Colin Kaepernick: dbag or not?

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know.....the entire issue of police and the black community is extremely frustrating to me. I support good police efforts and understand they have a very tough job to do. And...I understand there is, what I consider, a small minority that are bad cops.

 

However, this issue just pisses me off the more I read or hear about it.

 

Video shows police pepper-spraying teen girl

 

There is no way in hell this needed to happen the way it did. These officers need to have their badges taken and never see law enforcement as a job again.

 

And...yes...I understand she wasn't obeying police officers.

This is the problem with today's society, it's the officers fault, not the girls fault, yet she's the one who is resisting the officers who are trying to get her to stay there and her actions escalated the situation. I'm not saying I'm a fan of spraying the girl in the back of the vehicle, but she refused to put her legs in the vehicle. It's possible that the department's SOP's state, officers can do this there and they've been trained that way with the Chief of Police supporting their actions there. It comes down to one simple word folks................comply.

 

We're talking about a 15 year old girl who was just hit by a car. Here's another simple word: adapt. If you're a police officer you should adapt to the situation at hand. There were many actions leading up to the spraying that showed these officers were not using their brains.

 

Please, pick up an app and show us all how it's supposed to be done since you know it all.

 

 

 

Would you wrestle a 15 year old girl that weighs 100 pounds after she got hit by a car while riding her bike, just because she wants to go home? And then pepper spray her while she's inside a vehicle because her feet weren't inside it? If not, why are you defending those who did?

 

Why can't you practice what you preach and realize this is one incident and admitting that they did something wrong doesn't mean you're admitting that all police are like this? You're defending them as if all the police are perfect and it couldn't possibly be their fault. Others here are saying these SPECIFIC police officers did something wrong, because they did. We're not saying all police officers are in the wrong. We're not saying this is a common occurrence. You on the other hand give police the benefit of the doubt regardless of the evidence.

 

That's your opinion, you're wrong, but you can have your opinion. That's what people who hide on the internet and are mostly anonymous do these days unfortunately. I wasn't there, so I'm not going to say what I would or would not do because I'm grown up enough to know that I'm not going to have all the facts or how the situation went down from some video posted on the internet. I wait for facts to come out and the situation to play out before I make any determination. Try it sometime, it's pretty great.

 

 

 

So if I have an opinion I should start some sort of rally instead of discussing it on a forum? Or just not talk at all? What? Also, I don't live anywhere near where this happened. Talking about it on the internet is pretty much what I'm limited to. If it happened in my neighborhood that would be different.

 

No, by all means have your opinion, that's your right, just like my right to have my opinion isn't diminished because of the fact that I'm an officer. I just have a different perspective that you yourself refuse to acknowledge is even a realistic possibility. I'm immediately covering for every officer in your eyes, nevermind what my personal thoughts are in my head that are for me and me alone until I see all the facts.

 

 

I'm not talking about what's in your head. I'm talking about the posts you make. No one thinks your opinion is diminished because you're a police officer. People are constantly saying we know these are anomalies. You refuse to acknowledge those parts of the posts, and assume anytime someone brings this stuff up we're bashing all police officers, and you.

 

My problem is that folks are quick to knee jerk a situation for what the media portrays it as and think they know what's going on. Rather than biting their tongue and waiting for the facts to come out they spew nonsense on the internet and social media which builds hate and causes further problems. So I try an offer a different perspective that several folks here don't want to listen to.

 

 

I think everyone appreciates your perspective.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know.....the entire issue of police and the black community is extremely frustrating to me. I support good police efforts and understand they have a very tough job to do. And...I understand there is, what I consider, a small minority that are bad cops.

 

However, this issue just pisses me off the more I read or hear about it.

 

Video shows police pepper-spraying teen girl

 

There is no way in hell this needed to happen the way it did. These officers need to have their badges taken and never see law enforcement as a job again.

 

And...yes...I understand she wasn't obeying police officers.

This is the problem with today's society, it's the officers fault, not the girls fault, yet she's the one who is resisting the officers who are trying to get her to stay there and her actions escalated the situation. I'm not saying I'm a fan of spraying the girl in the back of the vehicle, but she refused to put her legs in the vehicle. It's possible that the department's SOP's state, officers can do this there and they've been trained that way with the Chief of Police supporting their actions there. It comes down to one simple word folks................comply.

 

We're talking about a 15 year old girl who was just hit by a car. Here's another simple word: adapt. If you're a police officer you should adapt to the situation at hand. There were many actions leading up to the spraying that showed these officers were not using their brains.

 

Please, pick up an app and show us all how it's supposed to be done since you think it could've been handled differently. There is no perfect way to handle something, there are other ways and that's exactly what they are. Just another way to handle something.

 

 

 

There were lots of ways to handle it that were better than this. And what are you talking about with the app stuff? I guess you're implying someone MUST be a police officer in order to have an opinion on what what they should and shouldn't be allowed to do. That's illogical.

 

Some of you people in here are fantastic at implying stuff and adding words and meaning from a post. So I've started doing it so the playing field is even. Nope, I said if you think you can do better then pick up an app. Meaning rather than sit on the sidelines to this mess and be a shouldacouldawould come out a play on the field and maybe you can teach some officers a thing or two. Or maybe you'll see what the reality of what we're dealing with is. Either way someone will learn something and if we are learning and evolving that's a problem for anyone.

 

 

Aren't you confirming exactly what I just said? That you must be a police officer to have an opinion on what they shoudl and shouldn't be allowed to do? That's literally what you're saying in this reply.

 

Reminds me of people who think those who haven't coached or played football aren't allowed to discuss it.

 

Think what you want, as long as it makes you feel like you're right, which you constantly want everyone to believe, I'm happy. You're going to read my posts with a slant and jaded view anyways so I'm not going to try and explain it to you until I'm blue in the face. It's cool........

 

 

 

You say I need to pick up an application and become a police officer so I can show people "how it's done."

 

I say you're implying I need to become a police officer in order to have an opinion on "how it's done."

 

Which part of that is incorrect?

 

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying if YOU can bring something to your local agency to bridge a gap between the police and the community........then pick up that app and apply and make a difference. I work for a fantastic agency that has great support from our community. We work together to solve our problems and keep each other safe. I'm grateful to have the opportunity that I have to work in such a great community and am happy that we don't have these civil disturbances here. Maybe you've got some great ideas for community building programs you can bring to your leadership in your area. I have no idea if you do or not.

[Landlord]

Those situations would definitely have gone differently if people would have complied with orders.

 

 

My trouble is sometimes those orders are unlawful, sometimes they're intimidation tactics and citizens fear for their life and don't know how to respond, and sometimes fail to comply with certain orders really isn't a big deal and shouldn't necessarily, in my opinion, result in someone dying.

 

 

I did a lot of stupid sh#t as a kid. I would have a lot of conversations with police officers. I wouldn't comply with instructions given to me all the time and it was fine. For whatever reason, be it my skin color, the culture of my small town, my 'general' respectfulness, a combination of a million different things, whatever, I always got to end up going home at night.

 

Too many people in this country live in a different reality than I did.

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know.....the entire issue of police and the black community is extremely frustrating to me. I support good police efforts and understand they have a very tough job to do. And...I understand there is, what I consider, a small minority that are bad cops.

 

However, this issue just pisses me off the more I read or hear about it.

 

Video shows police pepper-spraying teen girl

 

There is no way in hell this needed to happen the way it did. These officers need to have their badges taken and never see law enforcement as a job again.

 

And...yes...I understand she wasn't obeying police officers.

This is the problem with today's society, it's the officers fault, not the girls fault, yet she's the one who is resisting the officers who are trying to get her to stay there and her actions escalated the situation. I'm not saying I'm a fan of spraying the girl in the back of the vehicle, but she refused to put her legs in the vehicle. It's possible that the department's SOP's state, officers can do this there and they've been trained that way with the Chief of Police supporting their actions there. It comes down to one simple word folks................comply.

 

We're talking about a 15 year old girl who was just hit by a car. Here's another simple word: adapt. If you're a police officer you should adapt to the situation at hand. There were many actions leading up to the spraying that showed these officers were not using their brains.

 

Please, pick up an app and show us all how it's supposed to be done since you think it could've been handled differently. There is no perfect way to handle something, there are other ways and that's exactly what they are. Just another way to handle something.

 

 

 

There were lots of ways to handle it that were better than this. And what are you talking about with the app stuff? I guess you're implying someone MUST be a police officer in order to have an opinion on what what they should and shouldn't be allowed to do. That's illogical.

 

Some of you people in here are fantastic at implying stuff and adding words and meaning from a post. So I've started doing it so the playing field is even. Nope, I said if you think you can do better then pick up an app. Meaning rather than sit on the sidelines to this mess and be a shouldacouldawould come out a play on the field and maybe you can teach some officers a thing or two. Or maybe you'll see what the reality of what we're dealing with is. Either way someone will learn something and if we are learning and evolving that's a problem for anyone.

 

 

Aren't you confirming exactly what I just said? That you must be a police officer to have an opinion on what they shoudl and shouldn't be allowed to do? That's literally what you're saying in this reply.

 

Reminds me of people who think those who haven't coached or played football aren't allowed to discuss it.

 

Think what you want, as long as it makes you feel like you're right, which you constantly want everyone to believe, I'm happy. You're going to read my posts with a slant and jaded view anyways so I'm not going to try and explain it to you until I'm blue in the face. It's cool........

 

 

 

You say I need to pick up an application and become a police officer so I can show people "how it's done."

 

I say you're implying I need to become a police officer in order to have an opinion on "how it's done."

 

Which part of that is incorrect?

 

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying if YOU can bring something to your local agency to bridge a gap between the police and the community........then pick up that app and apply and make a difference. I work for a fantastic agency that has great support from our community. We work together to solve our problems and keep each other safe. I'm grateful to have the opportunity that I have to work in such a great community and am happy that we don't have these civil disturbances here. Maybe you've got some great ideas for community building programs you can bring to your leadership in your area. I have no idea if you do or not.

 

 

Alright, sorry.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

 

 

 

 

 

It comes down to one simple word folks................comply.

 

No matter what, or else.

It's scary that some think we should live in such a totalitarian state.

 

People seem to forget that we pay our police and they serve at our pleasure. A badge isn't a license to act as a dictator.

 

Luckily 99.999% of police do a great job and exercise sound judgment in tough situations day in and day out.

 

Serve at your pleasure? So you just want the police to allow people to do whatever they want and not enforce the laws? And obviously get shot or shot at first before we react? lmao, makes total sense................

 

 

It was bad wording but he's saying taxes pay for police.

 

Also: "Luckily 99.999% of police do a great job and exercise sound judgment in tough situations day in and day out."

 

Yep, we do, so everyone can't stop labeling us and listening to the B.S. the media is trying to push. I pay taxes too, I'm not exempt from them. And when people say "serve at our pleasure" or "civil servant" they're usually using it in a derogatory way IMO.

 

 

 

Some media might be doing that. Some ignoramuses might think it. Nobody in this discussion does. And judging by CM's other words on the matter I don't think he is using it in a derogatory way.

 

Fair enough, I just might be over sensitive to the terms then. I realize that I serve the public, in fact I tell officers all the time that we "get the opportunity to serve this community so we need to realize how lucky we truly are!"

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Those situations would definitely have gone differently if people would have complied with orders.

 

 

My trouble is sometimes those orders are unlawful, sometimes they're intimidation tactics and citizens fear for their life and don't know how to respond, and sometimes fail to comply with certain orders really isn't a big deal and shouldn't necessarily, in my opinion, result in someone dying.

 

 

I did a lot of stupid sh#t as a kid. I would have a lot of conversations with police officers. I wouldn't comply with instructions given to me all the time and it was fine. For whatever reason, be it my skin color, the culture of my small town, my 'general' respectfulness, a combination of a million different things, whatever, I always got to end up going home at night.

 

Too many people in this country live in a different reality than I did.

The thing you can't seem to understand though is it isn't time to play curbside lawyer while a situation is going down. That's how situations spiral out of control and lives are ruined on BOTH sides of the situation. If it's unlawful, it'll come out in court and the officer will learn something. If you disagree with an officer you can do it respectfully and have a conversation, but if you decide to act ridiculous and the situation starts going south the police are going to react based on their training and what they believe is the way to respond in that moment. You are probably one of the more stubborn people I've ever spoken to because I've had this discussion with you numerous times.

[Landlord]

BRI, how do you imagine you would have approached a number of these high-profile situations where unarmed black men have been killed? Like if you were the officer in that position, but it was within your community - do you think you'd act pretty consistently the same, more aggressive, more tepid, etc.?

[BIGREDIOWAN]

BRI, how do you imagine you would have approached a number of these high-profile situations where unarmed black men have been killed? Like if you were the officer in that position, but it was within your community - do you think you'd act pretty consistently the same, more aggressive, more tepid, etc.?

I literally can't answer that. I don't have all the information needed to make an informed decision and I'm not in the rapidly involving moment being forced to make decisions. That's part of the problem, a decision that was made in mere seconds, is picked apart for months without the same emotions and thought processes being applied in both processes. It's not a cop out by any means, it's impossible to answer, at least for me.

[HuskerNation1]

 

When I watch a game, I don't want to have to think about the political motivations of the players I am watching.

 

Yeah, when I watch sports I don't want to be reminded that those are actual real human beings with their own thoughts and beliefs and convictions and personalities either. I would much rather they just shut up and be exploited for their physical abilities for my own enjoyment. No need to actually talk, or think, or share, or care about anything. Just do the thing with the ball and get the points so I'm happy.

 

 

You got it LOMS....the same thing goes with Hollywood. I hardly watch movies anymore due to celebrities who are paid way too much money to use their fame as a platform to push their own political agenda. Now would you feel differently if players were protesting against Mr. Obama or some liberal politician?

[HuskerNation1]

 

Did you all see that the Seattle Mariners catcher was suspended without pay for the rest of the season for demonstrating his right to free speech?

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/09/23/steve-clevenger-suspended-racist-charlotte-tweets-seattle-mariners/90908618/

 

As with Kaepernick, I don't agree with Clevenger's vocal protest, but why should he not have the right to voice his opinion just as CK is doing. Perhaps the NFL and MLB have different contracts. Regardless, I just hate the fact that this country has become so divided in recent years that it's now creeping into sports. When I watch a game, I don't want to have to think about the political motivations of the players I am watching. But, this is Obama's America, and the divisions are deeper than they have been in years.

Obama's America? Are you for real here? Atheletes have been politically active since before I can remember.

 

 

There have always been divisions in this country, but never in my lifetime like it is now. He and his administration (Eric Holder and others) have helped incite this divisiveness. That is the left's playbook...racial and class warfare in order to secure votes.

[NM11046]

 

 

When I watch a game, I don't want to have to think about the political motivations of the players I am watching.

 

Yeah, when I watch sports I don't want to be reminded that those are actual real human beings with their own thoughts and beliefs and convictions and personalities either. I would much rather they just shut up and be exploited for their physical abilities for my own enjoyment. No need to actually talk, or think, or share, or care about anything. Just do the thing with the ball and get the points so I'm happy.

 

 

You got it LOMS....the same thing goes with Hollywood. I hardly watch movies anymore due to celebrities who are paid way too much money to use their fame as a platform to push their own political agenda. Now would you feel differently if players were protesting against Mr. Obama or some liberal politician?

 

See now I read LOMS post with a totally different tone than what you did.

 

I feel as if there is very much a double standard with athletes - we expect them to be good role models for kids and fans, but when they do something that doesn't align to one's beliefs it's a problem. Who complains about when an athlete goes to a hospital in their jersey to visit a kid? Who had a problem when DeAngelo Williams paid for 53 mammograms for women who couldn't afford them on their own because that cause has personal meaning to him?

 

You can disagree with a players stance on something, but they are people, with opinions - you can respect them for their abilities and then turn off the tv or leave the game. Same with movie stars.

[HuskerNation1]

 

 

 

When I watch a game, I don't want to have to think about the political motivations of the players I am watching.

 

Yeah, when I watch sports I don't want to be reminded that those are actual real human beings with their own thoughts and beliefs and convictions and personalities either. I would much rather they just shut up and be exploited for their physical abilities for my own enjoyment. No need to actually talk, or think, or share, or care about anything. Just do the thing with the ball and get the points so I'm happy.

 

 

You got it LOMS....the same thing goes with Hollywood. I hardly watch movies anymore due to celebrities who are paid way too much money to use their fame as a platform to push their own political agenda. Now would you feel differently if players were protesting against Mr. Obama or some liberal politician?

 

See now I read LOMS post with a totally different tone than what you did.

 

I feel as if there is very much a double standard with athlete - we expect them to be good role models for kids and fans, but when they do something that doesn't align to one's beliefs it's a problem. Who complains about when an athlete goes to a hospital in their jersey to visit a kid? Who had a problem when DeAngelo Williams paid for 53 mammograms for women who couldn't afford them on their own because that cause has personal meaning to him?

 

You can disagree with a players stance on something, but they are people, with opinions - you can respect them for their abilities and then turn off the tv or leave the game. Same with movie stars.

 

 

Everything you said can also be said of our police officers that CK and others are protesting. Police officers are some of the best in our society, and sure there are a few bad apples, but wearing socks and saying things that are nasty about police officers goes over the top.

 

As for being role models, I don't expect athletes to always be role models, and realize many will make mistakes. But there is a difference between making a personal mistake such as doing drugs or getting in a fight, and making a political statement that is offensive to many who have died for this country, and is also offensive toward the 99% of officers putting their lives on the line day in and day out.

 

I would personally like to see the NFL Owners who are supportive of our police force bring out officers to every game and make a statement before the national anthem thanking them for protecting our communities and putting their lives on the line. That would be a way to balance out all the attention that CK and these other protesters are getting.

[cm husker]

 

 

 

 

It comes down to one simple word folks................comply.

 

No matter what, or else.

It's scary that some think we should live in such a totalitarian state.

 

People seem to forget that we pay our police and they serve at our pleasure. A badge isn't a license to act as a dictator.

 

Luckily 99.999% of police do a great job and exercise sound judgment in tough situations day in and day out.

Serve at your pleasure? So you just want the police to allow people to do whatever they want and not enforce the laws? And obviously get shot or shot at first before we react? lmao, makes total sense................

The problem is, police seem to have the mentality that their job is only to enforce and not to serve and protect.

 

Based on your tone and straw arguments, it's clear this is an emotional topic for you and you aren't really equipped to have a rational discussion. Just my sense of it. And I base that on the fact that I've repeatedly stated that most officers do the right thing under tough circumstances, but you say that I'm painting police with a broad brush and imply that I want them to be shot.

 

Police are paid to exercise discretion and take risk. If they don't like that level of risk or can't exercise good judgment, they shouldn't be police.

 

Period.

[NM11046]

 

 

 

 

When I watch a game, I don't want to have to think about the political motivations of the players I am watching.

 

Yeah, when I watch sports I don't want to be reminded that those are actual real human beings with their own thoughts and beliefs and convictions and personalities either. I would much rather they just shut up and be exploited for their physical abilities for my own enjoyment. No need to actually talk, or think, or share, or care about anything. Just do the thing with the ball and get the points so I'm happy.

 

 

You got it LOMS....the same thing goes with Hollywood. I hardly watch movies anymore due to celebrities who are paid way too much money to use their fame as a platform to push their own political agenda. Now would you feel differently if players were protesting against Mr. Obama or some liberal politician?

 

See now I read LOMS post with a totally different tone than what you did.

 

I feel as if there is very much a double standard with athlete - we expect them to be good role models for kids and fans, but when they do something that doesn't align to one's beliefs it's a problem. Who complains about when an athlete goes to a hospital in their jersey to visit a kid? Who had a problem when DeAngelo Williams paid for 53 mammograms for women who couldn't afford them on their own because that cause has personal meaning to him?

 

You can disagree with a players stance on something, but they are people, with opinions - you can respect them for their abilities and then turn off the tv or leave the game. Same with movie stars.

 

 

Everything you said can also be said of our police officers that CK and others are protesting. Police officers are some of the best in our society, and sure there are a few bad apples, but wearing socks and saying things that are nasty about police officers goes over the top.

 

As for being role models, I don't expect athletes to always be role models, and realize many will make mistakes. But there is a difference between making a personal mistake such as doing drugs or getting in a fight, and making a political statement that is offensive to many who have died for this country, and is also offensive toward the 99% of officers putting their lives on the line day in and day out.

 

I would personally like to see the NFL Owners who are supportive of our police force bring out officers to every game and make a statement before the national anthem thanking them for protecting our communities and putting their lives on the line. That would be a way to balance out all the attention that CK and these other protesters are getting.

 

True - maybe I've missed something, but I thought he was protesting the unfair treatment of blacks in America. I haven't seen anything on it being specific to police (admittedly though I've been out of the country). I guess it's the platform they have that bothers you? What he's saying is being said by many others, but they don't have tv time. I think those who have suffered and sacrificed for our country did so in order to make sure we had the freedoms we're used to ... including expressing our beliefs however we choose.

 

When I was away I found my attitude and overall mental health to be so much more positive because I was limited in what US "news" I had access to. Decided it's healthier for me to just dial in to the news for information, not the hot button scandals where everybody gets emotional and pitted against each other.

 

BTW outside of the US I was consistently asked four questions: 1. What do I think of Trump? 2. How in the world did Trump get this far and do I think there's actually a chance he'd be elected? 3. How could someone that aligns himself with Putin in a positive way get any momentum? 4. Why do so many americans have tattoos?

[cm husker]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It comes down to one simple word folks................comply.

 

No matter what, or else.

It's scary that some think we should live in such a totalitarian state.

 

People seem to forget that we pay our police and they serve at our pleasure. A badge isn't a license to act as a dictator.

 

Luckily 99.999% of police do a great job and exercise sound judgment in tough situations day in and day out.

Serve at your pleasure? So you just want the police to allow people to do whatever they want and not enforce the laws? And obviously get shot or shot at first before we react? lmao, makes total sense................

It was bad wording but he's saying taxes pay for police.

 

Also: "Luckily 99.999% of police do a great job and exercise sound judgment in tough situations day in and day out."

Yep, we do, so everyone can't stop labeling us and listening to the B.S. the media is trying to push. I pay taxes too, I'm not exempt from them. And when people say "serve at our pleasure" or "civil servant" they're usually using it in a derogatory way IMO.

 

Some media might be doing that. Some ignoramuses might think it. Nobody in this discussion does. And judging by CM's other words on the matter I don't think he is using it in a derogatory way.

Correct. Everyone in the executive branch of the government serves at the pleasure of the people of the applicable community.

 

I did not mean it in a derogatory way at all. Just that the priority and mentality needs to be one of service. Not enforcement.

 

We also need to make life easier on our police and end the misguided Prohibitionist policies of most states and the fed.