SMH

[Bigred_inSD]

Has anyone here heard Changes by 2pac and warzone by TI? Warzone was just released and is meant for these times, changes still applies after all these years

[theknife]

 

I agree with you. What you do in your home vs. in a public setting is as vastly different as comparing reading the paper in your underwear in public to taking a silent knee during the national anthem. One of these is clearly a "look at me! moment" and the other is kneeling in solidarity to highlight racial inequality they perceive.

Historically, and I could be mistaken...but historically, roughly 100% of protests have been made in public. It's kind of the nature of protests.

 

Well, see Kony 2012 or any of the other myriad of internet activism that has taken place over the past 15 years.

 

My point wasn't as literal as it is being taken. The point was these are armchair patriots getting upset about a respectful exercise of civil disobedience and said patriots weren't all worked up over the disrespecting of the flag by thousands of drunken fans that occurs every football weekend.

[NM11046]

When are black athletes going to learn from the "average American" how to behave during the National Anthem?

 

I'm more offended at the guy who is texting on his cell phone in this picture and the folks talking and laughing with each other while holding the flag. Who is really doing the disrespecting here?

[Landlord]

I sometimes read the morning paper in my underwear on the couch, but I don't do that at Memorial Stadium during the National Anthem. Different things are appropriate at different times and different places, so don't be intentionally obtuse and think it is being clever.

 

It's not that they refuse to stand for the national anthem, it is that they have to make a public display of themselves with their "Look at me!" moment. I put it into the same category as the guys who drop the football on the half yard line so they can start their end zone antics early, nothing more.

 

 

I'm sorry, did the players have a say in whether or not they would be asked to publicly display their allegiance to the flag before the sporting event? Doesn't seem to me they have much of a choice if they feel they shouldn't do that, because they are in a public environment. Would you rather they just stay in the locker room? I'm sure that would go over well.

 

 

 

 

 

Let's keep this grounded in reality: True Patriots do a lot more than kneel at a football game because they saw somebody else do it. Expressing dissatisfaction in something isn't the same as ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM. Myself, I think this kneeling thing is blind, but let's see if it turns into something constructive outside of the stadium by those who are doing it. Kind of a "What else ya' got?" determination.

 

I myself have always said that there is more respect to be found for this country in picking up a bag of litter than flying the flag. I do both. These guys?...the verdict has yet to come back, since they have the rest of their lives to back up what they say and think...or not.

 

 

Those who are doing it are, at least tangentially, tied to Black Lives Matter. This is a pretty common criticism of #BLM - that they aren't accomplishing anything. Problem is it's not true. They've met with Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and others, and have gotten attention paid towards more progressive platforms as far as dealing with racial injustice. They forced Tim Wolfe, the Mizzou President, to resign (he's a scumbag). They got Cal to pull out of $30 million in prison investments. They've launched the Police Union Contract Project. Their protests led to damning DOJ investigations into the Ferguson and Baltimore police departments, both found to be perpetuating awful unhealthy and discriminatory cultures. They've improved the percentages of Americans, and particularly White Americans, who believe/acknowledge that racial inequality actually exists (46% a year ago to 60% now ----- 39% of whites to 53% now). The list goes on and on and it isn't just exclusively targeted against police.

 

 

It's interesting that part of your criticism is that kneeling during the national anthem is a public display of attention, yet you then somehow assume that you know what people are or aren't doing either in private or in ways that aren't getting media attention to support the causes they believe in.

[In the Deed the Glory]

 

When are black athletes going to learn from the "average American" how to behave during the National Anthem?

 

I'm more offended at the guy who is texting on his cell phone in this picture and the folks talking and laughing with each other while holding the flag. Who is really doing the disrespecting here?

 

I kind think that was his point...

[knapplc]

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, because it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms.

Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.

 

 

[NM11046]

 

 

When are black athletes going to learn from the "average American" how to behave during the National Anthem?

 

I'm more offended at the guy who is texting on his cell phone in this picture and the folks talking and laughing with each other while holding the flag. Who is really doing the disrespecting here?

 

I kind think that was his point...

 

My bad - missed the sarcasm. I agree w/him then. :-)

[Undone]

 

 

 

I agree with you. What you do in your home vs. in a public setting is as vastly different as comparing reading the paper in your underwear in public to taking a silent knee during the national anthem. One of these is clearly a "look at me! moment" and the other is kneeling in solidarity to highlight racial inequality they perceive.

Historically, and I could be mistaken...but historically, roughly 100% of protests have been made in public. It's kind of the nature of protests.

Well, see Kony 2012 or any of the other myriad of internet activism that has taken place over the past 15 years.

 

My point wasn't as literal as it is being taken. The point was these are armchair patriots getting upset about a respectful exercise of civil disobedience and said patriots weren't all worked up over the disrespecting of the flag by thousands of drunken fans that occurs every football weekend.

Gotcha. I missed that, thanks for explaining.

[NM11046]

 

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, because it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms.

Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.

 

 

 

 

The only one I like better than that one is Jeff Daniels "America" rant from Newsroom - I can't figure out how to embed here, but the link is below, and the best of it:

 

" ... It sure used to be (the greatest country in the world). We stood up for what was right. We fought for moral reasons. We passed laws, struck down laws - for moral reasons. We waged wars on poverty, not on poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors, we put our money where our mouths were and we never beat our chest. We built great, big things, made ungodly technological advanced, explored the universe, cured diseases and we cultivated the world's greatest artists AND the world's greatest economy. We reached for the stars, acted like men. We aspired to intelligence, we didn't belittle it. It didn't make us feel inferior. We didn't identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election and we didn't scare so easy. We were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed... by great men, men who were revered. First step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one. America is not the greatest country in the world anymore.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyzDRc34l2g

[Landlord]

[knapplc]

 

" ... It sure used to be (the greatest country in the world). We stood up for what was right. We fought for moral reasons. We passed laws, struck down laws - for moral reasons. We waged wars on poverty, not on poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors, we put our money where our mouths were and we never beat our chest. We built great, big things, made ungodly technological advanced, explored the universe, cured diseases and we cultivated the world's greatest artists AND the world's greatest economy. We reached for the stars, acted like men. We aspired to intelligence, we didn't belittle it. It didn't make us feel inferior. We didn't identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election and we didn't scare so easy. We were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed... by great men, men who were revered. First step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one. America is not the greatest country in the world anymore.”

 

Debates like this are one of the ways we get back there. These debates expose biases, both good and bad, and allow us to examine them in a public forum. We've been lazy and complacent for too long. We've let our bigotries fester and grow. Maybe, with this discourse, we're lancing that boil. It's painful and messy, but correcting faults is rarely easy.

[GBR62]

I'm taking a knee for the rest of the season. NO MORE BIG RED. I also have rights.

[Jim Hammer]

Listen, I am okay (EDIT: actually I should say I fully support it) with the kneeling. It is their right to protest in a civil manner however they see fit. I also wonder what that is going to accomplish? This would be to raise awareness, but the issue is front and center at this point.

 

There is a big problem in this country, and it really does not have to do with race. Racism at this point, is a terribly unfortunate side effect of economic policies in this country. It stems from the unbelievable disparity of wealth that has allowed the top 1% of wage earners to control 90% of the wealth in America. The cycle of poverty is the root of this. African Americans have long suffered from the oppression of the early 20th century. Legal racism (segregation) made sure they lost out on the prosperity of the Industrial Revolution and the great jobs that came out of that which allowed many Americans to climb out of poverty. Post-dust bowl America became prosperous because of the military-industrial complex that spurred manufacturing and then economy as a whole. Again, African Americans (actually all minorities) were excluded until the late 1960s. When generations of people are raised in a level of extreme poverty, eventually crime allows them to make ends meet. Thus, poverty brings crime and therefore more contact with police officers. Thereby making it more likely for "racism" to be engrained in the officers who are working these areas. I put racism in quotes because even though it seems to be mostly African Americans and is therefore racism, it wouldn't have mattered the color of skin of the people put in this position. In fact, all of this is about a different color entirely...

 

Green.

I believe the income disparity in this country is the biggest problem it faces, but racism still exists. The black middle class still isn't treated the same as whites.

[Bowfin]

Do you get pulled over a lot less often because you're not Black? Is it easier for you to get a job because your name isn't Dwayne or Tyrone? Both of these things have been studied and the answer is yes for both. I could probably list 50 more things. People who think it doesn't exist are willfully obtuse

 

Studies also show that police give, on average, more time before they start shooting at a black man than they do a white man. That's a big plus in my book. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/13/why-a-massive-new-study-on-police-shootings-of-whites-and-blacks-is-so-controversial/

 

If Tyrone and Dwayne have a high school diploma and no prison record and a good work record, send them to Columbus. They can get themselves a full time job with benefits this week at one of the factories.

 

But go ahead, list the 50 more things...literally list them.

[Bigred_inSD]

I'm taking a knee for the rest of the season. NO MORE BIG RED. I also have rights.

yes you do.

 

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

Or do, maybe it will knock some sense into you.