The Republican Utopia

[Fru]

Republicans: “Stop calling us bigots!”

 

 

[Making Chimichangas]

@TGHusker, I sincerely want to thank you for giving such a detailed and heartfelt response.  I actually got a little misty-eyed reading it.

 

It is interesting the point you make about how someone who doesn't have a father (in the loving, caring or literal sense) and how that can lead people down the path of non-belief.  I am not sure I believe that for everyone, but in my particular case...

 

Very briefly: My real father walked out on my mom before I was born.  There were a couple other guys in my mom's life while growing up, but none who were ever a real father figure.  Growing up I had Catholicism pushed on me by my step dad.  He meant well, I think, but it just didn't resonate with me.  The tipping point occurred when my step-father and I took a trip to western Nebraska.  He was a contractor and had a job to go to.  It was summer time and I was out of school so I went to work for his company for the summer.  Long story short, while living at home while going to high school (a Catholic HS btw) I stopped getting up to go to church on Sunday.  My step dad was always on my case about it.  So we're headed to western Nebraska for a job and about noon we stop at a restaurant for lunch.  After lunch we're leaving and he's backing up his truck.  In doing so he crunches this person's car door.  He gets out, looks at it, and says, "Well, I should go in and tell who ever owns this car I hit their door."  I nod.  (Keep in mind I'm 15 or 16 at this time.)  He proceeds to walk to the door of the restaurant, opens it slightly, and then turns around, tells me to get into the truck, and we proceed to leave.  It was at that moment that I thought: "You hypocritical, self-righteous, blankity blank."  I didn't say anything to him, but that moment, and his sheer hypocrisy, just crystalized in my mind that he talked a big game about being a good person and doing the right thing, but was a phony.  He's going to get on my case for not going to mass, but he's going to hit someone's car and then just leave without telling them? 

 

I went through the rest of high school, the Arny, and college basically being a Catholic.  But my discontent was steadily growing over the years.

 

I basically considered myself atheist for about the past 10 years.  Since then I've tried living my life by the creed, "Good without god."  I do what I can, as I am able to, to help those less fortunate--but I don't expect anything in return.  And I am certainly not rich either.

 

I guess my point in asking the original question was to just get an opinion on something that, quite often, I hear I am going to hell.

 

And regarding the larger Republican Utopia topic, sometimes I feel like certain people within the christian world would commit genocide on people like me if they could get away with it.  (In fairness, many secular Democrats are also not friendly to those like me either.)

 

Again, thank you for such a great response.

 

[Making Chimichangas]

5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I would like to answer this since, as a Christian, I feel very strongly about it.

 

I absolutely, without question, do NOT believe a parent disowning a child for something like this is what Christ taught us in loving and caring about other people.  It absolutely flies in the face of what Christ said and what he did with his actions.

 

Thank you for that answer.  It means more to me than what I can express with words.  And also to @TGHusker, thank you.  Your kind words really do mean substantially more than what I am able to convey here.

[Danny Bateman]

It's hard to believe but this guy could possibly win the GOP nomination for Senate in West Virginia. He's a coal baron fresh out of jail after he let safety lapse resulting in a mine collapse that killed 29 people.

 

And he's got campaign ads.

Part 1 here (scroll down).

 

Part 2 below:

 

 

[TGHusker]

16 hours ago, RedDenver said:

This might be the most actually utopian thing in this thread. That's for giving some of us hope that there's still good people out there.

 

There is no  utopia on this side of heaven. We all strive to make it that way in the best way we can.  However, I think that striving is because God has placed eternity in all of our hearts and the hope of something better.

 

Ecclesiastes 3:11 NIV

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

 

 

Quote

 

u·to·pi·a

yo͞oˈtōpēə/

noun

noun: Utopia; plural noun: Utopias; noun: utopia; plural noun: utopias

1. an imagined place or state of things in which everything is perfect. The word was first used in the book Utopia (1516) by Sir Thomas More.

 

1.  

[TGHusker]

11 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

@TGHusker, I sincerely want to thank you for giving such a detailed and heartfelt response.  I actually got a little misty-eyed reading it.

 

It is interesting the point you make about how someone who doesn't have a father (in the loving, caring or literal sense) and how that can lead people down the path of non-belief.  I am not sure I believe that for everyone, but in my particular case...

 

Very briefly: My real father walked out on my mom before I was born.  There were a couple other guys in my mom's life while growing up, but none who were ever a real father figure.  Growing up I had Catholicism pushed on me by my step dad.  He meant well, I think, but it just didn't resonate with me.  The tipping point occurred when my step-father and I took a trip to western Nebraska.  He was a contractor and had a job to go to.  It was summer time and I was out of school so I went to work for his company for the summer.  Long story short, while living at home while going to high school (a Catholic HS btw) I stopped getting up to go to church on Sunday.  My step dad was always on my case about it.  So we're headed to western Nebraska for a job and about noon we stop at a restaurant for lunch.  After lunch we're leaving and he's backing up his truck.  In doing so he crunches this person's car door.  He gets out, looks at it, and says, "Well, I should go in and tell who ever owns this car I hit their door."  I nod.  (Keep in mind I'm 15 or 16 at this time.)  He proceeds to walk to the door of the restaurant, opens it slightly, and then turns around, tells me to get into the truck, and we proceed to leave.  It was at that moment that I thought: "You hypocritical, self-righteous, blankity blank."  I didn't say anything to him, but that moment, and his sheer hypocrisy, just crystalized in my mind that he talked a big game about being a good person and doing the right thing, but was a phony.  He's going to get on my case for not going to mass, but he's going to hit someone's car and then just leave without telling them? 

 

I went through the rest of high school, the Arny, and college basically being a Catholic.  But my discontent was steadily growing over the years.

 

I basically considered myself atheist for about the past 10 years.  Since then I've tried living my life by the creed, "Good without god."  I do what I can, as I am able to, to help those less fortunate--but I don't expect anything in return.  And I am certainly not rich either.

 

I guess my point in asking the original question was to just get an opinion on something that, quite often, I hear I am going to hell.

 

And regarding the larger Republican Utopia topic, sometimes I feel like certain people within the christian world would commit genocide on people like me if they could get away with it.  (In fairness, many secular Democrats are also not friendly to those like me either.)

 

Again, thank you for such a great response.

 

Yes, hypocrisy is one of the man reasons people turn away from faith.  But in my old age, I realize that we are all hypocrites in some ways. We all have known of the right thing and yet fail to do it.  We all have fallen far short of the ideal (God's glory Romans 3:23). Yet I've received grace and forgiveness for my hypocrisy and I have to give the same to others.  Unforgiveness is the poison we swallow expecting the other person to die.  It isn't condoning what the other person has done but releasing them into a more righteous judgment than our own.  Only then can we get the poison out of our system and grow and live again.  Sometimes we are 'bitter towards God' for the same reason.  Someone died - a loved one for example, or God didn't meet 'my expectations' or assumptions on the way He should act on my behalf.  But that is a different discussion altogether. 

I want to answer your statement of "People Like Me" :

Jesus came for 'such like you' and me and any of us who can see our 'spiritual poverty'.  The proud, the arrogant, the religious - not so much -  he came for them too but normally they have to go through a deep, painful 'breaking process' to see their need - a process most resist and refuse to go through.  However, I think we are all proud to a certain degree - maybe self willed & we all need 'some breaking'.  God disciplines those who he loves - some of us he must really love a lot!.  

But for you, I give you Mark 2:17.  "People like Me" is specifically who He had in mind:

Good News Translation
Jesus heard them and answered, "People who are well do not need a doctor, but only those who are sick. I have not come to call respectable people, but outcasts."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
When Jesus heard this, He told them, "Those who are well don't need a doctor, but the sick do need one. I didn't come to call the righteous, but sinners."
 

I encourage you to read the Gospels again. But instead of concentrating on what formal 'religion' tells you as you read, concentrate on the words of Christ and the meaning behind them. Start with the Gospel of John (most personal of the gospels), Gospel of Mark presents more of the humanity side of Jesus (The Son of Man), the Gospel of Luke presents more of the divine side of Christ (Son of God) and Matthew shows more from a Jewish traditional side.   Then you might look at the book of 1John - explains more of God's love, forgiveness and how Christ is our advocate.  Ephesians explains the high view God has of us and Romans explains how we can overcome many struggles of life. 

Let me add: "Formal Religion" has its place and isn't to be rejected because of its formality. Christianity at its root however is a relationship between the person of faith and Jesus Christ.

Doing good works whether via religion or outside of religion isn't the cure for relationship with God. Commendable yes but they are not the thing that 'saves' us.  That is faith (trust) in Christ.

[TGHusker]

16 hours ago, Fru said:

Republicans: “Stop calling us bigots!”

 

 

The shocking part is that he led of poll of 18% of the repubs voting - in California of all places.  What has this party come to!!??

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

The shocking part is that he led of poll of 18% of the repubs voting - in California of all places.  What has this party come to!!??

I honestly am amazed at the Republican party anymore.  Sad.

[knapplc]

13 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

Thank you for that answer.  It means more to me than what I can express with words.  And also to @TGHusker, thank you.  Your kind words really do mean substantially more than what I am able to convey here.

 

Just yesterday I attended the funeral of a gay man who had committed suicide.  The service was a full Catholic Mass, held in the largest Catholic church in Lincoln. The homily was an assurance that we should take comfort in our loss that our friend was now in heaven. 

 

It's amazing to me that this was the message. A man who committed suicide, a gay man, receiving not exactly validation (the Church will never condone suicide), but that a life that would until very recently have been considered very sinful was instead celebrated by the Catholic Church.  That's progress.

[TGHusker]

7 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Just yesterday I attended the funeral of a gay man who had committed suicide.  The service was a full Catholic Mass, held in the largest Catholic church in Lincoln. The homily was an assurance that we should take comfort in our loss that our friend was now in heaven. 

 

It's amazing to me that this was the message. A man who committed suicide, a gay man, receiving not exactly validation (the Church will never condone suicide), but that a life that would until very recently have been considered very sinful was instead celebrated by the Catholic Church.  That's progress.

The pastor who 'officiated' my wedding said something that has always stuck wt me "There will be many in heaven we didn't expect to see (and the corollary - there will be those missing who we expected to be there) Why - because God looks on the heart.  The church too often looks at the outward. And when I say the church, I include myself - we as individuals make up the church.  As I quoted in my post above, Jesus didn't come for the self righteous or prideful he came for the 'least of these'.   I have to make sure I don't judge by the outward as well.  

 

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Just yesterday I attended the funeral of a gay man who had committed suicide.  The service was a full Catholic Mass, held in the largest Catholic church in Lincoln. The homily was an assurance that we should take comfort in our loss that our friend was now in heaven. 

 

It's amazing to me that this was the message. A man who committed suicide, a gay man, receiving not exactly validation (the Church will never condone suicide), but that a life that would until very recently have been considered very sinful was instead celebrated by the Catholic Church.  That's progress.

I go to a Catholic Church almost every I honestly don't remember a homily about gay people going to hell or how sinful homosexuality is.  My confirmation class had a night where they could ask the priest anything.  One question came up about God hating gays.  The priest was very adamant and to the point that God does not hate gay people and neither should we.

 

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I go to a Catholic Church almost every I honestly don't remember a homily about gay people going to hell or how sinful homosexuality is.  My confirmation class had a night where they could ask the priest anything.  One question came up about God hating gays.  The priest was very adamant and to the point that God does not hate gay people and neither should we.

 

 

I don't think so, either.  I think God's just a little jealous of their fashion sense.

[TGHusker]

2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I go to a Catholic Church almost every I honestly don't remember a homily about gay people going to hell or how sinful homosexuality is.  My confirmation class had a night where they could ask the priest anything.  One question came up about God hating gays.  The priest was very adamant and to the point that God does not hate gay people and neither should we.

 

Again, I go back to the politicization of too much of the church world.  Moral Majority got so much of the evangelical church away from it's true mission.  The repubs captured it and made it into a formula to 'plantation' a voter group.  So we got too many Christians looking for the boggy man and not enough showing love as they should. 

[TGHusker]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I don't think so, either.  I think God's just a little jealous of their fashion sense.

There is a guy in our office and he isn't gay but he dresses to the hilt even on casual Fridays.  He has the most amazing collection of shoes, watches, and all of the latest fashion stuff and yet he is a rough and tumble mountain biker, engineer.   I'm so square when it comes to fashion- they named the idea of a square after me.   So, I appreciate that diversity. 

[Big Red 40]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

I go to a Catholic Church almost every I honestly don't remember a homily about gay people going to hell or how sinful homosexuality is.  My confirmation class had a night where they could ask the priest anything.  One question came up about God hating gays.  The priest was very adamant and to the point that God does not hate gay people and neither should we.

 

Disclaimer:   I don’t hate gay people nor do I agree with this , but  I do remember this verse as the reason many religions think homosexuality is wrong . 

Leviticus 20:13 ►

King James Version If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.