Let's talk about Islamophobia

[funhusker]

 

 

 

 

But we aren't talking about liberal or feminist critiques of the religion. We're talking about how justified or not it is to casually (and officially?) associate the entire brand with violent radicalism.

How justified is it to associate law enforcement with police brutality? The association exists whether we like it or not. We can pretend Islam has no association with Islamic terrorism, but that's intellectually dishonest.

I don't agree with the analogy -- though I also wouldn't agree with "too many cops are bad people." I think that misses that issue entirely. Somewhat similar to the roots of religious discrimination, it's an association that deserves pushback.

 

I also disagree that intellectual dishonesty is on this side of the argument.

 

Any and all people and religions are prone to radical violence. We don't deal with Catholic or Buddhist terrorism here; as a consequence those phobias are not issues.

 

The heavily Muslim Middle East, on the other hand, is a place that has been particularly ravaged by war and instability. The West is complicit and intertwined, in a way that reaches back at least decades and is ongoing. The West can't have the kind of history it has there and then blame inherent qualities of the region's dominant religion for the hate engendered back at us. That would be intellectual dishonesty.

The middle east was ravaged by war and instability for thousands of years before the west showed up.They are going to find a reason to fight because that is all they know how to do. Calling radical Islam what it is, separates it from the 99% good Muslims in the religion. It isn't a phobia, and even if it was, if we had better homeland security then we wouldn't have any reason to have a phobia. People don't trust our government to keep us safe anymore and you can't blame them for thinking that way.

Well, that and create modern math and science...

 

Your bolded is literally the definition of a racist statement. Just as an FYI.

 

By the way, Islam isn't "thousands of years" old and leaving aside the fact that the west showed up early and a good portion of fighting in the region was imported in the form of western crusades.

 

Actually, I learned yesterday that it really is. Practicing Muslims believe "Islam", or peaceful submission to God, existed long before the heavens and earth were created. However, the teachings of Mohammad are only about 1400 years old. Yay me for applied learning!!!

[The Dude]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why aren't people referring to the guy who shot the police officers in Dallas as a Black terrorist?

Because that'd be stupid.

Because black isn't a religious or political ideology.

But it's a group/category of people.

And?

And, what's your point?

Black terrorism isn't a thing because black isn't an ideology that motivates terrorists.

Crazy people will use whatever excuses they want to convince themselves to hurt people who are different. It could be religion, could be race, could be lots of other things.

Are you claiming the phenomenon of global jihad can be explained by mental illness?

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why aren't people referring to the guy who shot the police officers in Dallas as a Black terrorist?

Because that'd be stupid.

Because black isn't a religious or political ideology.

But it's a group/category of people.

And?

And, what's your point?

Black terrorism isn't a thing because black isn't an ideology that motivates terrorists.

Crazy people will use whatever excuses they want to convince themselves to hurt people who are different. It could be religion, could be race, could be lots of other things.

Are you claiming the phenomenon of global jihad can be explained by mental illness?

People who commit terrorist attacks where they purposely kill civilians are crazy. I don't think you can do something like that without being a psychopath or all of the following: stupid, ignorant, brainwashed. A person who thinks their religion tells them to go kill innocents, takes it literally and then actually does it, is one of those things. The same goes for basically any other supposed motivation (e.g. race).

[The Dude]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why aren't people referring to the guy who shot the police officers in Dallas as a Black terrorist?

Because that'd be stupid.

Because black isn't a religious or political ideology.

But it's a group/category of people.

And?

And, what's your point?

Black terrorism isn't a thing because black isn't an ideology that motivates terrorists.

Crazy people will use whatever excuses they want to convince themselves to hurt people who are different. It could be religion, could be race, could be lots of other things.

Are you claiming the phenomenon of global jihad can be explained by mental illness?

People who commit terrorist attacks where they purposely kill civilians are crazy. I don't think you can do something like that without being a psychopath or all of the following: stupid, ignorant, brainwashed. A person who thinks their religion tells them to go kill innocents, takes it literally and then actually does it, is one of those things. The same goes for basically any other supposed motivation (e.g. race).

So in your view, only people who are stupid and ignorant are susceptible to this sort of religious brainwashing?

[BigRedBuster]

I really don't have much to add at the moment, but thought this would be a decent place to share. I spent the afternoon at the Islamic Center of Omaha with a group from my church and other people from the Omaha area. The second Saturday of each month they put on what I would call "Islam 101" presentation, and on the fourth Saturday a presentation of what Islam says about issues. For example, Islam and terrorism. These are open houses and everyone is invited.

 

It was a very informative afternoon, the Q&A was awesome. We talked about everything from the "proper" way to drink water to ISIS. As long as a question was asked with curiosity and respect it was thoughtfully and thoroughly answered. I went in to learn more about the historical relationship between Islam and Christianity but came away with so much more.

 

I would highly recommend this if any of you are in the Omaha area and interested in the topic, from any perspective. They did a great job and were nothing but gracious to us "infidels"

That's great. I wish more people would openly seek out to learn more about this subject. Years ago, when my wife and I lived in Des Moines, we took a class on Islam taught by Mohamad Kahn. He has been a Muslim leader in the community for years. He and his family did a wonderful job of explaining the religion to people who didn't understand it.

 

I actually wish I could take one again.

[ZRod]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why aren't people referring to the guy who shot the police officers in Dallas as a Black terrorist?

Because that'd be stupid.

Because black isn't a religious or political ideology.

But it's a group/category of people.

And?

And, what's your point?

Black terrorism isn't a thing because black isn't an ideology that motivates terrorists.

Crazy people will use whatever excuses they want to convince themselves to hurt people who are different. It could be religion, could be race, could be lots of other things.

Are you claiming the phenomenon of global jihad can be explained by mental illness?

Ignorant seems like a big ole "YES".

[84HuskerLaw]

 

 

 

 

 

but the media is out to get him or whoever is the Republican nominee.

 

Most news outlets were and are pretty consistently hard on Hitler. Bashing him if you will.

 

 

Does that mean they're out to get Hitler, or does it mean that Hitler is consistently awful?

I love the hypocrisy of liberals. They get make up some fake controversy and act offended by silly crap like the star in Trump's tweet, but then compare him to Hitler.

 

8 Things Liberals Do to Avoid Having an Honest Debate Broken Down to a Science

 

http://ijr.com/2014/01/105321-8-things-liberals-avoid-honest-debate-science/

And right wingers are different how?

 

Liberals are different from 'right wingers' (presumably you mean conservatives) in many ways but perhaps you are alluding to the fact that liberals make up their 'facts' to the extent that they even know what facts are to fit their preconceived notions and political agendas. Liberals intentionally omit the critical factual circumstances that blow their arguments out of the water logically and simply ignore reality in most instances. When the results of one of their programs is gross over spending and flat out failure to accomplish the stated objectives of the program (95% of all liberal programs and policies do exactly this), they will simply pretend the failures are not real or make up a whole new set of 'facts' to try to deflect the discussion, blaming the vast right wing conspiracy for everything the didn't work. LOL Conservatives simply look at the facts, honestly and realistically, and evaluate the proposed 'solutions' and make rational judgements as the possible efficacy of the proposed solutions. In other words, "will they work as suggested?" In general, liberalism is irrational and unrealistic and fails to take into account the basic facts of life, the basic economic principles that apply to the case and so on. Most liberal programs are pie in the sky stuff mostly designed to spend money hiring more public employees to do not much of anything productive, except vote Democrat in every election.

 

 

You're hilarious.

 

Of course a liberal would 'laugh' at the truth. They always try to pretend and live in a Wonderland world. Very sad and hurts the entire civilization when so many are so clueless.

[ZRod]

 

 

 

 

 

 

but the media is out to get him or whoever is the Republican nominee.

 

 

Most news outlets were and are pretty consistently hard on Hitler. Bashing him if you will.

 

 

Does that mean they're out to get Hitler, or does it mean that Hitler is consistently awful?

I love the hypocrisy of liberals. They get make up some fake controversy and act offended by silly crap like the star in Trump's tweet, but then compare him to Hitler.

8 Things Liberals Do to Avoid Having an Honest Debate Broken Down to a Science

http://ijr.com/2014/01/105321-8-things-liberals-avoid-honest-debate-science/

And right wingers are different how?

Liberals are different from 'right wingers' (presumably you mean conservatives) in many ways but perhaps you are alluding to the fact that liberals make up their 'facts' to the extent that they even know what facts are to fit their preconceived notions and political agendas. Liberals intentionally omit the critical factual circumstances that blow their arguments out of the water logically and simply ignore reality in most instances. When the results of one of their programs is gross over spending and flat out failure to accomplish the stated objectives of the program (95% of all liberal programs and policies do exactly this), they will simply pretend the failures are not real or make up a whole new set of 'facts' to try to deflect the discussion, blaming the vast right wing conspiracy for everything the didn't work. LOL Conservatives simply look at the facts, honestly and realistically, and evaluate the proposed 'solutions' and make rational judgements as the possible efficacy of the proposed solutions. In other words, "will they work as suggested?" In general, liberalism is irrational and unrealistic and fails to take into account the basic facts of life, the basic economic principles that apply to the case and so on. Most liberal programs are pie in the sky stuff mostly designed to spend money hiring more public employees to do not much of anything productive, except vote Democrat in every election.

You're hilarious.

Of course a liberal would 'laugh' at the truth. They always try to pretend and live in a Wonderland world. Very sad and hurts the entire civilization when so many are so clueless.

You're hurting civilization. Get off your horse. Become a human being; realize you are not always right, and just because people disagree doesn't mean they are both wrong. There is always more than one solution. Life isn't black and white as you make it seem.

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why aren't people referring to the guy who shot the police officers in Dallas as a Black terrorist?

Because that'd be stupid.

Because black isn't a religious or political ideology.

But it's a group/category of people.

And?

And, what's your point?

Black terrorism isn't a thing because black isn't an ideology that motivates terrorists.

Crazy people will use whatever excuses they want to convince themselves to hurt people who are different. It could be religion, could be race, could be lots of other things.

Are you claiming the phenomenon of global jihad can be explained by mental illness?

People who commit terrorist attacks where they purposely kill civilians are crazy. I don't think you can do something like that without being a psychopath or all of the following: stupid, ignorant, brainwashed. A person who thinks their religion tells them to go kill innocents, takes it literally and then actually does it, is one of those things. The same goes for basically any other supposed motivation (e.g. race).

So in your view, only people who are stupid and ignorant are susceptible to this sort of religious brainwashing?

The ones who also do these attacks, yes. You have to be stupid and ignorant or a psychopath to be convinced that it's the proper course of action.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why aren't people referring to the guy who shot the police officers in Dallas as a Black terrorist?

Because that'd be stupid.

Because black isn't a religious or political ideology.

But it's a group/category of people.

And?

And, what's your point?

Black terrorism isn't a thing because black isn't an ideology that motivates terrorists.

Crazy people will use whatever excuses they want to convince themselves to hurt people who are different. It could be religion, could be race, could be lots of other things.

Are you claiming the phenomenon of global jihad can be explained by mental illness?

People who commit terrorist attacks where they purposely kill civilians are crazy. I don't think you can do something like that without being a psychopath or all of the following: stupid, ignorant, brainwashed. A person who thinks their religion tells them to go kill innocents, takes it literally and then actually does it, is one of those things. The same goes for basically any other supposed motivation (e.g. race).

So in your view, only people who are stupid and ignorant are susceptible to this sort of religious brainwashing?

The ones who also do these attacks, yes. You have to be stupid and ignorant or a psychopath to be convinced that it's the proper course of action.

 

There are very smart people all the time that are suckered in and brainwashed to believe in a certain set of "Facts" that affect their actions in the future. These aren't necessarily dumb people.

 

Probably the single biggest problem with solving any of our societal issues is that each side thinks the other is dumb and ignorant so therefore we don't listen to the other side.

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why aren't people referring to the guy who shot the police officers in Dallas as a Black terrorist?

Because that'd be stupid.

Because black isn't a religious or political ideology.

But it's a group/category of people.

And?

And, what's your point?

Black terrorism isn't a thing because black isn't an ideology that motivates terrorists.

Crazy people will use whatever excuses they want to convince themselves to hurt people who are different. It could be religion, could be race, could be lots of other things.

Are you claiming the phenomenon of global jihad can be explained by mental illness?

People who commit terrorist attacks where they purposely kill civilians are crazy. I don't think you can do something like that without being a psychopath or all of the following: stupid, ignorant, brainwashed. A person who thinks their religion tells them to go kill innocents, takes it literally and then actually does it, is one of those things. The same goes for basically any other supposed motivation (e.g. race).

So in your view, only people who are stupid and ignorant are susceptible to this sort of religious brainwashing?

The ones who also do these attacks, yes. You have to be stupid and ignorant or a psychopath to be convinced that it's the proper course of action.

 

There are very smart people all the time that are suckered in and brainwashed to believe in a certain set of "Facts" that affect their actions in the future. These aren't necessarily dumb people.

 

Probably the single biggest problem with solving any of our societal issues is that each side thinks the other is dumb and ignorant so therefore we don't listen to the other side.

 

 

I didn't say it's only stupid people who are suckered in and brainwashed. I've said each time that I'm talking about people who purposely kill civilians/innocents. Again I contend that you can't do that if you're not stupid/ignorant/brainwashed OR a psychopath. There are many smart psychopaths.

[zoogs]

People will do terrible things. They don't need to be crazy or deficient.

 

All that has to happen is for the circumstances to be ripe for the demagogues to advance. They come in all stripes, religious or otherwise.

 

70-80 years ago, it was nations of the West going mad with destruction and the worst of atrocities. The shoe may well be on the other foot, again, some time in the (hopefully distant) future.

[cm husker]

People will do terrible things. They don't need to be crazy or deficient.

 

All that has to happen is for the circumstances to be ripe for the demagogues to advance. They come in all stripes, religious or otherwise.

 

70-80 years ago, it was nations of the West going mad with destruction and the worst of atrocities. The shoe may well be on the other foot, again, some time in the (hopefully distant) future.

It is almost uncanny how the crusades mainly happened 11th-13th century and the worst example of Christian motivated violence, the Spanish Inquisition, was in the 16th century, so roughly 1300 to 1400 years into a major monotheistic religions lifecycle. Similarly, Muhammad's teachings, which were the foundation of modern Islam, occurred around 600 AD, or roughly 1400 years ago.

 

Even Judaism, which is mainly peaceful today, had a period around 1500 years after its inception where violence and forced conversion were prevalent.

 

Is this just the typical growing pains of monotheistic religion, except now it's played out in the era of more dangerous weapons and the Internet?

[cm husker]

To put it in perspective, the inquisitions may have killed 1% of the European population of 1500. That's a moderate estimate of 1,000,000 killed as a result. Low end estimate have it as few as 10,000. High have 10,000,000. Probably a fairer guess is 100,000 killed and many times more than persecuted.

 

It'd be interesting to see how the percentages stack up, especially in flatter world of today.

[huskerfan2000]

http://media.b*******.solili.viralliberty.com/media-hiding-mob-somili-muslims-white-minnesota-neighbors-god-help-us/

 

http://dennismichaellynch.com/guilty-verdicts-of-10-minnesota-jihadis-overlooked-by-media/