Secondary Play

[GOAT]

Have Eric Lee or Avery Anderson played at all, or are they redshirting? Both of those kids were excellent HS players... if Davie can't handle it, one of them could surely step in to fill the role. This may have been a case of Davie winning the starting position due to experience.

[txschutte]

I don't know if our guys are being coached differently this year but it doesn't seem like our corners are looking back for the ball. There have been a number of catches that could have been broken up if the CB was playing the ball.

 

Hate singling out a guy but Davie isn't good enough to be on an island. Poor coverage like we saw today will lose us games against better competition.

I mentioned this pass play after pass play last night. Drove me crazy.

[SouthLincoln Husker]

 

I don't know if our guys are being coached differently this year but it doesn't seem like our corners are looking back for the ball. There have been a number of catches that could have been broken up if the CB was playing the ball.

 

Hate singling out a guy but Davie isn't good enough to be on an island. Poor coverage like we saw today will lose us games against better competition.

I mentioned this pass play after pass play last night. Drove me crazy.

 

Davie did good against BYU & was one of our better CB last year. Now you want to crucify him over a game we won big. Yes he got beat several times, but he is playing in a new defense and yet another DB coach. The coverage was good, he just needs to look for the ball. The coaches will do there job and he will get better or sit the bench. Riley said after the game. I do not worry about yards its the final score that matters. No TDs given up by the first team and we again played with only 9 starters, which is a reason for the lack of pressure that would of helped Davie on those long routes.

[huskered17]

Davie got beat just as bad last week. I can see by his reactions after each catch against him, that he is giving his all, but he needs some help out there. Felt bad for him.

I don't if its the "scheme" but, next week will be a lot tougher on him.

 

GBR!!!

[SouthLincoln Husker]

Davie got beat just as bad last week. I can see by his reactions after each catch against him, that he is giving his all, but he needs some help out there. Felt bad for him.

I don't if its the "scheme" but, next week will be a lot tougher on him.

 

GBR!!!

I will disagree, everyone in my section thought Davie was the best corner after game 1. This week, a couple of the guys about had heart attacks. Of course, they complain about something on almost every possession. He has the athletic ability, we have the coaches and its up to him to look at film and get better. I am not going crucify him after one game.

[Norhusker]

Well Miami didn't impress me that much against FAU. Their defense looked soft in the first half. We should get plenty of scoring opportunities if TA and the OL line do their jobs.

 

I think we will limit their rushing to. Kaaya is good, but if we really focus on cleaning up the secondary I like our chances much better than I originally hoped after the BYU game.

[Mavric]

Have Eric Lee or Avery Anderson played at all, or are they redshirting? Both of those kids were excellent HS players... if Davie can't handle it, one of them could surely step in to fill the role. This may have been a case of Davie winning the starting position due to experience.

 

Both redshirting unless something changes.

 

I don't like what I'm seeing out there. We are playing A LOT of one-on-one coverage. Not that we've been totally beaten - Davie actually had about as good of coverage as you could ask for a couple times - but we're just not giving ourselves any margin for error. Obviously the deep passes get the most attention but we give up all kinds of easy 8-12 yard passes. We have to play off so as not to get beat deep but that makes it easy for the receiver to check up about 10 yards down the filed and be wide open for an easy throw.

 

I haven't watched the USA game again but our linebackers seem non-existent in pass coverage. I gave them a little pass against BYU as I thought they may have been staying home to spy on Hill but they seem to just be in no-man's land a lot - not creating a pass rush but not really helping in coverage either.

 

There was an article on ESPN last week where they talked to some opposing coaches who were questioning Michigan State's ability to continue to play Cover 4 without elite corners. I think we have some good talent at CB but probably not elite. After seeing how our concepts are playing out after a couple games, I don't see how this will work without a significant change in scheme.

 

We're currently #119 in the country in passing yards allowed per game. We're #94 in yards allowed per attempt. Per McKewon, we're #110 in passing plays of 20+ yards allowed. And we haven't played teams that have particularly good athletes at WR.

 

Perhaps we still have something in the bag of tricks but if we do it would have been nice to use it instead of getting beat by BYU.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Have Eric Lee or Avery Anderson played at all, or are they redshirting? Both of those kids were excellent HS players... if Davie can't handle it, one of them could surely step in to fill the role. This may have been a case of Davie winning the starting position due to experience.

 

Both redshirting unless something changes.

 

I don't like what I'm seeing out there. We are playing A LOT of one-on-one coverage. Not that we've been totally beaten - Davie actually had about as good of coverage as you could ask for a couple times - but we're just not giving ourselves any margin for error. Obviously the deep passes get the most attention but we give up all kinds of easy 8-12 yard passes. We have to play off so as not to get beat deep but that makes it easy for the receiver to check up about 10 yards down the filed and be wide open for an easy throw.

 

I haven't watched the USA game again but our linebackers seem non-existent in pass coverage. I gave them a little pass against BYU as I thought they may have been staying home to spy on Hill but they seem to just be in no-man's land a lot - not creating a pass rush but not really helping in coverage either.

 

There was an article on ESPN last week where they talked to some opposing coaches who were questioning Michigan State's ability to continue to play Cover 4 without elite corners. I think we have some good talent at CB but probably not elite. After seeing how our concepts are playing out after a couple games, I don't see how this will work without a significant change in scheme.

 

We're currently #119 in the country in passing yards allowed per game. We're #94 in yards allowed per attempt. Per McKewon, we're #110 in passing plays of 20+ yards allowed. And we haven't played teams that have particularly good athletes at WR.

 

Perhaps we still have something in the bag of tricks but if we do it would have been nice to use it instead of getting beat by BYU.

 

I fully understand the concern. However, two things:

 

a) Riley said today they were "going to get him some help". That could mean some help from a safety or it means they know what he is doing wrong and will work to correct it.

 

b) I would MUCH rather stop the run and make teams try to beat us with long balls or with a pass. At least we are doing that much. I don't want us to go away from that commitment. Now, what would be interesting if they would from time to time get him help with a safety so the opposing team doesn't know when that help is going to come or if that safety is going to be helping with the run.

 

Now, I don't agree with you on the LBs. I think they have been very active. I remember Young being in pass coverage and he has broken up at least one pass in the first game.

[Landlord]

Those that understand the schemes better than I do, what exactly are our safeties doing now? Are they manning up on receivers?

[Mavric]

Those that understand the schemes better than I do, what exactly are our safeties doing now? Are they manning up on receivers?

 

We do have safety help a decent amount on one side of the field. The second half against BYU and fairly frequently against USA one safety helped over the top. That's how Gerry got his INT against USA. But the other side of the field is manned up. The other safety locks onto a slot receiver.

[Mavric]

Now, I don't agree with you on the LBs. I think they have been very active. I remember Young being in pass coverage and he has broken up at least one pass in the first game.

I probably didn't explain that enough. It's not that they're not doing anything. As you mentioned they do have some coverage responsibilities.

 

It seems to me that everyone - save possibly one safety - is locked up man to man on a designated receiver. There are five eligible receivers on any given play and we have six guys to cover them (assuming rushing four and one safety in the hole). But what seems to be happening a lot is teams are keeping their back in to pass protect as they need extra help blocking our DTs. But it seems to me - and I'll have to watch this more closely when I get to re-watch the USA game - is that when the backs stay in to block our LBs are kind of stuck doing nothing. That's not the worst thing as I would assume they could still pick up some sort of delayed route or screen. But a lot of times it just seems like they don't end up doing anything. Which doesn't help when we are struggling in pass defense.

[cg_8]

Well, what I know about Cover 4/Quarters is based off of MSU's scheme, which might be nuanced enough to be different. I haven't really had time to dive deep into how we use it, but from my eyes, there are plenty of similarities for me to recognize they have "that" cover 4/quarters look.

 

In Quarters, the safeties generally play closer to the line. MSU liked this because it potentially put 8-9 guys in the box, while simultaneously being in pass D.

 

On what can be recognized on the pass play, the outside guys are on an island. CB's match up with outside guys which we'll call #1's. #2's are the next guys in, and #3's the same (usually RB). Now, #2's are LB's responsibility in their zone, until they go deep enough for the Safety (+8 yards or so). Then, those guys are essentially the Safety's responsibility, which then becomes m2m coverage at that point.

 

If the #2 stays under (8 yards-ish and under), they stay the LB's responsibility. At which case, the safeties then become a "robber", meaning they help with #1's. Which is what happened on Gerry's INT. He was free to become a robber, and came up with INT.

[Mavric]

Well, what I know about Cover 4/Quarters is based off of MSU's scheme, which might be nuanced enough to be different. I haven't really had time to dive deep into how we use it, but from my eyes, there are plenty of similarities for me to recognize they have "that" cover 4/quarters look.

 

In Quarters, the safeties generally play closer to the line. MSU liked this because it potentially put 8-9 guys in the box, while simultaneously being in pass D.

 

On what can be recognized on the pass play, the outside guys are on an island. CB's match up with outside guys which we'll call #1's. #2's are the next guys in, and #3's the same (usually RB). Now, #2's are LB's responsibility in their zone, until they go deep enough for the Safety (+8 yards or so). Then, those guys are essentially the Safety's responsibility, which then becomes m2m coverage at that point.

 

If the #2 stays under (8 yards-ish and under), they stay the LB's responsibility. At which case, the safeties then become a "robber", meaning they help with #1's. Which is what happened on Gerry's INT. He was free to become a robber, and came up with INT.

 

This is more what I was expecting to see but it's not what we've been running - at least not a decent percentage of the time. Or perhaps only on one side of the field. There are a lot of times where the safety is sprinting up toward the line of scrimmage at the snap to cover a slot.

 

The corner has the outside WR, the safety has the slot and the OLB has the RB. All man-to-man. Which is why we've had trouble covering the slot receiver on a quick out because we are having to come from too far away.

[cg_8]

 

 

This is more what I was expecting to see but it's not what we've been running - at least not a decent percentage of the time. Or perhaps only on one side of the field. There are a lot of times where the safety is sprinting up toward the line of scrimmage at the snap to cover a slot.

 

The corner has the outside WR, the safety has the slot and the OLB has the RB. All man-to-man. Which is why we've had trouble covering the slot receiver on a quick out because we are having to come from too far away.

 

Which is possible, depending on what the play is. However, watching a lot of the BYU game, I see releases from LB's, and coverage from both LB's. Here are two plays that I see both coverages.

 

Here's a play with LB in coverage while you have both safeties have robber roles. Quick pass from Hill, smart read, he knows whats going on. LB stays in coverage, while Cockrell becomes robber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoOU5N2PCoM?t=25m47s

 

The play after, you can see Dedrick release the guy to Safety.

 

And on this trips play, you can see Banderas begin to cover the third guy in, but as soon as he passes him, he releases him also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoOU5N2PCoM?t=16m40s

 

That play is ingenious, because they attack on one side, leaving two guys having to play m2m. Gerry is robber on the play,but he bites a bit on the PA fake, so that split second keeps him out of the play. And with the LB releasing to Cockrell, he's essentially out as a robber.

 

But you might be right. There might be certain plays where we play that type of role, but I see the m2m with LB's on the under, as well as the release to the Safeties.

[True2tRA]

That is Banker's def., get use to it. Our DBs will be on an island and they will get beat once in awhile. Riley said in the post game that he does not look at yards a lot, but the score is what matters. The old bend but don;t break. The difference between Rose & Davie was the fact that Rose would look for the ball. I think this will be corrected.

This.

 

You wanna stop the run, then be prepared to give up a big play here or there in the passing game guys. It's just how it is in this game. Every team has playmakers at WR. They will win some of these one on one battles. It is what it is, and people should have gotten an understanding of how this was going to go in the offseason when we were all told about this new defense.

 

Did Davie struggle? Yes. If Davie had simply put his hands up or read the recievers eyes and looked back to the ball, he'd have knocked it down or picked it off. Give credit to that WR for So. Bama too. That kid was a gamer.

 

Husker fans, you've got to decide, you want to stop the run or do you want to stop the pass. Rarely do you get the shutdown of both. I'd say in the Big Ten, we'd better stop the run.

 

Kaaya will test us, and he probably will get a few. We've just got to make the tackle and go on to the next play. This is a tough spot for these DB's. Rose did a very nice job I thought, Davie will step up I hope, but be prepared guys, these rough nights are gonna happen. Most important thing is for the DB's to move on and not let it snowball on them.

 

Personally, I love what we're doing on defense. The biggest issue to me is that we are not getting to the QB. I think that's effecting what some of you think of these defensive backs. When we blitz, we've got to get pressure in a reasonable amount of time. We can't expect the DB's to cover for too long. Even with we don't blitz, Maliek and Valentine, where the hell you at? I'd like to see more from the front four on obvious pass rushing situations.