Vice Presidential Debate

[TGHusker]

TGH, I actually have a bit of a contrarian view on the effect of this debate.

 

If you look strictly at the debate between two people, Pence did win. He came off as cool, calm, and collected in the face of criticism, and that's probably why the far-right base loves him so much. Former radio show guy, he presents well. Like Trump, he's a showman, though of a distinctly different flavor. Pretty effective at debate tactics, pivoted well from being attacked to lashing out at Clinton/Obama.

 

I do feel it's necessary to highlight what Zoogs pointed out, though... Pence was just dancing around reality as if it didn't exist. He was lying through his smiling teeth pretty much all night, and the Clinton campaign already has a video out this morning of him denying Trump's statements followed right away by the original clip of Trump saying them. It's easy to look calm and collected when the truthfulness of what you're saying doesn't matter.

 

Kaine, on the other hand, did come off as spastic, rambunctious, over-prepared, and of course, interjected a ton. Apparently it tweaked Trump, because he's projecting again this morning about how Kaine's interruptions shouldn't be allowed.

 

But he went into the debate with one mission: attack Trump all night. And it worked. Though he laid it on pretty thick, he reminded tons of people who might otherwise have forgotten-- or not known-- about all of the awful things Trump has said and proposed over the course of his campaign.

 

As we've seen, the polling tends to trend AWAY from whoever is in the headline. Kaine effectively bypassed the spotlight to pass it on to the worst aspects of Trump's campaign, and Pence trying to deny they never happened. As long as the headlines stay on Trump, I'm happy.

 

As an aside, Pence seems like a reasonable, moderate choice by comparison to Trump or Clinton. He's really not. He's like, WAY far right. QMany is right that his virulent anti-LGBTQ past should be examined more. Well, and as I've said, his penchant for peddling anti-science views and other nonsense. Read up on his history a bit and see if you actually like him. I'm of the mind he could be disassembled fairly easy if thrust into the spotlight for his history.

I agree wt the bold. He basically 'sacrificed' winning the debate for the purpose of keeping the one message alive.

[NM11046]

TGH, I actually have a bit of a contrarian view on the effect of this debate.

 

If you look strictly at the debate between two people, Pence did win. He came off as cool, calm, and collected in the face of criticism, and that's probably why the far-right base loves him so much. Former radio show guy, he presents well. Like Trump, he's a showman, though of a distinctly different flavor. Pretty effective at debate tactics, pivoted well from being attacked to lashing out at Clinton/Obama.

 

I do feel it's necessary to highlight what Zoogs pointed out, though... Pence was just dancing around reality as if it didn't exist. He was lying through his smiling teeth pretty much all night, and the Clinton campaign already has a video out this morning of him denying Trump's statements followed right away by the original clip of Trump saying them. It's easy to look calm and collected when the truthfulness of what you're saying doesn't matter.

 

Kaine, on the other hand, did come off as spastic, rambunctious, over-prepared, and of course, interjected a ton. Apparently it tweaked Trump, because he's projecting again this morning about how Kaine's interruptions shouldn't be allowed.

 

But he went into the debate with one mission: attack Trump all night. And it worked. Though he laid it on pretty thick, he reminded tons of people who might otherwise have forgotten-- or not known-- about all of the awful things Trump has said and proposed over the course of his campaign.

 

As we've seen, the polling tends to trend AWAY from whoever is in the headline. Kaine effectively bypassed the spotlight to pass it on to the worst aspects of Trump's campaign, and Pence trying to deny they never happened. As long as the headlines stay on Trump, I'm happy.

 

As an aside, Pence seems like a reasonable, moderate choice by comparison to Trump or Clinton. He's really not. He's like, WAY far right. QMany is right that his virulent anti-LGBTQ past should be examined more. Well, and as I've said, his penchant for peddling anti-science views and other nonsense. Read up on his history a bit and see if you actually like him. I'm of the mind he could be disassembled fairly easy if thrust into the spotlight for his history.

I like you more and more each day Dude. Just felt like saying that.

[TGHusker]

 

TGH, I actually have a bit of a contrarian view on the effect of this debate.

 

If you look strictly at the debate between two people, Pence did win. He came off as cool, calm, and collected in the face of criticism, and that's probably why the far-right base loves him so much. Former radio show guy, he presents well. Like Trump, he's a showman, though of a distinctly different flavor. Pretty effective at debate tactics, pivoted well from being attacked to lashing out at Clinton/Obama.

 

I do feel it's necessary to highlight what Zoogs pointed out, though... Pence was just dancing around reality as if it didn't exist. He was lying through his smiling teeth pretty much all night, and the Clinton campaign already has a video out this morning of him denying Trump's statements followed right away by the original clip of Trump saying them. It's easy to look calm and collected when the truthfulness of what you're saying doesn't matter.

 

Kaine, on the other hand, did come off as spastic, rambunctious, over-prepared, and of course, interjected a ton. Apparently it tweaked Trump, because he's projecting again this morning about how Kaine's interruptions shouldn't be allowed.

 

But he went into the debate with one mission: attack Trump all night. And it worked. Though he laid it on pretty thick, he reminded tons of people who might otherwise have forgotten-- or not known-- about all of the awful things Trump has said and proposed over the course of his campaign.

 

As we've seen, the polling tends to trend AWAY from whoever is in the headline. Kaine effectively bypassed the spotlight to pass it on to the worst aspects of Trump's campaign, and Pence trying to deny they never happened. As long as the headlines stay on Trump, I'm happy.

 

As an aside, Pence seems like a reasonable, moderate choice by comparison to Trump or Clinton. He's really not. He's like, WAY far right. QMany is right that his virulent anti-LGBTQ past should be examined more. Well, and as I've said, his penchant for peddling anti-science views and other nonsense. Read up on his history a bit and see if you actually like him. I'm of the mind he could be disassembled fairly easy if thrust into the spotlight for his history.

I like you more and more each day Dude. Just felt like saying that.

 

 

 

Yes, Dude is a good guy - even if we come from different perspectives. You can disagree wtout being disagreeable.

[NM11046]

 

 

 

 

TGH, I actually have a bit of a contrarian view on the effect of this debate.

 

If you look strictly at the debate between two people, Pence did win. He came off as cool, calm, and collected in the face of criticism, and that's probably why the far-right base loves him so much. Former radio show guy, he presents well. Like Trump, he's a showman, though of a distinctly different flavor. Pretty effective at debate tactics, pivoted well from being attacked to lashing out at Clinton/Obama.

 

I do feel it's necessary to highlight what Zoogs pointed out, though... Pence was just dancing around reality as if it didn't exist. He was lying through his smiling teeth pretty much all night, and the Clinton campaign already has a video out this morning of him denying Trump's statements followed right away by the original clip of Trump saying them. It's easy to look calm and collected when the truthfulness of what you're saying doesn't matter.

 

Kaine, on the other hand, did come off as spastic, rambunctious, over-prepared, and of course, interjected a ton. Apparently it tweaked Trump, because he's projecting again this morning about how Kaine's interruptions shouldn't be allowed.

 

But he went into the debate with one mission: attack Trump all night. And it worked. Though he laid it on pretty thick, he reminded tons of people who might otherwise have forgotten-- or not known-- about all of the awful things Trump has said and proposed over the course of his campaign.

 

As we've seen, the polling tends to trend AWAY from whoever is in the headline. Kaine effectively bypassed the spotlight to pass it on to the worst aspects of Trump's campaign, and Pence trying to deny they never happened. As long as the headlines stay on Trump, I'm happy.

 

As an aside, Pence seems like a reasonable, moderate choice by comparison to Trump or Clinton. He's really not. He's like, WAY far right. QMany is right that his virulent anti-LGBTQ past should be examined more. Well, and as I've said, his penchant for peddling anti-science views and other nonsense. Read up on his history a bit and see if you actually like him. I'm of the mind he could be disassembled fairly easy if thrust into the spotlight for his history.

I like you more and more each day Dude. Just felt like saying that.

 

 

Yes, Dude is a good guy - even if we come from different perspectives. You can disagree wtout being disagreeable.

You too TG. I like you too. And couldnt agree more with your comments above.

[Fru]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHqJGgdPe48

 

Kaine's 72 interruptions.

 

 

My take for what it is worth. Pence looked and sounded so much more presidential than Kaine. Kaine came across as a smug, arrogant, jerk. If Hillary or Trump don't last 4 years (for various reasons), I am much more comfortable with Pence's temperament (since that has been a part of the discussion this year) than Kaine. Pence came across as controlled, calm, knowledgeable and competition - which unfortunately for him - his running mate at the top of the ticket doesn't. Kaine sounded and looked like he didn't take his anxiety meds or his ADHD meds for some time. Hyper, tense, etc.

 

It's funny. I thought Pence came off as the smug, arrogant jerk. Calm? Sure. Knowledgeable? Hard to call him knowledgeable when he denies actual quotes and facts. I recall Kaine citing a labor statistic and Pence saying something along the lines of "Yeah you can throw out the numbers and stuff you want." Facts matter, whether you like it or not.

 

Kaine challenged him to defend Trump. Which Pence couldn't do, or chose not to do. I'm not sure which is worse.

 

Kaine interrupted plenty, but Pence also interrupted his fair share. Pence just seemed to make constant snarky comments "Career politician, God bless you for it" "I'm sure that played well in a focus group" "That's a good predone line" Maybe you enjoy hearing that, but it isn't adding content or substance which Pence had very little of in this debate.

 

Saying he won on style points is like saying Oregon beat NU because their uniforms were cooler. Scoreboard or in this case, facts say differently.

[zoogs]

I think Pence took the script from Biden's debate in 2012 and gave a strong performance in that regard.

 

The difference was Biden wasn't dismissing reality when he said "That's a bunch of malarkey." And Biden demonstrated his considerable foreign policy chops, while Pence dealt exclusively in rhetoric. "Strength, pure and simple."

 

But what's the ratio of the people who can tell, versus those who can't?

[TGHusker]

For all of the talk about Pence not being a center right but a far right candidate, lets not forget that Kaine

is equally to the left.

 

Two views on Kaine's Liberation Theology views gained during his life changing time in Honduras

 

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/the-honduras-tim-kaine-knew-30973/

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/us/politics/tim-kaine-honduras-jesuit.html?_r=2

https://www.catholicvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Kaine-Memo-Final2.pdf

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440709/

[Lil' Red]

For all of the talk about Pence not being a center right but a far right candidate, lets not forget that Kaine

is equally to the left.

 

Two views on Kaine's Liberation Theology views gained during his life changing time in Honduras

 

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/the-honduras-tim-kaine-knew-30973/

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/us/politics/tim-kaine-honduras-jesuit.html?_r=2

https://www.catholicvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Kaine-Memo-Final2.pdf

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440709/

No, those pieces don't definitively define his ideology. Kaine is center left and Pence is far right. 538 compared Kaine's and Pence's ideologies and put Kaine at about -40 on their scale which is middle of the road for recent Dem VP picks and put Pence at +60 which places him as the most conservative VP pick in recent history.

[QMany]

 

I'm actually surprised it was watched by that many.

[zoogs]

Pence's resolutely conservative bona fides are a strength for his camp, not a liability. You know, I think it's probably inaccurate to call that "far right", a term which carries its own, quite separate meaning. For all I would disagree with Pence about, these same things would probably be greeted enthusiastically by conservatives:

 

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/4/13162172/mike-pence-trump-vp-debate-abortion-lgbtq-culture-war-conservative

 

Kaine's left-wing bona fides? He doesn't have nearly as strong a case. Perhaps there are instincts there that tend more liberal but can't be expressed in a mostly conservative country. Here's a somewhat mixed bag of takes on Kaine's there-or-not liberal street cred:

 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/07/tim-kaine-vice-president-hillary-clinton-virginia-senate

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kaine-not-liberal-enough-just-ask-virginians/2016/07/24/ff5f6e2a-519c-11e6-bbf5-957ad17b4385_story.html

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/hillary-clinton-2016-vp-pick-tim-kaine-213997

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/kaine-gop-buds-226071

 

If he had it, I don't think it would be a bad thing for his camp, either. But he's no Bernie Sanders, nor Elizabeth Warren.

 

Lil' Red beat me to the punch; I think he summed it up very accurately.

[Whistlebritches]

This commercial from the Clinton team is the result of last nights debate. It's not a good look.

 

https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/783669207040946176

[BigRedBuster]

This commercial from the Clinton team is the result of last nights debate. It's not a good look.

 

https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/783669207040946176

Wow....I was waiting for that to come out.

 

You know....I can understand a candidate who plays loose with the facts on issues that are not easy to verify. BUT, to constantly deny saying stuff that it's so damn easy to go back and find the video....I just absolutely don't understand the concept. I also don't understand the idea people have in their head that get so excited and worked up to support and vote for these clowns.

[knapplc]

I also don't understand the idea people have in their head that get so excited and worked up to support and vote for these clowns.

Yeah. If you're excited to vote for either Trump or Clinton... you may have a problem.

[Fru]

This commercial from the Clinton team is the result of last nights debate. It's not a good look.

 

https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/783669207040946176

Tell me again how Pence "killed it"

[BigRedBuster]

Oh...yeah....and please oh please Trump supporters.....Please tell me once again how Clinton LIES and Trump and Pence tell it like it is and is all about the TRUTH!!!!!