wutthewut Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 This is what happens when the 'gov is bad' position is taken to its extreme. Govt is an institution which is to be used for the common good- infrastructure, defense/military, common trade/treaties, health and welfare of the nation to name a few. To preserve life, liberty, and property. That's it. Prior to 1913, there was no federal income tax. Yet somehow we still had roads. I wonder how that happened... Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 This is what happens when the 'gov is bad' position is taken to its extreme. Govt is an institution which is to be used for the common good- infrastructure, defense/military, common trade/treaties, health and welfare of the nation to name a few. To preserve life, liberty, and property. That's it. Prior to 1913, there was no federal income tax. Yet somehow we still had roads. I wonder how that happened... Did you have a typo there? Link to comment
Landlord Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 To preserve life that sounds fake but ok 2 Link to comment
Landlord Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Prior to 1913, there was no federal income tax. Yet somehow we still had roads. I wonder how that happened... LOL are you kidding? In 1913 there were .004 percent the amount of cars there are today, and they looked like this Further, your claim isn't even true. 5 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Pretty sure we had roads because people drove in the same places which created wheel ruts. Link to comment
wutthewut Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 On why healthcare is not a right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr4TZMPmbuw Link to comment
deedsker Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Ugh, The National Road, in many places known as Route 40, was built between 1811 and 1834 to reach the western settlements. It was the first federally funded road in U.S. history. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson believed that a trans-Appalachian road was necessary for unifying the young country. In 1806 Congress authorized construction of the road and President Jefferson signed the act establishing the National Road. It would connect Cumberland, Maryland to the Ohio River. In 1811 the first contract was awarded and the first 10 miles of road built. By 1818 the road was completed to Wheeling and mail coaches began using the road. By the 1830s the federal government conveyed part of the road's responsibility to the states through which it runs. Tollgates and tollhouses were then built by the states, with the federal government taking responsibility for road repairs. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/back0103.cfm Back to healthcare anyone? 4 Link to comment
wutthewut Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Prior to 1913, there was no federal income tax. Yet somehow we still had roads. I wonder how that happened... LOL are you kidding? In 1913 there were .004 percent the amount of cars there are today, and they looked like this Further, your claim isn't even true. My apologies, 1909 technically. Previously in 1861, a 3% tax was put in place by Abe Lincoln to fund the civil war, then repealed in 1871 Link to comment
knapplc Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Infrastructure and interstate commerce have changed just a little bit since 1909. 1 Link to comment
zoogs Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 "1913" mythos: https://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/1hyx24/up_until_1913_americans_kept_100_of_their/ Infrastructure and interstate commerce have changed just a little bit since 1909. So has our tolerance for how things were done back then. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Infrastructure and interstate commerce have changed just a little bit since 1909. Hmm...some things are still the same. The Cubs are still winning the World Series. 2 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 This is what happens when the 'gov is bad' position is taken to its extreme. Govt is an institution which is to be used for the common good- infrastructure, defense/military, common trade/treaties, health and welfare of the nation to name a few. To preserve life, liberty, and property. That's it. Prior to 1913, there was no federal income tax. Yet somehow we still had roads. I wonder how that happened... Haha, property. That's rich. There is no unalienable right to property or even ownership. In fact, it's the law and enforcement of those laws by the government that allows ownership. You know that income tax is not the only kind of tax, right? And as others pointed out, the government built roads going back to the Founding Fathers. And before that the previous governments paid to build the roads. On why healthcare is not a right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr4TZMPmbuw That video doesn't even examine it's own premise: that liberty is a right but health is a commodity. How does the liberty work if you're dead? And it fails on the same things that always doom the pure libertarian/no government ideology: the entire history of civilization. We formed civilization because life is better when we work together as a society. All you have to do to see that little/no government isn't the answer is to look around the world at all the great places that don't have a big/strong government: they're typically dominated by war lords, foreign invaders, mob/mafia, and human suffering. You can even follow our own history in the western US where the people wanted government to establish stability, safety, and guarantee rights. If we are going to have a society, then we need to contribute the common good. If there isn't a set of enforced rules that describe how everyone is going to contribute, then we have a prisoner's dilemma where we might not cooperate even though it is in our best interest as a society to do so. 3 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I actually had a conversation with a loyal libertarian that firmly believed the entire US interstate system was horrible because it was nothing more than a socialistic system that tore down the libertarian ideals the US was built on. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 CBO estimates Sanders' Safe and Affordable Rx Drug Importation Act would save $6.8B over the next decade Intriguing. 4 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Sen Graham says to block grant the health care money to the states - they are closest to the people and can run the program better than the Feds. This would be an amendment 10 approach in my opinion. http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/lindsey-graham-healthcare-governors/2017/08/01/id/805055/ Senate Republicans should be "politically horsewhipped" if they don't deliver a plan for healthcare reform to the American people, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said Tuesday, while discussing his own idea for a plan he says could succeed. "The best ideas on the table haven't even been tried," Graham told Fox News' "Fox and Friends" program. "We're not moving on. We're going to listen to President [Donald] Trump; we're going to "git-r-done." Graham said his idea is quite simple — instead of trying to redo Obamacare in Washington, turn to the nation's governors and let them handle it. "Take all the money you would spend in Washington on healthcare, block grant it back to the states, and let them design healthcare systems closer to your family," said Graham. "This would empower state choice; it would empower consumers." Graham said senators will do away with employer and individual mandates, as well as repealing the medical device tax, but take the other taxes and return them in block grants. "It's about $500 billion," he said, and governors have told him that they will take care of their states better than Washington does. "We need to keep trying on healthcare," he said. "If we fail on healthcare, we're going to fail on taxes. We have never had a vote on this idea. We should have a new policy called block granting and we should have a new process so people can understand what we are actually doing." Graham said he has faith that his plan could cross the 50-vote threshold in the Senate. "I would hate to be a Republican who said to their constituents I don't want more money coming back to my state," said Graham. "Under Obamacare, four states get 40 percent of the money, California, New York, Massachusetts and Maryland. They are 20 percent of the population, they get 40 percent of the money. How do you justify that if you are in West Virginia? Under my plan, West Virginia gets 43 percent more dollars, more money, more flexibility." Meanwhile, Trump should take insurance subsidies away from members of Congress if they don't deliver on a healthcare plan, said Graham. "After 33 years in the military, I have healthcare through the military," said Graham. "I will be punished. Punish me in any way you think is appropriate if I can't fix your healthcare. You sent us up here, the American people, to repeal and replace Obamacare. This is the end of single payer healthcare, if you take the money and the power out of Washington." Link to comment
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