The Obama Legacy

[Landlord]

That's something you can't seem to understand or at least refuse to acknowledge.

 

 

Nobody is doing either of those things. It does seem, however, to some, that your feelings don't reflect reality as far as we see it. Of course that doesn't make you wrong, because nobody is without bias or preconceived notions, but it doesn't seem to me at least that your perspective on Obama is all that justified.

 

Nobody is 'piling on' either. It's a messageboard - you state an opinion, and people respond with opposing opinions, sometimes backed by corroborating evidence. What is the big deal?

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

 

Right, so, what I'm wondering is, what exactly the actions/rhetoric that Obama has done are? Where's the evidence of "Our perceptions of his thoughts towards us are fairly negative"? What has he done to warrant that?

This puzzles me as well. If Obama is the one who says the right things but does the wrong ones, then what are those action items?

 

Similarly, if Trump both says the right things (established, I think), what do you expect he will do that is in such contrast to what Obama has done?

I'm not interested in discussing my justification for voting for Trump. The sky has been falling for some since he won the presidency and what I say there won't matter. That's okay, I voted for him, I had several reasons why. Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards law enforcement and has acknowledged that we are being attacked on several different levels. He's also taken the time to contact widows of fallen officer personally to extend his condolences. Something that would be considered abnormal in an Obama presidency. It's the facts and something that is important to me.

Ok.

 

Both of these are from 2015.

 

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/31/obama-calls-widow-darren-goforth/

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kcra.relaymedia.com/amp/article/sacramento-deputy-s-widow-to-attend-state-of-the-union-address/6419492?client=safari

 

 

The funny thing is in the 2 minutes it took to find these I also came across one about Trump calling a widow, and the line right after it which I could see before clicking said "Something Obama would never do!"

 

Even though he'd already done it more than once and we probably don't hear about it every time. Maybe, just maybe, Obama doesn't do it for the attention and we only find out when the widows come forward and tell people he did it.

I didn't say he never did it, I said it would be abnormal. There are several folks who champion for Obama and think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I personally don't and I voted for him twice. I didn't have my feelings about him change for no reason. That's something you can't seem to understand or at least refuse to acknowledge.

 

And the piling on begins, by the same folks as usual, but I knew this would happen which is why I said my opinion isn't popular, it's cool.

 

I didn't say your opinion on Obama changed for no reason. I didn't even comment on your opinion of Obama.

 

Providing evidence that Obama did the exact thing you're praising Trump for is what you consider "piling on" now. Okay then.

 

And it definitely wasn't abnormal for him to do things like what I linked.

[zoogs]

I'm not interested in discussing my justification for voting for Trump. The sky has been falling for some since he won the presidency and what I say there won't matter. That's okay, I voted for him, I had several reasons why. Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards law enforcement and has acknowledged that we are being attacked on several different levels. He's also taken the time to contact widows of fallen officer personally to extend his condolences. Something that would be considered abnormal in an Obama presidency. It's the facts and something that is important to me.

I'm not asking you to be defensive, to be clear. I haven't followed this discussion all the way back, and I'm just asking you to support an assertion you freely made: that Obama, while saying the right things, did the wrong ones regarding law enforcement, and that Trump was different in this particular regard.

 

Like, when you say "Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards LEO" -- as you have before -- this points to a difference in saying the right things. But you specifically emphasized that Obama also said the right things politically, and that words don't count, only actions.

 

So as far as actions go, it's abnormal for Obama to contact widows of fallen officers personally. It's normal for Trump to do this. Is this a fair summary of your stance? Are there any other major contributing factors, or actions you will expect from the new administration?

 

I'm very sorry if you see this as piling on. Only trying to understand your perspective more comprehensively.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

It's cool, I've said my peace, I don't agree that Trump was voted in due to the discussion on racism. I'm not a fan of Obama and feel he's bagged on us and I'm not changing my stances on that. My thoughts aren't based on assumptions, they're based on things I've seen and heard over the years, to have to show proof over and over again is more work than I'm willing to put into the discussion. I'm not interested in going over every post I'm making. It's tiring honestly to have to respond to 5 different folks all the time that are taking different points in my post and wanting to discuss those at length, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just saying. I don't care enough honestly about the discussion anymore to keep it going. It's probably because I've been doing this for years here, it doesn't work, and it's become a pain and seems useless. I'm honestly not mad or irritated, I'm just over it at this point. Enjoy....

[Landlord]

Alright y'all, let's draw numbers to pile on bri one at a time

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Alright y'all, let's draw numbers to pile on bri one at a time

Solid post....

[zoogs]

My thoughts aren't based on assumptions, they're based on things I've seen and heard over the years

Really the only reason I'm harping on this point is because it seems to contradict the last thing I saw from you, which I thought focused almost all attention on the messaging. To date the impression I still have is that many law enforcement officers, such as yourself, feel Trump is more on their side because he makes a point of appealing directly to you. In politics, that's an important thing, certainly.

 

In every other area Trump has seemed to me a master of show and facade with little substance to back it up. You don't have to answer, but I'm genuinely curious what things might happen or not happen that would stop his supporters in police ranks from thinking he's taking the actions to back up the words that will assuredly continue.

[knapplc]

 

 

I guess I still don't see how Obama can be the sole, or main, culprit in worsening racial tensions or a more negative perception of police or creating a more hostile world for police when he continuously condemns violence against police, calls for peace and understanding and conversations, commends police for doing good work, and wants reform to get rid of the bad apples and the bad systems that give the rest a bad name. Not to mention officer deaths declining steadily for the last few decades.

 

It's selective hearing, combined with confirmation bias.

 

Sure it is....or maybe some folks that think he's doing a fantastic job are the ones with selective hearing? Look at the likes on this very thread to see that my opinion about this isn't popular by any means. It's as if my voice isn't heard on the matter to some folks. Most folks don't have a dog in this fight, they can't see where I'm coming from and almost refuse to listen to it because I'm possibly biased in their eyes based on my profession. I'm used to it, but you should listen, because our opinion on the matter does matter.

 

 

I'd like to meet the folks that think he's doing a fantastic job. Maybe you know some - I don't, but I'd be interested in their persepective.

 

The reason your opinion doesn't seem to be liked is that it seems uninformed and biased. Biased because you're a cop, biased because you're not Democrat, biased for whatever other reason? I couldn't begin to guess. But you don't come across as unbiased and reasonable toward Obama, you come across as someone with a preconceived bias who's looking for things to confirm that bias. If it was just me, it'd be a difference between you & me. If it was just a couple of people, maybe they're both wrong. But it's several people, across different demographics & different beliefs. Maybe that tells us something. Maybe you're the only sane person in the crowd.

 

Sure, you can believe you're not being heard by some folks. I tend to think some folks don't hear me, too. Probably all of us feel that way at times. My guess is, you don't feel Obama hears your voice. Maybe there's a good reason for that. It's hard to say because I haven't walked in your shoes - but I'm willing to listen to you to try to understand why. I'm also willing to believe I'm wrong, especially since I've been shown how I'm wrong so many times before. The willingness to believe oneself could be wrong is key, though.

 

I have a dog in this fight. I'm American, my mom was a cop, buried with an honor escort, and I have a preconceived bias towards favoring cops. I listen & listen & listen to their opinions.

[TGHusker]

Just a fyi on regulations. We don't have to rehash the discussion about what is too many - article points out the last minute executive orders

placing more regulatory burdens on Americans. It was expected. Obama has the pen and cell phone and still has his own agenda that he

rightfully can push. All presidents do it - last minute, end of term regulations, pardon's etc - just seems like a lousy way to govern.

 

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-shock-another-6-billion-in-midnight-regulations/article/2610168

[ZRod]

Just a fyi on regulations. We don't have to rehash the discussion about what is too many - article points out the last minute executive orders

placing more regulatory burdens on Americans. It was expected. Obama has the pen and cell phone and still has his own agenda that he

rightfully can push. All presidents do it - last minute, end of term regulations, pardon's etc - just seems like a lousy way to govern.

 

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-shock-another-6-billion-in-midnight-regulations/article/2610168

Well if one of the the three branches would do their job...

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

 

 

I guess I still don't see how Obama can be the sole, or main, culprit in worsening racial tensions or a more negative perception of police or creating a more hostile world for police when he continuously condemns violence against police, calls for peace and understanding and conversations, commends police for doing good work, and wants reform to get rid of the bad apples and the bad systems that give the rest a bad name. Not to mention officer deaths declining steadily for the last few decades.

 

It's selective hearing, combined with confirmation bias.

 

Sure it is....or maybe some folks that think he's doing a fantastic job are the ones with selective hearing? Look at the likes on this very thread to see that my opinion about this isn't popular by any means. It's as if my voice isn't heard on the matter to some folks. Most folks don't have a dog in this fight, they can't see where I'm coming from and almost refuse to listen to it because I'm possibly biased in their eyes based on my profession. I'm used to it, but you should listen, because our opinion on the matter does matter.

 

 

I'd like to meet the folks that think he's doing a fantastic job. Maybe you know some - I don't, but I'd be interested in their persepective.

 

The reason your opinion doesn't seem to be liked is that it seems uninformed and biased. Biased because you're a cop, biased because you're not Democrat, biased for whatever other reason? I couldn't begin to guess. But you don't come across as unbiased and reasonable toward Obama, you come across as someone with a preconceived bias who's looking for things to confirm that bias. If it was just me, it'd be a difference between you & me. If it was just a couple of people, maybe they're both wrong. But it's several people, across different demographics & different beliefs. Maybe that tells us something. Maybe you're the only sane person in the crowd.

 

Sure, you can believe you're not being heard by some folks. I tend to think some folks don't hear me, too. Probably all of us feel that way at times. My guess is, you don't feel Obama hears your voice. Maybe there's a good reason for that. It's hard to say because I haven't walked in your shoes - but I'm willing to listen to you to try to understand why. I'm also willing to believe I'm wrong, especially since I've been shown how I'm wrong so many times before. The willingness to believe oneself could be wrong is key, though.

 

I have a dog in this fight. I'm American, my mom was a cop, buried with an honor escort, and I have a preconceived bias towards favoring cops. I listen & listen & listen to their opinions.

 

Fair enough, I'm always going to side towards things that are favorable to my profession and rightfully so in my mind. Just like someone else is probably going to side with things towards what's favorable to them. I'm just not interested in having to justify all of my points, by looking up articles and proof over and over again only to have someone else post another article or proof contradicting what I'm saying. Seems pointless to me and you can't say I haven't had several discussions over the years on several things and put forth the effort for understanding, at least from my perspective and where I'm coming from. I'd rather just discuss the things I've heard and seen without having to do all that work. Maybe that's me being stubborn, opinionated, maybe it's ADHD, lazyness, or maybe I just stopped trying because folks refuse to listen to one another so I'll just become another person in the crowd with their opinion on things. Like I said, it's cool, I'm not mad or irritated at all. Just saying is all and I'm not one to mince words, it's a waste of time IMO and honestly I've realized as I've gotten older, I'm not very good at it. I'm certainly not always right either, I just have an opinion, I mean..............I'm married................I'm USED to being wrong!

 

I think Obama did a pretty decent job in his first term with what he had to deal with, which is why I voted for him again. He lost me in his second term with treatment of cops, racial issues and foreign relations to name a few. I personally think he's had a pretty soft handed approach to some of the things with foreign relations, some by choice, others because they were precarious situations. I think that's weakened the way some other countries look at us. It's what it is, Trump might be a nightmare, or he may not be, I personally just wasn't willing to vote for Hilary for reasons we've discussed before.

[knapplc]

I understand it can become wearying trying to support your position, especially in these conversations here. There are ALWAYS articles/stats/points to show the other point is wrong. It's a chore to "prove" anything, and even then it's iffy.

 

I think I've typed up and deleted more posts than I've actually hit submit on in the past two years. It just gets tiring.

 

We may seem to disagree on a few things BRI, but I've always respected you & the work you do. That may not always come across very well when we have different opinions, but that's always the case.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

I'm not interested in discussing my justification for voting for Trump. The sky has been falling for some since he won the presidency and what I say there won't matter. That's okay, I voted for him, I had several reasons why. Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards law enforcement and has acknowledged that we are being attacked on several different levels. He's also taken the time to contact widows of fallen officer personally to extend his condolences. Something that would be considered abnormal in an Obama presidency. It's the facts and something that is important to me.

I'm not asking you to be defensive, to be clear. I haven't followed this discussion all the way back, and I'm just asking you to support an assertion you freely made: that Obama, while saying the right things, did the wrong ones regarding law enforcement, and that Trump was different in this particular regard.

 

Like, when you say "Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards LEO" -- as you have before -- this points to a difference in saying the right things. But you specifically emphasized that Obama also said the right things politically, and that words don't count, only actions.

 

So as far as actions go, it's abnormal for Obama to contact widows of fallen officers personally. It's normal for Trump to do this. Is this a fair summary of your stance? Are there any other major contributing factors, or actions you will expect from the new administration?

 

I'm very sorry if you see this as piling on. Only trying to understand your perspective more comprehensively.

 

Words are the only thing I have to go by with Trump at this point. He isn't the sitting President yet so what can he really do? He didn't get the largest police unions support for no reason. He takes time to speak with us at his events, take photos with us, speak about what we're dealing with while he was on the campaign trail. And yes, he's called some widows of falling police officers. Now, if he starts showing that he only used us as puppets in his show, then I'll most certainly speak out about that. I want action, not words..........increase federal funding for local law enforcement to have access to funds to help assist them with building community programs. Re-open the door to have access to equipment necessary to deal with the changing environment we operate in today, i.e. terrorist attacks, civil unrest, etc. appoint justices to the supreme court that will protect rights, but not make our jobs harder as officers.

 

Obama has said things during his speeches that we see are in support of us and then we'll hear a back handed comment that enrages us. Actions of things he's done to irritate us and make us wonder if he even supports us are things like sending white house staff to Michael Brown's funeral, appointing a lawyer and financial backer of a cop killer to a civil rights post, not speaking out for days, weeks, ever when numerous cops are killed in a few days, not inflame racial tensions between police and the community they serve with some of the words he's using in the discussion, see the Dallas Police Officer's Funeral as an example.

[Landlord]

I understand it can become wearying trying to support your position, especially in these conversations here. There are ALWAYS articles/stats/points to show the other point is wrong. It's a chore to "prove" anything, and even then it's iffy.

 

I think I've typed up and deleted more posts than I've actually hit submit on in the past two years. It just gets tiring.

 

We may seem to disagree on a few things BRI, but I've always respected you & the work you do. That may not always come across very well when we have different opinions, but that's always the case.

 

 

 

Likewise.

[Fru]

 

 

I'm not interested in discussing my justification for voting for Trump. The sky has been falling for some since he won the presidency and what I say there won't matter. That's okay, I voted for him, I had several reasons why. Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards law enforcement and has acknowledged that we are being attacked on several different levels. He's also taken the time to contact widows of fallen officer personally to extend his condolences. Something that would be considered abnormal in an Obama presidency. It's the facts and something that is important to me.

I'm not asking you to be defensive, to be clear. I haven't followed this discussion all the way back, and I'm just asking you to support an assertion you freely made: that Obama, while saying the right things, did the wrong ones regarding law enforcement, and that Trump was different in this particular regard.

 

Like, when you say "Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards LEO" -- as you have before -- this points to a difference in saying the right things. But you specifically emphasized that Obama also said the right things politically, and that words don't count, only actions.

 

So as far as actions go, it's abnormal for Obama to contact widows of fallen officers personally. It's normal for Trump to do this. Is this a fair summary of your stance? Are there any other major contributing factors, or actions you will expect from the new administration?

 

I'm very sorry if you see this as piling on. Only trying to understand your perspective more comprehensively.

 

Words are the only thing I have to go by with Trump at this point. He isn't the sitting President yet so what can he really do? He didn't get the largest police unions support for no reason. He takes time to speak with us at his events, take photos with us, speak about what we're dealing with while he was on the campaign trail. And yes, he's called some widows of falling police officers. Now, if he starts showing that he only used us as puppets in his show, then I'll most certainly speak out about that. I want action, not words..........increase federal funding for local law enforcement to have access to funds to help assist them with building community programs. Re-open the door to have access to equipment necessary to deal with the changing environment we operate in today, i.e. terrorist attacks, civil unrest, etc. appoint justices to the supreme court that will protect rights, but not make our jobs harder as officers.

 

Obama has said things during his speeches that we see are in support of us and then we'll hear a back handed comment that enrages us. Actions of things he's done to irritate us and make us wonder if he even supports us are things like sending white house staff to Michael Brown's funeral, appointing a lawyer and financial backer of a cop killer to a civil rights post, not speaking out for days, weeks, ever when numerous cops are killed in a few days, not inflame racial tensions between police and the community they serve with some of the words he's using in the discussion, see the Dallas Police Officer's Funeral as an example.

 

 

So some of the things Obama has done/hasn't done have offended you as a police officer?

 

Must be difficult for a politician to upset or offend you like that. Would you consider standing in solidarity with some of the people that Trump has openly mocked/offended? POW's, the disabled and women come to mind.