And people wonder why the US is so divided

[C N Red]

No matter what happens, whether Republican or Democrat wins next election, the U.S. will be less divided without Obama.

[NUance]

U.S. Has More Guns - And Gun Deaths - Than Any Other Country

 

 

That's an interesting graph. But the vertical axis, is it gun deaths per 100k people per year? They should have put a time frame on it. For the sake of completeness. Without a timeframe it's sort of meaningless. The article doesn't shed any light. (I'm guessing it's per year. That would make sense.)

[Scratchtown]

So what are you going to do with the guns currently out in American's hands? That's what I want to know...

 

Gunna go door to door with ATF, DHS, FBI, CIA, National Guard, State Patrols?

 

You can see how American's would have an issue with a Gun Grab....right?

[VA Husker Fan]

 

What's an acceptable amount of time to wait after a tragedy for the President to address it?

 

If he waits too long or doesn't comment at all he gets criticized for not caring. If he doesn't wait long enough he gets criticized for trying to make political points.

 

Certainly not hours after the tragedy when some family members still didn't know if there loved one was killed. Here is what the President should have said:

 

"Today we are here to mourn the loss of more young lives lost to a madman, and our prayers and condolences go out to those families and loved ones affected. There is too much gun violence in this nation, and I call on members of both parties to come together and partner with me to analyze why this continues to happen, but that is not a discussion for today. Today we must support the families and the community college during this difficult time. Thank you very much."

 

That's fine. I'll agree with that. But let's also stop the other post-shooting bullsh#t where politicians say "The victims and families are in our prayers." but do absolutely nothing but line their pockets with donations from the gun lobby. More gun control may or may not work (seems to be working pretty well in Australia though, right?). But saying prayers for victims regularly absolutely is not working.

 

Not sure why I'm even bothering taking part in this. Nothing was done after Sandy Hook, so clearly too many people have decided that it's not worth even trying to prevent children from dying needlessly again. It's hard, and it won't be 100% effective, so let's not even make an effort.

 

As Jeb Bush says, "Stuff happens." You can always say prayers after stuff happens, amirite?

[VA Husker Fan]

So what are you going to do with the guns currently out in American's hands? That's what I want to know...

 

Gunna go door to door with ATF, DHS, FBI, CIA, National Guard, State Patrols?

 

You can see how American's would have an issue with a Gun Grab....right?

The problem won't be fixed overnight. That's no reason to kick it down the road and let it get worse and worse.

[mrandyk]

 

So what are you going to do with the guns currently out in American's hands? That's what I want to know...

 

Gunna go door to door with ATF, DHS, FBI, CIA, National Guard, State Patrols?

 

You can see how American's would have an issue with a Gun Grab....right?

The problem won't be fixed overnight. That's no reason to kick it down the road and let it get worse and worse.

 

Exactly, transition is rarely seamless. You don't leave a band aid on forever because you know it will hurt to rip it off your arm hair. There is no sensible reason for civilians to have access to firearms and we need to go down the road of taking them out of their hands.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

But, going off of the linked Vox article, we need to be more concerned with suicides i.e. mental illness than mass murders.

It's a matter of scale and a question of access. The suggestion there is that guns are a public health hazard. If guns are available, people will kill themselves using them. The argument made is that guns are by far the most effective, and that many (or most?) suicides come from transient desires rather than people with a long-term conviction to finish the job. The hypothesis is that if guns were less available, the simple effect is that some of the lives that are being taken would not be, and that many of those people would not try again.

 

Then again, maybe it's not worth it, and it's something we have to accept. There are, after all, many things which are legal but also pose risks to public health. Taking this view, guns ought to be kept legal, but called out for what they are: in many cases, a dangerous idea that should be avoided.

 

This is of course not what the gun lobby would like to hear, as that's their business being vilified. But never mind that. None of us here are concerned with the profits of gun companies, so that needn't affect our views.

 

With the mental health training I've received, if someone truly wants to do it, they will try another way. Doesn't mean you can't try and help them and stop them, but usually if they have a plan, have the means, have or are attempting suicide, they are pretty serious. Take the gun away, fine I'll use a knife, take the knife away, fine I'll take a bunch of pills, take the pills away, etc. etc.

 

My opinion is that the mental health care system in this country is a joke. I see it on a daily basis, "Oh, so you suffer from X disorder? Here, take these pills every day and you'll be fine." What happens when that person doesn't like the way the pills make them feel? They stop taking them and then have a mental breakdown, usually resulting in the police being called which can go several different directions. Depending on their disorder that can mean several different levels of responses from that person. Most often these people in these mass murder/active shooter incidents suffer from some sort of mental disorder or have some sort of mental breakdown.

 

I'm a supporter of the 2nd amendment, I own a few different guns, for a few different reasons, for hunting and work. I'm not saying changing or not changing gun laws will fix the issue or not. But to think that changing the gun laws and restricting access to guns will instantly solve this problem is pretty naive. There are several different things at work here in these situations and to me, the mental health care system is where we need to start. On the flip side, saying that not restricting gun laws is the way to go may be naive as well. It may be a combination of reforming our mental health care and some sort of gun laws that helps this situation, but I doubt you're going to see it stop all together any time soon.

 

Criminals will get guns, simple as that, you can't stop that, they don't abide by laws. Are we hearing about "gangsters" getting a gun and taking part in a mass murder inside a shopping center? No, we aren't, we hear about mentally disturbed subjects having access to guns after the fact that needed or were getting some sort of mental health help.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

So what are you going to do with the guns currently out in American's hands? That's what I want to know...

 

Gunna go door to door with ATF, DHS, FBI, CIA, National Guard, State Patrols?

 

You can see how American's would have an issue with a Gun Grab....right?

That's very scary situation to envision. If they tried to involve local law enforcement as well, I'll turn my badge in, that will end with a lot of bloodshed and I'll have no part of that.

[Scratchtown]

 

 

So what are you going to do with the guns currently out in American's hands? That's what I want to know...

 

Gunna go door to door with ATF, DHS, FBI, CIA, National Guard, State Patrols?

 

You can see how American's would have an issue with a Gun Grab....right?

The problem won't be fixed overnight. That's no reason to kick it down the road and let it get worse and worse.

 

Exactly, transition is rarely seamless. You don't leave a band aid on forever because you know it will hurt to rip it off your arm hair. There is no sensible reason for civilians to have access to firearms and we need to go down the road of taking them out of their hands.

 

You seriously trust the government THAT much?

 

I mean you don't have to be a conspirator to know that the Government is shady. Gun Control is one of those agenda's. There is no sensible argument against that.

 

Here is what the NRA supporters hate about the other side, is that you don't understand the other side, just like liberals.

 

The thing is, is that the NRA supporters DO understand the other side of the coin. City folk don't understand the need of firearms because their too busy staring at their phones walking down the street.

 

Taking away my right to supply food on my table through hunting is a travesty. You know, some people like to save money and harvest their own food. Why is that a problem?

[Scratchtown]

Let me also state that I'm angry that this garbage takes place. Like I get really fired up.

 

I want this to stop as much as the next guy on this board. You know, if the stupid effing government guarantee THE PEOPLE'S sovereignty over the government as intended in the constitution, i:e the 2nd Amendments purpose, I could get on board with a reduction of firearms, but not completely.

 

I think the answer would be to hike up prices of firearms and ammo, and then also put in place an extensive evaluation process to determine mental capacity.

 

I'm also going to say it again. I think it starts in parenting first, schools second, there needs to be a push of stressing "Character, and Integrity" over knowing how to do "2x+7y=32". Maybe I'm nuts, but to me, I feel like having character, and integrity make people in society much more benefitting to that society over knowing how to do Algebra...

 

Sorry to bag on Math, but I just don't see the purpose of graphing equations and the like, unless you actually need for a career field.

[zoogs]

It's true that people in different parts of the country will have different concerns. But nobody here is suggesting taking hunting rifles away from everybody, I think. And to illustrate, people in the country don't have to worry about this:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/lebron-james---there-s-no-room-for-guns-210233013.html

 

I think my argument is that all laws being the same, we have to be better about guns somehow. A lot of that simply has to come from us, yes. And a lot of it can probably be accomplished by the encouraging of a large reduction in gun population. That's where I suspect many will disagree.

 

How on earth is the NRA not shady with a gun control agenda? Whose interests do they serve? The government, at least, has a public health responsibility. They'd like to study this through the CDC, an insidious agenda no doubt, but they can't in part because of the influence exerted by guess whom, the NRA.

 

I also agree on the need to stress the importance of liberal arts education, and not just STEM, but... you don't see the purpose of graphing equations? ...

[Saunders]

The only way to truly "fix" the shooting problem is to make them illegal across the board. But, as has been shown when the government bans things, they will still be accesable via exceptions for the rich and powerful. It will affect minorities and middle/lower income folks vastly more. So, as has been the case for the last 50 years, the wealth and power in the country will be further condensed to the top 1% of the population. Basically, a return to the rich, white land owners model.

 

But for reals, as a gun owner, (who doesn't like the NRA) I think there's certainly things we can changed, but compromise doesn't get votes, and politicians want a splash. Stuff like "hi-cap" mags, and "assault weapons" is pure posturing. Mental health, better BG checks, and poverty are real fixes.

[Scratchtown]

It's true that people in different parts of the country will have different concerns. But nobody here is suggesting taking hunting rifles away from everybody, I think. And to illustrate, people in the country don't have to worry about this:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/lebron-james---there-s-no-room-for-guns-210233013.html

 

I think my argument is that all laws being the same, we have to be better about guns somehow. A lot of that simply has to come from us, yes. And a lot of it can probably be accomplished by the encouraging of a large reduction in gun population. That's where I suspect many will disagree.

 

How on earth is the NRA not shady with a gun control agenda? Whose interests do they serve? The government, at least, has a public health responsibility. They'd like to study this through the CDC, an insidious agenda no doubt, but they can't in part because of the influence exerted by guess whom, the NRA.

 

I also agree on the need to stress the importance of liberal arts education, and not just STEM, but... you don't see the purpose of graphing equations? ...

My point is that "Character Ed" is for everyone. Math is not everyone's strong point, nor do many people want it to be. I wasn't a Math guy other than basic math facts that I need to have.

 

It's not that I don't see the purpose as much as I see the need for building the individual in life skills, and character. I try (though rarely succeed) to model myself the way Jesus carried himself.

 

I want to see a life where every individual is respectful, responsible, is full of integrity, treats others right, etc, etc....

 

I get pissed when I see one of my senior football players smash a freshman "scout" player that is 100 lbs, trying to fill a spot, and then instead of helping him up, they laugh because it was easy. C'mon what kind of BS is that? I just think it's garbage. That way of thinking needs to be changed. Especially when my scout kid even though he gets up every time he's knocked down (no athletic bone in his body) and goes and goes again and again, but has tears in his eyes because eventually it starts to hurt....mentally, more so physically.

[Saunders]

 

If I want to kill myself, or someone else, the more difficult it is for me to do so the better. There is no coherent way of debating this. If a gun costs 5x as much, is 5x harder to acquire, is 5x more rare, or 5x whatever, then deaths and suicides go down because thousands of people either A) think better of their idea or lose motivation in the longer, more drawn out process that it takes to acquire the gun, B) don't have the means or the knowledge to obtain one, or C) get caught and flagged by the system while they're trying.

 

We should do that for voting too.

[Creighton Duke]

The only way to truly "fix" the shooting problem is to make them illegal across the board. But, as has been shown when the government bans things, they will still be accesable via exceptions for the rich and powerful. It will affect minorities and middle/lower income folks vastly more. So, as has been the case for the last 50 years, the wealth and power in the country will be further condensed to the top 1% of the population. Basically, a return to the rich, white land owners model.

 

But for reals, as a gun owner, (who doesn't like the NRA) I think there's certainly things we can changed, but compromise doesn't get votes, and politicians want a splash. Stuff like "hi-cap" mags, and "assault weapons" is pure posturing. Mental health, better BG checks, and poverty are real fixes.

I can't say this with 100 percent certainty, but if only the rich and powerful (possibly an allegory to government if we disarm the population?) had guns, I don't think you see mass shootings. Those doing the shootings are of lower status/wealth demographics.