremely brash and aggressive person because he was a perfectionist. At the same time, that's why he was able to build an amazing company.

 

So I guess what I'm getting at is this: If you can overlook all the negative qualities of the rest of these successful people and acknowledge that they are successful because they know how to achieve greatness, why are you quick to criticize Trump? I know he's not perfect, and he opens his mouth without thinking things through too often, but you have to acknowledge that he's a spectacular negotiator and businessman. If he weren't, he wouldn't have achieved what he has today.

Bill Gates - Is not asking America to elect him president and give him the nuclear codes.

 

Warren Buffett - Is not asking America to elect him president and give him the nuclear codes.

 

Jerry Jones - Is not asking America to elect him president and give him the nuclear codes.

 

Tom Brady & Ndamukong Suh - Is not asking America to elect them president and give them the nuclear codes.

 

Clintons & Bushes - They're politicians. It's their job to be likeable, and they still don't do a very good job of it.

 

Tiger Woods - Is not asking America to elect him president and give him the nuclear codes.

 

Steve Jobs - Did not ask America to elect him president and give him the nuclear codes.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is that the appeal? Trump positions himself as "the alpha" and all the wannabe alphas out there idolize him for it? I guess that makes some sense.

I kind of wish there could be a real conversation without all the hyperbole. It's obvious that a lot of people who are against Trump only read articles and watch news casts that are completely biased and then just regurgitate the garbage they read or hear.

 

I don't believe he ever wanted to run for president. He was in several interviews throughout the past couple decades and they asked him if he ever would run. His answer pretty much every time was essentially "I wouldn't run unless our country got bad enough that I felt like I had to."

 

I guess I find it hard to follow some peoples' interpretation that he's in it for selfish reasons.

Your candidate prevents a real conversation. Did you actually watch any of the debates?

 

I REALLY wish he would actually talk about issues but he very very seldom ever does and when he does, he proves he has absolutely no clue what he is doing.

 

Attacking people is what has worked for him and why he keeps doing it.

 

Why won't his followers demand that he actually talk about issues instead of attack people personally?

 

 

 

Or...are we back to the Alpha thing?

Like it or not, "the alpha thing" is sales and business. And running the country is essentially being the CEO of the largest business in the world. You have a right to see it how you feel you want to, but I feel like I've done my part in this thread to help talk about Trump in a more subjective manner rather than simply listening to the propaganda that's out there regarding him.

 

I keep hearing "he never talks about specifics" about Trump. First off, what other candidate have you heard actually say what they are going to do? I tried hearing what Cruz was proposing, but he's exactly like Hillary in the fact that they say whatever they feel like they need to say in order to appease the audience they're talking to. I respect Sanders for being an outsider who's going up against the establishment, as well as his integrity, but I truly believe his policies would be the nail in the coffin of America's once-great economy. So to get back on track, I've heard Trump be the MOST consistent AND (admittedly) controversial with the things he says, but most of the time, he's completely right.

 

And I know exactly why he's getting brutalized by public opinion. It's because in our society, we're taught that rich people are evil, and then people turn around and applaud mediocrity. I don't get it personally, but it is what it is right now, and I hope it changes.

I'm sorry, I'm 49 years old and have been in the business world ever since I was in college. I run a pretty successful business and have been in business with and around people who are extremely successful business people. For the life of me, I can not remember anyone of them that thought being a total jackass to people was some how becoming an "alpha" over people and that's why they are successful. Are there jackasses? Absolutely...but, they are just jackasses that people have to put up with. In fact, I know some jackasses that would be even more successful if they weren't jackasses.

This entire thought process that insulting people is some how some magnificent business tactic is totally preposterous and it's amazing to me that he has somehow convinced this many people of that.

 

As for the bolded red. That right there is the perfect description of Trump. You seem to be a reasonably intelligent person. What I am shocked at is that there are people like you who are intelligent and don't see it. He has flip flopped on just about every issue he has actually discussed. Why???? Because his audience changes or he realizes he's getting killed by something he said so he has to change it to be....."well.....that's not what I really meant....the media is painting it differently". I'm even trying to think of something he has been consistent about other than...."I'm so great".

 

And....finally.....at least for me on the bolded green part.....I have absolutely zero problem with rich people. But, the question I have on your comment is, what person running isn't rich? Seriously....to get to where they are, you have to be rich. So, why would people who have a problem with rich people single him out?

Also I would just like to say that of these rich successful people; Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Steve Jobs, Trump, The Clintons, The Bushes, Tiger Woods, Ndamukong Suh, Elon Musk, Bruce Springsteen, Tom Brady, Jerry Jones, the Kardashians, Eminem... get my point. I only dislike one person (Trump because he's a buffoon) and hate one family (because they are artificial morons; aka Kardashians). So no even a "liberal" isn't taught to hate the rich. We just think differently about collective wealth and how that can best serve the country.

 

 

Bill Gates - essentially stole a bunch of intellectual property from Steve Jobs and Apple that he used at Microsoft.

 

Warren Buffett - made his fortune by investing in a lot of other companies, which is extremely admirable, but it's a completely different business strategy than Trump used to build his fortune. It's very different philosophies. At the same time, I'd bet you that when Buffett negotiates deals, he's anything but a pushover.

 

Jerry Jones - You've got to be kidding me. He's an enormous clown, but you have to give him credit because he's obviously extremely successful.

 

Tom Brady & Ndamukong Suh - Not businessmen. They're still technically employees - just very well compensated. Regardless, they're two of the more disliked players in the NFL because they're super competitive and aggressive. Big time respect to them.

 

Clintons & Bushes - They're politicians. It's their job to be likeable, and they still don't do a very good job of it.

 

Tiger Woods - He's arguably the greatest golfer to ever live, sure, but he's a d*ck. And he cheated on his wife.

 

Steve Jobs - If you know anything about him, you know that he was an extremely brash and aggressive person because he was a perfectionist. At the same time, that's why he was able to build an amazing company.

 

So I guess what I'm getting at is this: If you can overlook all the negative qualities of the rest of these successful people and acknowledge that they are successful because they know how to achieve greatness, why are you quick to criticize Trump? I know he's not perfect, and he opens his mouth without thinking things through too often, but you have to acknowledge that he's a spectacular negotiator and businessman. If he weren't, he wouldn't have achieved what he has today.

 

No I don't.

 

If he would have simply invested the money he inherited in the stock market, he would have had more of it.

 

Also, literally screwed many small contractors in his quest to make money by building buildings and then taking bankruptcy on that property. Contractors got screwed and he made out like a bandit.

 

THAT is not an admirable business man. It's a slime ball.

 

So, he could have made more money doing something else and screwed people.

Sorry, he's a pathetic loser.

 

I just wish you would stop trying to promote that he is some genius business man. It's just flat out false.

 

 

This is a weak bullsh#t argument that I've seen time and time again. There is no way that he could have known that at the time he was loaned the money. He's not some sort of clairvoyant. Can you predeict the stock market? Let me know what it's going to look like in 40 years.

 

Show me a billionaire that hasn't screwed someone over.

 

Sorry you feel that way.

 

Actually, the stock market has been fairly consistent over that long of a period. It's fairly predictable the longer you are in it.

 

And....sorry again....I don't admire someone who basically uses bankruptcy as a business practice. There are lots of very wealthy people who have not done that.

 

 

But...hey....a genius business man like him would know that. He is so amazingly awesome that anyone anywhere close to his brilliant mind should be able to at least look at a graph.

 

Maybe everyone else isn't an Alpha......

 

 

 

 

So since you're telling me that you're a business-minded person, I want you to tell me what the alternative to declaring bankruptcy is. And you can't say things like "He needed to take more calculated steps" or something of that sort. Sometimes when you're running businesses (especially when you have multiple like Trump) s#it happens. It's bound to happen when you're moving forward. Example:

 

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/energy-ticker/2014/04/29/warren-buffetts-big-mistake-ends-up-in-bankruptcy-court/

 

So I want you to tell me: You're in Trump's shoes. You've got tens (maybe hundreds) of millions of dollars tied up in a casino that you own, when the casino industry goes to hell. What other options do you have?

 

You are right. Sometimes sh#t happens. I know many people who have taken bankruptcy and it greatly affected their lives trying to pay people back still. Many times the bankruptcy agreement isn't that the debt is wiped away but that it is given extended terms so that the business can still operate and everyone still gets paid. What filing chapter 11 basically does is it prevents any creditor from coming in and shutting the doors to try to collect.

 

People then work their azzes off to pay people off and restart their lives and save their business.

 

I have very little respect for someone who uses bankruptcy as a deal maker. Here he had MUCH more wealth available to pay people off. But, in his "deal making" with the people he screwed, that was all protected. Oh...sure....he had to maybe sell a plane or a yacht in one or two instances. Big deal. He still had millions while the average person got screwed. Why wasn't he taking those millions and paying off creditors?

 

His taking bankruptcy is very very very different than you or I going and starting a business and it going bankrupt. We aren't using it as a management tool to create more wealth.

 

His comments the other day about loving debt and being the king of debt and then making comments about borrowing and then making a deal later on paying it back for less just proves my point.

 

A good intelligent business man is someone you would want to be in business with. Not this slime ball.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Except it's not just casinos. He's had condo resorts go bust screwing over investors who are basically average americans buying a spot. He's also lent his name only to projects that go bust, and lent his name only on most of "his" buildings. Trump University... need I say more? Trump Vodka, Trump magazine, Trump airlines, Trump travel, Trump steaks, Trump Mortgage... all bust.

 

There's no problem with investing, giving your name, or taking a risk. But you gotta be smart about it, which he doesn't seem to be.

 

From an average person's standpoint, I can see how you think that. Have you ever watched Shark Tank? The Sharks invest in hundreds of companies on there, and not all of them become successful. The Sharks lose all or most of their money on a lot of their deals, but it's a law of averages. One investment that turns out great can make them millions and offset the ones that failed. That's how successful people work. They make quick, educated decisions and exhibit massive action. I will NOT critique Trump for several failed businesses, because that's a poor man's mindset.

 

As far as the bankruptcies, of the 4 bankruptcies that he's filed for, 3 of them were on casinos.

 

Here we go again.

 

He is so amazingly brilliant that the rest of us just can't grasp his greatness.

 

LOL....a great business man that can't run a casino.

[BigRedBuster]

So....his investors and creditors can't trust him to pay them back.

 

His wives can't trust him to stay faithful to them.

 

Why should I trust him to do what he says he is going to do (If I actually liked anything he said he was going to do)?

[HuskerShark]

 

 

Except it's not just casinos. He's had condo resorts go bust screwing over investors who are basically average americans buying a spot. He's also lent his name only to projects that go bust, and lent his name only on most of "his" buildings. Trump University... need I say more? Trump Vodka, Trump magazine, Trump airlines, Trump travel, Trump steaks, Trump Mortgage... all bust.

 

There's no problem with investing, giving your name, or taking a risk. But you gotta be smart about it, which he doesn't seem to be.

 

From an average person's standpoint, I can see how you think that. Have you ever watched Shark Tank? The Sharks invest in hundreds of companies on there, and not all of them become successful. The Sharks lose all or most of their money on a lot of their deals, but it's a law of averages. One investment that turns out great can make them millions and offset the ones that failed. That's how successful people work. They make quick, educated decisions and exhibit massive action. I will NOT critique Trump for several failed businesses, because that's a poor man's mindset.

 

As far as the bankruptcies, of the 4 bankruptcies that he's filed for, 3 of them were on casinos.

 

Here we go again.

 

He is so amazingly brilliant that the rest of us just can't grasp his greatness.

 

LOL....a great business man that can't run a casino.

 

 

LOL here we go again.... another attempt to make it sound like succeeding at those enormous enterprises is super easy and something that absolutely anyone can do. It's not.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

Except it's not just casinos. He's had condo resorts go bust screwing over investors who are basically average americans buying a spot. He's also lent his name only to projects that go bust, and lent his name only on most of "his" buildings. Trump University... need I say more? Trump Vodka, Trump magazine, Trump airlines, Trump travel, Trump steaks, Trump Mortgage... all bust.

 

There's no problem with investing, giving your name, or taking a risk. But you gotta be smart about it, which he doesn't seem to be.

 

From an average person's standpoint, I can see how you think that. Have you ever watched Shark Tank? The Sharks invest in hundreds of companies on there, and not all of them become successful. The Sharks lose all or most of their money on a lot of their deals, but it's a law of averages. One investment that turns out great can make them millions and offset the ones that failed. That's how successful people work. They make quick, educated decisions and exhibit massive action. I will NOT critique Trump for several failed businesses, because that's a poor man's mindset.

 

As far as the bankruptcies, of the 4 bankruptcies that he's filed for, 3 of them were on casinos.

 

Here we go again.

 

He is so amazingly brilliant that the rest of us just can't grasp his greatness.

 

LOL....a great business man that can't run a casino.

 

 

LOL here we go again.... another attempt to make it sound like succeeding at those enormous enterprises is super easy and something that absolutely anyone can do. It's not.

 

Obviously....Trump can't.

[teachercd]

I said it once...America has NEVER elected a President that has declared bankruptcy and we will NOT start now.

[mrandyk]

So....his investors and creditors can't trust him to pay them back.

 

His wives can't trust him to stay faithful to them.

 

Why should I trust him to do what he says he is going to do (If I actually liked anything he said he was going to do)?

Because he embraces the bigot in us all.

[cm husker]

Why won't he release his tax information?

[HuskerShark]

Why won't he release his tax information?

 

He's under audit.