Whistlebritches Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I'm curious how the pro-torture guys feel about the warrant-less mass surveillance and bulk data collection that is happening here in America. It's all being done in the name of security. Stingray devices, saved phone records with SMS messages, license plate readers, internet monitoring, etc Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I'm curious how the pro-torture guys feel about the warrant-less mass surveillance and bulk data collection that is happening here in America. It's all being done in the name of security. Stingray devices, saved phone records with SMS messages, license plate readers, internet monitoring, etc Being "OK with torture" is entirely predicated on it only happening "over there." The pro-torture guys aren't forward-thinking enough to see how easily it can happen here, and the terrible ramifications of allowing the government this kind of unsupervised power. If it only happens "over there" to "the bad guys," it's fine. But with the examples you gave and that I've given earlier in this thread, it's easy to see how quickly that kind of thing can happen here. It happened in Chile, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, various other South American & African countries, all within the past century. It can and will happen here if we allow it. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Question for the Trump supporters. How do you support someone who up until recently, was a big supporter of the Clintons and called himself a liberal Democrat? Then, all of a sudden he decides to run for President and he's this staunch conservative Republican telling jokes about 2 Corinthians walking into a bar? How does an evangelical Christian support a guy who has been married three times and his current wife is faker than a 3 dollar bill and has proven time and time again he has no respect for women? I had these same questions about Dem feminists who just thought Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy were God's gift to women's rights. Really? You have a known cheater who loves wet cigars in the oval office and a drunk womanizer that left his girl friend to die in a car crash. I honestly don't understand the thought process people go through when deciding to be 110% all in in support of someone that clearly has proven to be just the opposite of the views they put forth to the public. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I'm curious how the pro-torture guys feel about the warrant-less mass surveillance and bulk data collection that is happening here in America. It's all being done in the name of security. Stingray devices, saved phone records with SMS messages, license plate readers, internet monitoring, etc Being "OK with torture" is entirely predicated on it only happening "over there." The pro-torture guys aren't forward-thinking enough to see how easily it can happen here, and the terrible ramifications of allowing the government this kind of unsupervised power. If it only happens "over there" to "the bad guys," it's fine. But with the examples you gave and that I've given earlier in this thread, it's easy to see how quickly that kind of thing can happen here. It happened in Chile, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, various other South American & African countries, all within the past century. It can and will happen here if we allow it. How many of these people would support the government torturing the friends of Cliven Bundy so they could get information about his whereabouts and his operation? 2 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 Question for the Trump supporters. How do you support someone who up until recently, was a big supporter of the Clintons and called himself a liberal Democrat? Then, all of a sudden he decides to run for President and he's this staunch conservative Republican telling jokes about 2 Corinthians walking into a bar? How does an evangelical Christian support a guy who has been married three times and his current wife is faker than a 3 dollar bill and has proven time and time again he has no respect for women? I had these same questions about Dem feminists who just thought Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy were God's gift to women's rights. Really? You have a known cheater who loves wet cigars in the oval office and a drunk womanizer that left his girl friend to die in a car crash. I honestly don't understand the thought process people go through when deciding to be 110% all in in support of someone that clearly has proven to be just the opposite of the views they put forth to the public. This 1000%. I don't understand the appeal of Trump other than it proves that there are a lot of non-thinking voters out there - which is a danger to democracy in and of itself (that is worthy of another thread). That is how a tyrant gets elected. He is throwing out all of the red meat as possible that the mindless devour wtout understanding there is no substance there - it is fake McDonald's meat not a T-Bone. They get 'supersized' by identifying wt Trump's huge ego. He makes them 'feel' big. However, what they don't see is that Trump is everything these people didn't like in Obama. A rose by any other name is still a rose. They are both narcissistic. I think both would have difficulty speaking in depth regarding policy without a prepared speech or teleprompter. Listen to Trump's NH victory speech - it is all about him, it was shallow, not humble, not honoring of others. I also don't understand 'evangelicals' who support Trump. His hubris is totally opposite of the humble Christ we are called to follow. Deception by things of this world is my only answer. We have 3 revolutions going on in this election as evident by the lack of support for establishment candidates - outside of Kasich's short time in the light in NH: 1. Trump is going for a revolution of anger and crony capitalism (just make the deal). It is all about deal making, insulting others, and king making. 2. Sanders is going for a revolution of socialism. Also an angry response to wall street, & the political class. 3. Constitutional revolution as pushed by Rand Paul (now out), Cruz, and to a lessor extent Rubio. There is also anger there. I don't see our answer in pure socialism (yes, we have a lot of it in our current system as discussed previously - we don't have a pure capitalism system now). I don't see the answer in making Trump a deal making crony capitalism king - he would want to become a tyrant - fascist, authoritarian, egomaniac (sounds like someone running for Prime Minister in Germany in 1934 ). We must return to the restraints of the constitution: blind justice, equal justice lived out wtout interference of the big business/big govt scratching each other's back (crony capitalism) or bankrupting the system under socialism. Unfortunately, Cruz has so many issues that would work against him in the GE and Rubio just imploded in NH. It is funny when one thinks about it both the 'socialist' and the 'constitutionist' both argue against similar things - big govt/big banks/big corporations scratching each others back while main street suffers. They have different tracks to fix the problem. Socialism: grow govt by taxing the 'big guy' to help the 'small guy' and Constitutionism: restrain gov't to its primary roles as protector of the small guy and not the promoter of the big guy. I would say that Sanders is the most consistent example in all of this. Cruz & Rubio as the constitution guys have to explain the 'big guy' donations. So stay tuned. It will go pretty fast now wt SC, Nev and Super Tuesday coming up 1 Link to comment
teachercd Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 This thread keeps getting better! Link to comment
HuskerShark Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 America.... Where people with bold stances on important issues are ridiculed. 1 Link to comment
teachercd Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 America.... Where people with bold stances on important issues are ridiculed. Hey...the most important thing is that terrorists are treated with respect and give cold milk and warm cookies! (Who will be the first to think this is serious) Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 No answers to questions??? I'm trying to understand. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 America.... Where people with bold stances on important issues are ridiculed. I think by bold you meant to say f'ing stupid or morally detestable. A common typo. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 For those of you having trouble keeping up, here's a quick rundown:The torture of many innocents to (maybe) find one bad guy - THIS IS OKA bit of fun poked at a poorly-thought-out premise - THIS IS NOT OK Link to comment
HuskerShark Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Once again, no one said anything about torturing innocent people. You said that, not me. Link to comment
HuskerShark Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 America.... Where people with bold stances on important issues are ridiculed. Hey...the most important thing is that terrorists are treated with respect and give cold milk and warm cookies! (Who will be the first to think this is serious) The most honorable Sir Terrorist, may we also offer you some hot chocolate?..... What about silk linens and a gold crown?...... Now will you tell us what we want to know?....... No?.... Dammit, I guess this doesn't work.... Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Once again, no one said anything about torturing innocent people. You said that, not me. It has been explained to you that you do not know who the bad guys are. You can persist in this Pollyanna-esque belief that the only people being tortured are bad, but that is not and has never been the case. 1 Link to comment
HuskerShark Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Once again, no one said anything about torturing innocent people. You said that, not me. It has been explained to you that you do not know who the bad guys are. You can persist in this Pollyanna-esque belief that the only people being tortured are bad, but that is not and has never been the case. Did your military distant relatives tell you this? Link to comment
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