JJ Husker Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I don't think that's true. Changing healthcare has been a Dem priority for a long time. It has also been a Good one, I think. The ACA required compromise and was essentially a conservative approach, because the alternative was doing nothing and that was way more politically viable. Except that that no Republicans voted for the ACA, so making it a conservative approach made no sense. The Dems had the votes to get ACA with a public option passed but went with a more conservative plan anyway. They did NOT have the votes to get the public option. Joe Lieberman voted against it because he represented a state that is heavily reliant on the insurance industry for their economy. He singlehandedly killed the public option because it needed only 1 more vote. I have to agree with Zoogs and disagree with El D regarding the rollout of these bills. The incompetence and tone deafness of the GOP is astounding. While the ACA of course wasn't perfect and didn't work for everyone, they at least had the foresight to work with major insurers, healthcare organizations, hospitals and the like to craft a bill they supported. Compare that to the GOP, who put together this flaming pile of crap in secrecy and was immediately hit with heavy criticism from both the Dems, conservative organizations, and major healthcare organizations/providers. They're criticizing the bill because they weren't consulted, and because frankly, it's not a very good bill. El D, one more question. Where are you reading about the $1500 credit per child? I haven't seen anything about that at all and I'm genuinely pretty curious. I think I misread it. It is in section 131 of the bill. I scanned it quickly the first time but now it appears what I mistook for a tax credit is actually just a credit against the tax imposed. It's just a friendly way to word that if you don't have creditable coverage then you will get taxed. So, it's not a straight tax credit. My bad. And please don't misunderatand, I am not claiming the dems have been as bad as the repubs regarding healthcare. They are many stages worse. My point was that neither side has focused on the most serious flaw of runaway costs. It's either too tough of an egg to crack or they simply have no desire or impetus to attempt it. I happen to think it is the latter. Both sides would rather make headlines appealing to their fringe bases rather than actually fixing the most broken component. I'm sure much if that has to do with lobbying interests and the fact the rich bastards we elect don't really have to worry about healthcare costs. Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 How would congress rein in healthcare costs? Wouldn't that require major oversight & regulation? Link to comment
zoogs Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Both sides would rather make headlines appealing to their fringe bases rather than actually fixing the most broken component. I'm sure much if that has to do with lobbying interests and the fact the rich bastards we elect don't really have to worry about healthcare costs. I don't think this is about "fringe bases" at all, but it does speak to lobbying power. It's about what problem you want to fix: better healthcare coverage, or lobbying interests that want government breaks instead of regulation. In this context, each party has been mounting a sensible fight for their goal. Some of Obama's advisers pushed for him to abandon the healthcare initiative entirely. It was a what, 15 month process? ... that still drew cries of being rammed through too quickly and then required six years of playing defense. I will say though, that I agree with all the critics who say single payer should have been in there. I just don't know if it was possible. They felt that this was the modest step towards UHC that was possible, and evidently even that was too radical for this country to sustain. So here we are. How would congress rein in healthcare costs? Wouldn't that require major oversight & regulation? Made me think of this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-wave-a-white-flag-on-health-care/2017/03/08/8f9e98f6-0365-11e7-b1e9-a05d3c21f7cf_story.html?utm_term=.7e9b3f5a8938 A not-unfair summary of the typical American voters view on health care might go like this: Give me a plan with abundant covered services and choice, and shift as much of the cost as possible onto someone else, while protecting the poor, but for heavens sake dont make it government-run. Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Remember the past six years, how furious conservatives were that Obamacare got "rammed down our throats" so quickly? Funny story.... 2 Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Think about this, though. Trump puts his name on EVERYTHING. Why doesn't he want his name on this bill? To wit: Daewoo Trump World, in South KoreaDonald J. Trump Foundation, based in New York, founded in 1988Donald J. Trump Signature Collection menswear line at Macy's (partnership ended in 2015)Donald J. Trump State Park, in New York, located on land donated by Trump to the state in 2006Donald Trump Jr., his firstborn child.Donald Trump's Real Estate Tycoon, a video gameElite Tower, formerly known as Trump Plaza Tower, and Trump Elite Tower, Ramat Gan, Tel Aviv, IsraelRiverside South, Manhattan (Trump Place), Manhattan (de-branded November 2016)TD Trump DeutschlandThe Trump Building, in New York CityTour de Trump, a bicycle race held in 1989 and 1990Trump Entertainment ResortsTrump FootlongTrump fragrancesTrump Golden Ale now renamed Chinga Tu Pelo beerTrump Golf Links (Ferry Point, New York)Trump HomeTrump Ice – served at Trump propertiesTrump Institute, a separate business licensed but not owned by TrumpTrump International Golf Club (Dubai)Trump International Golf Club (West Palm Beach)Trump International Golf Club Puerto RicoTrump International Golf Links and Hotel IrelandTrump International Golf Links, ScotlandTrump International Hotel – Las Vegas, NevadaTrump International Hotel & Residence (Phoenix)Trump International Hotel and TowerTrump International Hotel and Tower (Chicago)Trump International Hotel and Tower (Dubai)Trump International Hotel and Tower (Honolulu)Trump International Hotel and Tower (New Orleans)Trump International Hotel and Tower (New York City)Trump International Hotel and Tower (Toronto)Trump International Hotel and Tower (Vancouver)Trump International Hotel Las VegasTrump International Hotel Washington, D.C., also known as Old Post Office PavilionTrump MagazineTrump Model Management, formerly known as "Donald Trump Models"Trump MortgageTrump National Doral MiamiTrump National Golf Club (Bedminster, New Jersey)Trump National Golf Club (Charlotte, North Carolina)Trump National Golf Club (Colts Neck, New Jersey)Trump National Golf Club (Hudson Valley, New York)Trump National Golf Club (Jupiter, Florida)Trump National Golf Club (Los Angeles)Trump National Golf Club (Philadelphia)Trump National Golf Club (Washington, D.C.)Trump National Golf Club WestchesterTrump Network, Direct Selling Vitamin CompanyTrump Ocean Club International Hotel and Tower, in Panama CityTrump Ocean Resort Baja MexicoTrump Office, a line of office chairs launched in 2007Trump Parc and Trump Parc East, ManhattanTrump Park Avenue, ManhattanTrump PlazaTrump Plaza (Jersey City)Trump Plaza (New Rochelle)Trump Plaza (New York City)Trump Plaza (West Palm Beach)Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (Atlantic City, New Jersey)Trump ProductionsTrump ShuttleTrump SoHo, hotel condominium in New York CityTrump SteaksTrump Taj Mahal, in Atlantic City, New Jersey (no longer owned, operated or administered by the Trump Organization)Trump ToiletriesTrump Tower (White Plains), White Plains, New YorkTrump Tower Baku, AzerbaijanTrump Tower Europe, Stuttgart, GermanyTrump Tower Manila (also known as Trump Tower at Century City), Makati City, Philippines (in development)Trump Tower Mumbai, India (in development)Trump Tower, New York CityTrump Towers (Sunny Isles Beach), Sunny Isles Beach, FloridaTrump Towers Charlotte, Charlotte, North CarolinaTrump Towers Istanbul, TurkeyTrump Towers Pune, India (in development)Trump Turnberry (Scotland)Trump University, owned mostly by Trump (renamed The Trump Entrepreneur Initiative in 2010)Trump VodkaTrump WineryTrump World Golf Club (Dubai)Trump World MagazineTrump World Tower, in New York CityTrump: The GameTrump's Castle/Trump Marina EDIT - I put the obnoxiously long list of Trump-named things in the spoiler box. 1 Link to comment
Cdog923 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Pardone my French, but why the f#*k are we defunding Planned Parenthood? Because killing babies is abhorrent Because that's what Planned Parenthood does with federal money. Link to comment
Fru Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 War is abhorrent Torture is abhorrent 30k gun deaths a year is abhorrent Taking healthcare away from people is abhorrent Destroying the environment is abhorrent You "Pro Lifers" seem to be "Pro Life" when it's convenient. 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Thanks Sanders - I've taken a bit of a step back because I realized that I'm biased on this debate. But indeed state/national programs have very specific criteria, payment and timing of payment lined up and it makes things easy. There's no debate. The challenge is sometimes there is also no flexibility in diagnosis and coverages. The insurers are the ones I find most distasteful in all of this - their reimbursement dollar negotiation with physician groups and hospitals is shameful. To (as a practitioner) decide you can only take some insurance rather than all is nothing more than a survival tactic. It's also why the ACA was good. Without a requirement of all (young and healthy as well as old and needing more care) having to have insurance there's just no way to insure that the pools have enough in them to cover all. The healthy young folks who choose to gamble and not insure really impact the availability of funds to care for our sicker friends. I can't speak to hospitals making a profit at the cost of the people - that is wrong. But I can say that hospitals profit and doctors profit are not related (or minimally so). So....you're upset that an insurance company is refusing to pay whatever a Dr. or Hospital wants? Not necessarily - I'm upset by the fact that an insurance company who is willing to pay more will get a contract. What physician organization or hospital will turn away more money for a procedure or coded office visit? It's coming from the Ins figures not demands from the doctors. In my world at least the decisions aren't made by doctors trying to charge more for an office visit or blood draw. It's decided by the insurance contracts which determine how many patients in a plan they get who are healthy vs. unhealthy - that's why some plans in the past have been dropped by a PHO, they are full of high risk patients and they put a PHO in the hole. Then you have to count on the more healthy (typically commercial) plans where you've got healthy pts and the pool can cover the mess. I'm not sure I'm communicating any of this clearly here - admittedly I've got a bunch of work in front of me and I'm tuning in and out - so apologies in advance if this doesn't read clearly. Sometime when you have more time, you will need to explain more. I'm not following you at all. Link to comment
Making Chimichangas Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Pardone my French, but why the f#*k are we defunding Planned Parenthood? Because killing babies is abhorrent Because that's what Planned Parenthood does with federal money. I have a solution: Introduce a federal law requiring all the "pro-life" Republicans to adopt all the babies who would have been aborted. If men could get pregnant, not only would abortion be legal; but it would be fully funded under every health care plan and there would be an abortion clinic on almost every street corner. 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Pardone my French, but why the f#*k are we defunding Planned Parenthood? Because killing babies is abhorrent Because that's what Planned Parenthood does with federal money. I have a solution: Introduce a federal law requiring all the "pro-life" Republicans to adopt all the babies who would have been aborted. If men could get pregnant, not only would abortion be legal; but it would be fully funded under every health care plan and there would be an abortion clinic on almost every street corner. The attitude that the fight against abortion is nothing more than a bunch of men wanting to control women needs to stop. I am pro life BECAUSE the women in my life convinced me. I was pro choice through college. That line of thinking does nothing to further any discussion. I am pro life but I don't support Republicans in their faux fight against it and their dream of defunding Planned Parenthood. The entire issue on both sides has gotten way out of control. 1 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Most pro-lifers are pro life because they think the woman is making the decision for 2 people, therefore it's not a woman's rights issue. But the problem with the senate/house making any kind of decision on it is they are made up of 20% women. They have no idea what it's like to be pregnant, have a baby, or make a decision on whether to have a baby, and many are probably ignorant of health issues. I've known men who get freaked out just by the mention of menstruation. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 its also a faulty thought that if it were 100% women that we would be in a different argument. Link to comment
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