Army_Allen Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 ^^^^ Oh? Please enlighten us to what socialism actually is. What the sign guy is describing is communism which is not the same as Socialism. Communism was the ideology that no matter the job you did you got paid the same and everyone was equal (minus the fact that the whole system was corrupt at the top) whereas Socialism is the idea that what should be basic rights (education higher than HS, Medicine and healthcare etc) should be able to be readily available or free to anyone no matter your economic status. The surplus that the one percent holds right now with all the tax breaks available to them would be enough to help out those that aren't as privileged as you. Much of that money shouldn't be in that top 1 percent anyways as the wealth isn't being dispersed evenly among workers even in the slightest. To the bolded part, why? And do you think that those in the highest tax brackets would continue to act the same, therefore creating the excess tax revenue that you allude to, without certain incentives? Even if they acted the exact same, how much would the extra revenue from the one percent ACTUALLY help? Let's ask Neil and....Keely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmji36q8E4o EDIT: I don't know how to imbed the youtubez. I'm bad at internet. I had totally forgotten about that video and interview. It really is very telling.Look, I'm all for making sure various people are paying they fair share. However, the mantra of "Let's force the rich to pay for it" is wearing thin and eventually, the math just doesn't work. Sure, it makes some people feel better by socking it to those evil rich people. But......at some point you have to look at the bigger picture here. You know that debate between that kid and that dude was unfair from the start. Just because she doesn't have all the answers etc doesn't mean it's not a viable plan. Taxpayers now are spending billions upon billions upon trillions even on our military and as a former military enlisted, that is obnoxious. What happens when we move some of those funds to something just as important in education while also minimalizing the amount of absurd deductions the top 1 percent get, and you'd find the funds needed to support free public tuition to public universities. Two studies came out recently and the first (my fiance was told about this one in her business econ class so I don't have all the info) showed nearly 50% of companies pay no taxes at all and some even get paid from the government annually. The second is that after the many many deductions the 1 percent are able to find, with the best accountants in the world that aren't available to most people, they pay less percentage wise that both your lower and middle class citizens. What's fair in that? I call total BS. No taxes at all? And...this was a woman that the protest put out there to argue their point and she is that uneducated on the subject? Gee....imagine how clueless the rest of the people are. You know what I mean BRB, don't be condescending. You and I both know the difference between a 20+ vet in business vs a student still going for her degree isn't a fair go even if she is knowledgeable on the subject. As for the business not getting taxed, I'm not sure what the circumstances were to achieve it whether it be to get non profit status like the nfl had for so long or what. It's something my fiance heard firsthand from her econ teacher and she relayed it to me yesterday. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 ^^^^ Oh? Please enlighten us to what socialism actually is. What the sign guy is describing is communism which is not the same as Socialism. Communism was the ideology that no matter the job you did you got paid the same and everyone was equal (minus the fact that the whole system was corrupt at the top) whereas Socialism is the idea that what should be basic rights (education higher than HS, Medicine and healthcare etc) should be able to be readily available or free to anyone no matter your economic status. The surplus that the one percent holds right now with all the tax breaks available to them would be enough to help out those that aren't as privileged as you. Much of that money shouldn't be in that top 1 percent anyways as the wealth isn't being dispersed evenly among workers even in the slightest. To the bolded part, why? And do you think that those in the highest tax brackets would continue to act the same, therefore creating the excess tax revenue that you allude to, without certain incentives? Even if they acted the exact same, how much would the extra revenue from the one percent ACTUALLY help? Let's ask Neil and....Keely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmji36q8E4o EDIT: I don't know how to imbed the youtubez. I'm bad at internet. I had totally forgotten about that video and interview. It really is very telling.Look, I'm all for making sure various people are paying they fair share. However, the mantra of "Let's force the rich to pay for it" is wearing thin and eventually, the math just doesn't work. Sure, it makes some people feel better by socking it to those evil rich people. But......at some point you have to look at the bigger picture here. You know that debate between that kid and that dude was unfair from the start. Just because she doesn't have all the answers etc doesn't mean it's not a viable plan. Taxpayers now are spending billions upon billions upon trillions even on our military and as a former military enlisted, that is obnoxious. What happens when we move some of those funds to something just as important in education while also minimalizing the amount of absurd deductions the top 1 percent get, and you'd find the funds needed to support free public tuition to public universities. Two studies came out recently and the first (my fiance was told about this one in her business econ class so I don't have all the info) showed nearly 50% of companies pay no taxes at all and some even get paid from the government annually. The second is that after the many many deductions the 1 percent are able to find, with the best accountants in the world that aren't available to most people, they pay less percentage wise that both your lower and middle class citizens. What's fair in that? I call total BS. No taxes at all? And...this was a woman that the protest put out there to argue their point and she is that uneducated on the subject? Gee....imagine how clueless the rest of the people are. You know what I mean BRB, don't be condescending. You and I both know the difference between a 20+ vet in business vs a student still going for her degree isn't a fair go even if she is knowledgeable on the subject. As for the business not getting taxed, I'm not sure what the circumstances were to achieve it whether it be to get non profit status like the nfl had for so long or what. It's something my fiance heard firsthand from her econ teacher and she relayed it to me yesterday. I'm not being condescending. I'm balking at your comment that implies she was an innocent person that was ambushed by someone so much more knowledgable. Well..we do agree on something. Neil is more knowledgable than her. Link to comment
Landlord Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Why the hell would I listen to cable news anchors/personalities when I can read what economists have to say? Link to comment
HuskerShark Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 ^^^^ Oh? Please enlighten us to what socialism actually is. What the sign guy is describing is communism which is not the same as Socialism. Communism was the ideology that no matter the job you did you got paid the same and everyone was equal (minus the fact that the whole system was corrupt at the top) whereas Socialism is the idea that what should be basic rights (education higher than HS, Medicine and healthcare etc) should be able to be readily available or free to anyone no matter your economic status. The surplus that the one percent holds right now with all the tax breaks available to them would be enough to help out those that aren't as privileged as you. Much of that money shouldn't be in that top 1 percent anyways as the wealth isn't being dispersed evenly among workers even in the slightest. To the bolded part, why? And do you think that those in the highest tax brackets would continue to act the same, therefore creating the excess tax revenue that you allude to, without certain incentives? Even if they acted the exact same, how much would the extra revenue from the one percent ACTUALLY help? Let's ask Neil and....Keely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmji36q8E4o EDIT: I don't know how to imbed the youtubez. I'm bad at internet. I had totally forgotten about that video and interview. It really is very telling.Look, I'm all for making sure various people are paying they fair share. However, the mantra of "Let's force the rich to pay for it" is wearing thin and eventually, the math just doesn't work. Sure, it makes some people feel better by socking it to those evil rich people. But......at some point you have to look at the bigger picture here. You know that debate between that kid and that dude was unfair from the start. Just because she doesn't have all the answers etc doesn't mean it's not a viable plan. Taxpayers now are spending billions upon billions upon trillions even on our military and as a former military enlisted, that is obnoxious. What happens when we move some of those funds to something just as important in education while also minimalizing the amount of absurd deductions the top 1 percent get, and you'd find the funds needed to support free public tuition to public universities. Two studies came out recently and the first (my fiance was told about this one in her business econ class so I don't have all the info) showed nearly 50% of companies pay no taxes at all and some even get paid from the government annually. The second is that after the many many deductions the 1 percent are able to find, with the best accountants in the world that aren't available to most people, they pay less percentage wise that both your lower and middle class citizens. What's fair in that? So in your mind, it would be a good idea to hammer taxes on the companies that create people's jobs and pay their bills? multi billion dollar companies that wouldn't feel the hurt from it other than being sour their scummy use of loopholes that allowed them to pay next to nothing in respect to what they made? Sure. Not every company fits that though. Every time more taxes are issued against companies that create jobs, there is less inventive for them to create jobs, so they cut. Then people sit and complain about how unfair that is. Then those taxes trickle down to the middle class. Then people complain more. It's a never ending circle when approached from that direction. Link to comment
Army_Allen Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 ^^^^ Oh? Please enlighten us to what socialism actually is. What the sign guy is describing is communism which is not the same as Socialism. Communism was the ideology that no matter the job you did you got paid the same and everyone was equal (minus the fact that the whole system was corrupt at the top) whereas Socialism is the idea that what should be basic rights (education higher than HS, Medicine and healthcare etc) should be able to be readily available or free to anyone no matter your economic status. The surplus that the one percent holds right now with all the tax breaks available to them would be enough to help out those that aren't as privileged as you. Much of that money shouldn't be in that top 1 percent anyways as the wealth isn't being dispersed evenly among workers even in the slightest. To the bolded part, why? And do you think that those in the highest tax brackets would continue to act the same, therefore creating the excess tax revenue that you allude to, without certain incentives? Even if they acted the exact same, how much would the extra revenue from the one percent ACTUALLY help? Let's ask Neil and....Keely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmji36q8E4o EDIT: I don't know how to imbed the youtubez. I'm bad at internet. I had totally forgotten about that video and interview. It really is very telling.Look, I'm all for making sure various people are paying they fair share. However, the mantra of "Let's force the rich to pay for it" is wearing thin and eventually, the math just doesn't work. Sure, it makes some people feel better by socking it to those evil rich people. But......at some point you have to look at the bigger picture here. You know that debate between that kid and that dude was unfair from the start. Just because she doesn't have all the answers etc doesn't mean it's not a viable plan. Taxpayers now are spending billions upon billions upon trillions even on our military and as a former military enlisted, that is obnoxious. What happens when we move some of those funds to something just as important in education while also minimalizing the amount of absurd deductions the top 1 percent get, and you'd find the funds needed to support free public tuition to public universities. Two studies came out recently and the first (my fiance was told about this one in her business econ class so I don't have all the info) showed nearly 50% of companies pay no taxes at all and some even get paid from the government annually. The second is that after the many many deductions the 1 percent are able to find, with the best accountants in the world that aren't available to most people, they pay less percentage wise that both your lower and middle class citizens. What's fair in that? So in your mind, it would be a good idea to hammer taxes on the companies that create people's jobs and pay their bills? multi billion dollar companies that wouldn't feel the hurt from it other than being sour their scummy use of loopholes that allowed them to pay next to nothing in respect to what they made? Sure. Not every company fits that though.Every time more taxes are issued against companies that create jobs, there is less inventive for them to create jobs, so they cut. Then people sit and complain about how unfair that is. Then those taxes trickle down to the middle class. Then people complain more. It's a never ending circle when approached from that direction.So the 99 percent of our population needs to just accept that they get railed by the current system? Link to comment
ZRod Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 ^^^^ Oh? Please enlighten us to what socialism actually is. What the sign guy is describing is communism which is not the same as Socialism. Communism was the ideology that no matter the job you did you got paid the same and everyone was equal (minus the fact that the whole system was corrupt at the top) whereas Socialism is the idea that what should be basic rights (education higher than HS, Medicine and healthcare etc) should be able to be readily available or free to anyone no matter your economic status. The surplus that the one percent holds right now with all the tax breaks available to them would be enough to help out those that aren't as privileged as you. Much of that money shouldn't be in that top 1 percent anyways as the wealth isn't being dispersed evenly among workers even in the slightest. To the bolded part, why? And do you think that those in the highest tax brackets would continue to act the same, therefore creating the excess tax revenue that you allude to, without certain incentives? Even if they acted the exact same, how much would the extra revenue from the one percent ACTUALLY help? Let's ask Neil and....Keely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmji36q8E4o EDIT: I don't know how to imbed the youtubez. I'm bad at internet. I had totally forgotten about that video and interview. It really is very telling.Look, I'm all for making sure various people are paying they fair share. However, the mantra of "Let's force the rich to pay for it" is wearing thin and eventually, the math just doesn't work. Sure, it makes some people feel better by socking it to those evil rich people. But......at some point you have to look at the bigger picture here. You know that debate between that kid and that dude was unfair from the start. Just because she doesn't have all the answers etc doesn't mean it's not a viable plan. Taxpayers now are spending billions upon billions upon trillions even on our military and as a former military enlisted, that is obnoxious. What happens when we move some of those funds to something just as important in education while also minimalizing the amount of absurd deductions the top 1 percent get, and you'd find the funds needed to support free public tuition to public universities. Two studies came out recently and the first (my fiance was told about this one in her business econ class so I don't have all the info) showed nearly 50% of companies pay no taxes at all and some even get paid from the government annually. The second is that after the many many deductions the 1 percent are able to find, with the best accountants in the world that aren't available to most people, they pay less percentage wise that both your lower and middle class citizens. What's fair in that? So in your mind, it would be a good idea to hammer taxes on the companies that create people's jobs and pay their bills? multi billion dollar companies that wouldn't feel the hurt from it other than being sour their scummy use of loopholes that allowed them to pay next to nothing in respect to what they made? Sure. Not every company fits that though.Every time more taxes are issued against companies that create jobs, there is less inventive for them to create jobs, so they cut. Then people sit and complain about how unfair that is. Then those taxes trickle down to the middle class. Then people complain more. It's a never ending circle when approached from that direction.So the 99 percent of our population needs to just accept that they get railed by the current system?I don't know that the 99% get railed... But there's solid evidence that the trickle down doesn't work. Kansas being the latest case study. So why not bump those taxes back up and start collecting. That way we can invest in the future with education, infrastructure, etc? 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 99% of American's are getting "railed by the current system". Hmmm..... Link to comment
Army_Allen Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 ^^^^ Oh? Please enlighten us to what socialism actually is. What the sign guy is describing is communism which is not the same as Socialism. Communism was the ideology that no matter the job you did you got paid the same and everyone was equal (minus the fact that the whole system was corrupt at the top) whereas Socialism is the idea that what should be basic rights (education higher than HS, Medicine and healthcare etc) should be able to be readily available or free to anyone no matter your economic status. The surplus that the one percent holds right now with all the tax breaks available to them would be enough to help out those that aren't as privileged as you. Much of that money shouldn't be in that top 1 percent anyways as the wealth isn't being dispersed evenly among workers even in the slightest. To the bolded part, why? And do you think that those in the highest tax brackets would continue to act the same, therefore creating the excess tax revenue that you allude to, without certain incentives? Even if they acted the exact same, how much would the extra revenue from the one percent ACTUALLY help? Let's ask Neil and....Keely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmji36q8E4o EDIT: I don't know how to imbed the youtubez. I'm bad at internet. I had totally forgotten about that video and interview. It really is very telling.Look, I'm all for making sure various people are paying they fair share. However, the mantra of "Let's force the rich to pay for it" is wearing thin and eventually, the math just doesn't work. Sure, it makes some people feel better by socking it to those evil rich people. But......at some point you have to look at the bigger picture here. You know that debate between that kid and that dude was unfair from the start. Just because she doesn't have all the answers etc doesn't mean it's not a viable plan. Taxpayers now are spending billions upon billions upon trillions even on our military and as a former military enlisted, that is obnoxious. What happens when we move some of those funds to something just as important in education while also minimalizing the amount of absurd deductions the top 1 percent get, and you'd find the funds needed to support free public tuition to public universities. Two studies came out recently and the first (my fiance was told about this one in her business econ class so I don't have all the info) showed nearly 50% of companies pay no taxes at all and some even get paid from the government annually. The second is that after the many many deductions the 1 percent are able to find, with the best accountants in the world that aren't available to most people, they pay less percentage wise that both your lower and middle class citizens. What's fair in that? So in your mind, it would be a good idea to hammer taxes on the companies that create people's jobs and pay their bills? multi billion dollar companies that wouldn't feel the hurt from it other than being sour their scummy use of loopholes that allowed them to pay next to nothing in respect to what they made? Sure. Not every company fits that though.Every time more taxes are issued against companies that create jobs, there is less inventive for them to create jobs, so they cut. Then people sit and complain about how unfair that is. Then those taxes trickle down to the middle class. Then people complain more. It's a never ending circle when approached from that direction.So the 99 percent of our population needs to just accept that they get railed by the current system?I don't know that the 99% get railed... But there's solid evidence that the trickle down doesn't work. Kansas being the latest case study. So why not bump those taxes back up and start collecting. That way we can invest in the future with education, infrastructure, etc?Because we haven't cared about investing in education since the tech battle we had with Russia way back when. 1 or 2 percent of our federal budget goes to education. Which is abysmal compared to what countries like Spain, the UK and others invest. Link to comment
Army_Allen Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 99% of American's are getting "railed by the current system". Hmmm..... Not 99 obviously I was being dramatic just like the repubs on stage last night. But our working class and impoverished citizens aren't set up to succeed in today's economic build. That's a fact and like someone said above, the trickle doesn't work. Bernie nor hilary may have the plan that gets the people in the right spot to have more people prosper, but I know the trickle effect and tax rates as they stand won't get anything accomplished other than maintaining the status quo. Link to comment
zoogs Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 We still have the finest research institutions in the world, but we also have states that would very much like to establish anti-evolution textbooks and presidential candidates who boast about eliminating the Dept of Education. It's a weird thing I would've thought trickle down economics has been thoroughly discredited by now. Of course, growth is good. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 99% of American's are getting "railed by the current system". Hmmm..... Not 99 obviously I was being dramatic just like the repubs on stage last night. But our working class and impoverished citizens aren't set up to succeed in today's economic build. That's a fact and like someone said above, the trickle doesn't work. Bernie nor hilary may have the plan that gets the people in the right spot to have more people prosper, but I know the trickle effect and tax rates as they stand won't get anything accomplished other than maintaining the status quo. In your perfect world, how would the tax structure be set up? Link to comment
Army_Allen Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 99% of American's are getting "railed by the current system". Hmmm..... Not 99 obviously I was being dramatic just like the repubs on stage last night. But our working class and impoverished citizens aren't set up to succeed in today's economic build. That's a fact and like someone said above, the trickle doesn't work. Bernie nor hilary may have the plan that gets the people in the right spot to have more people prosper, but I know the trickle effect and tax rates as they stand won't get anything accomplished other than maintaining the status quo. In your perfect world, how would the tax structure be set up? A true tiered tax system where deductions don't allow the top 1% to pay the same percentage on taxes as lower class families. We'd notice differences between that and properly appropriating some of our ungodly amount of defense funds alone. In fiscal year 2015, the federal budget is $3.8 trillion. These trillions of dollars make up about 21 percent of the U.S. economy (as measured by Gross Domestic Product, or GDP). It's also about $12,000 for every woman, man and child in the United States. https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/ Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 You do realize we do have a teared tax structure where even when looking at the effective rate the rich are paying a higher percentage of income.....right? I posted the reports somewhere on this board not too long ago. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 IIRC, BRB posted work (or I saw some somewhere) that declared on average, it is VASTLY the rule rather than the exception that the rich pay the highest [effective] tax rates. I'd love to see some more data, though.We're breaking down taxes in here and no one is talking about the s---show in Chitown last night? Bernie supporters were a big part of the fracas... Link to comment
Creighton Duke Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 ^^^^Truly awful scene last night, but at least all of the moderates and people on the fence will being voting for Trump....so....thanks Bernie!! #thankthabern! Link to comment
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